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Solder Gemstones?


#1

At 10:45 PM 10/30/96 -0600, you wrote:

Dave Stephens wrote:

PS, someone mentioned stones that are solderable? Would that be jade
(nephrite?) and what others are safe? Dave

Diamond is one and there is a list of the heat tolerance of various
stones in GIA but don’t have a copy of it handy perhaps
someone else has it. You might check other texts for such a list
also…Gavin…

I am a Lapidary and have done extensive testing on heat treatment of
Gemstones.I don’t know how you’d get a stone to stick to anything,but
Sappire and Zircon can take well over 1,000 C and Tourmaline(clean that
is)can take
700-750C,goes white and clouds at 800.Your Quartzes can go 500C then at
higher temp opalize.Beryls same temperature,over 500C go white and
cloud.Garnets are uneffected by the highest temperatures.Topaz will white
out at 200C.But will stay clear as high as you go.
This regards temperatures up to 1,000C.Seems to me,if you could tack the
stones into the setting,it would be a lot quicker and easier,but would’nt
the solder reflect inside the stone?And also,you’d probably scorch and
smear a film over the facets,so they would have to be repolished.Polishing
a stone in a mounting is difficult,but do-able on the crown,but the
pavillion?? Impossible.
Not to mention what you’d do to coloration of stones with all that heat.
You’d induce color changes,even if the stone stayed intact.Or destroy color,
all irradiation induced color change reverts at max 500F.
I think some lady is going to punch you in the nose when she gives you a
nice dark Amethyst and you hand her back a Citrine.You gonna make my Green
Beryl-Blue.I’m going to bring you the finest Gem Indicolite and you return
to me Green.
Did not even discuss all the stones you are going to crackle.Even at
what I called safe temperatures you are at great risk heating a
stone.Stones have like pores,like in your skin.and these pores can be
filled with microscopic liquid.
You’ve seen the moving water bubbles in Quartz,etc.That’s the same thing on
a grand scale.Crystals can grow,stop,then grow again,leaving space.This
space expands and contracts on heating.Bang!you’ve crackled Mrs Big Bucks’s
stone.Now your for it.

                       Mark Liccini

 LICCINI

Gemstone Rough Dealers since 1970 U.S.MAIL
E-Mail: @Mark_Liccini1 224 7th St.#2B
http://www.LICCINI.com Jersey City,N.J.07302
Voice Mail/Fax: 201-795-1115


#2

Mark Liccini wrote:

At 10:45 PM 10/30/96 -0600, you wrote:

Dave Stephens wrote:

====

PS, someone mentioned stones that are solderable? Would that be jade
(nephrite?) and what others are safe? Dave

Diamond is one and there is a list of the heat tolerance of various
stones in GIA but don’t have a copy of it handy perhaps
someone else has it. You might check other texts for such a list
also…Gavin…

I am a Lapidary and have done extensive testing on heat treatment of
Gemstones.I don’t know how you’d get a stone to stick to anything,but
Sappire and Zircon can take well over 1,000 C and Tourmaline(clean that
is)can take
700-750C,goes white and clouds at 800.Your Quartzes can go 500C then at
higher temp opalize.Beryls same temperature,over 500C go white and
cloud.Garnets are uneffected by the highest temperatures.Topaz will white
out at 200C.But will stay clear as high as you go.
This regards temperatures up to 1,000C.Seems to me,if you could tack the
stones into the setting,it would be a lot quicker and easier,but would’nt
the solder reflect inside the stone?And also,you’d probably scorch and
smear a film over the facets,so they would have to be repolished.Polishing
a stone in a mounting is difficult,but do-able on the crown,but the
pavillion?? Impossible.
Not to mention what you’d do to coloration of stones with all that heat.
You’d induce color changes,even if the stone stayed intact.Or destroy color,
all irradiation induced color change reverts at max 500F.
I think some lady is going to punch you in the nose when she gives you a
nice dark Amethyst and you hand her back a Citrine.You gonna make my Green
Beryl-Blue.I’m going to bring you the finest Gem Indicolite and you return
to me Green.
Did not even discuss all the stones you are going to crackle.Even at
what I called safe temperatures you are at great risk heating a
stone.Stones have like pores,like in your skin.and these pores can be
filled with microscopic liquid.
You’ve seen the moving water bubbles in Quartz,etc.That’s the same thing on
a grand scale.Crystals can grow,stop,then grow again,leaving space.This
space expands and contracts on heating.Bang!you’ve crackled Mrs Big Bucks’s
stone.Now your for it.

                               Mark Liccini
         LICCINI

Gemstone Rough Dealers since 1970 U.S.MAIL
E-Mail: mark@LICCINI.com 224 7th St.#2B
http://www.LICCINI.com Jersey City,N.J.07302
Voice Mail/Fax: 201-795-1115

orchid@ganoksin.com

I think we were writing about soldering near the stones and which
stones need to be removed to allow for repairs etc…Good advice is that
if there is a flaw visible under 4X magnification or less then don’t
heat it regardless of what it is…Solder will stick to diamonds if the
stone is heated to the flow point of the solder…I do usually remove
diamonds larger than 10-15 points usually retip prongs holding any
diamond smaller with the stone in place…If you heat a stone make sure
you don’t cool it too quickly as it will shatter in some cases.These
repairs on rings with diamonds are best learned from an experienced
jeweler in person…G.Chando


#3

Rule of Thumb . . I thought was; Red, White, and Green… meaning Ruby,
Diamond, and Emerald??? … else remove them from their setting???

What say?
Jim

At 06:17 AM 10/31/96 -0500, you wrote:


#4

Dave Stephens wrote:

PS, someone mentioned stones that are solderable? Would that be jade
(nephrite?) and what others are safe? Dave

Mark & Chando both responed with very good advice!

In todays world of treated, oiled & fracture filled stones the safest way to
handle any solder job near a stone/s is to protect the stone with one of the
commercial heat protectors (Kool Jewel etc) or one of your own making that YOU
KNOW works & don’t solder near any stone you can’t replace immedeatly with one
from your own stock (at your expense). That good reputation you’ve worked so
hard to develope can go down the tube in a second!

Dave


#5

Jim Chambers wrote:

Rule of Thumb . . I thought was; Red, White, and Green… meaning Ruby,
Diamond, and Emerald??? … else remove them from their setting???

Whoa there Jim, the day you try heating on an emerald will be a sorry
day indeed! Sapphires are cool though. Red, White and Blue, mon.


#6

.Solder will stick to diamonds if the

stone is heated to the flow point of the solder.

WHAT!?? I didn’t know that. Has anyone seen this happen?

.I do usually remove


#7

David Armstrong wrote:

.Solder will stick to diamonds if the

stone is heated to the flow point of the solder.

WHAT!?? I didn’t know that. Has anyone seen this happen?

No way is this possible. I’ve never seen or heard of this and I’ve
heated on a jillion diamonds of all sizes. Incidentally, if you do heat
a diamond to the flow point of solder, you’ll likely glaze the finish of
the stone. Go in fast and hot and focus on the object being soldered.
As long as you coat the solution with boric acid/denatured alcohol
you’ll be fine. Mike


#8

And you can BURN/scorch diamonds as well . . . If you 'Ain’t got the bread,
and/or you aren’t sure that the Big ‘D" is or isn’t loaded with
’feather-filler’ . . . best take it out . . ‘Prongs are much cheaper that
Diamonds’ . . . so I’ve been advised . . . especially if the customer isn’t
aware that the stone use to be a member of the ‘bird’ species… lots of
clear feathers! . . .

Jim

At 06:33 PM 11/1/96 -0800, you wrote:


#9

Mike Rogers wrote:

David Armstrong wrote:

.Solder will stick to diamonds if the

stone is heated to the flow point of the solder.

WHAT!?? I didn’t know that. Has anyone seen this happen?

No way is this possible. I’ve never seen or heard of this and I’ve
heated on a jillion diamonds of all sizes. Incidentally, if you do heat
a diamond to the flow point of solder, you’ll likely glaze the finish of
the stone. Go in fast and hot and focus on the object being soldered.
As long as you coat the solution with boric acid/denatured alcohol
you’ll be fine. Mike

.I do usually remove

diamonds larger than 10-15 points usually retip prongs holding any
diamond smaller with the stone in place…If you heat a stone make sure
you don’t cool it too quickly as it will shatter in some cases.These
repairs on rings with diamonds are best learned from an experienced
jeweler in person…G.Chando

orchid@ganoksin.com

Okay you guys solder will stick to the diamond if you heat it to a point
past the flowpoint of the solder where the stone will glaze.When I say
stick I mean you could no doubt peel the solder off the stone with a
sharp knife or other tool but it does coat part of the stone and stay
put.I have not only seen it but have done it on a small stone just to
see if perhaps the one I had seen was somehow unique and it wasn’t.If I
had an excess of diamonds I would send each one of you one coated with
solder but sorry I don’t have a bunch of diamonds I want to ruin
today.If you try it on a small stone before you call me a liar you might
find what I say to be the truth…I had the same type of reaction once
when I said diamonds will float on water.In fact floatation is one way
the mines recover them.Yeah so who cares if you believe it or not?


#10

OOPS! I stand well corrected… Must have been thinking of the irish!

Thanks,
Jim

At 07:45 AM 11/1/96 -0800, you wrote:


#11

…I had the same type of reaction once

when I said diamonds will float on water.In fact floatation is one way
the mines recover them.Yeah so who cares if you believe it or not?

G. Gilmore, I’m not picking on you but, diamonds will not float on water
under normal surcustances. In mining they use a cyclonic seperator using
water to seperate the dregs from the rough. The specific gravity of diamond
is 3.somthing. In layman’s terms, diamonds are roughly 3 times heavier that
water. Therfore, they won’t float. Keep up the good work everyone. Dna >


#12

I like that,… A little knowledge with a little humor!!!

Jim

At 04:54 PM 11/6/96 -0800, you wrote:

…I had the same type of reaction once

when I said diamonds will float on water.In fact floatation is one way
the mines recover them.Yeah so who cares if you believe it or not?

G. Gilmore, I’m not picking on you but, diamonds will not float on water
under normal surcustances. In mining they use a cyclonic seperator using
water to seperate the dregs from the rough. The specific gravity of diamond
is 3.somthing. In layman’s terms, diamonds are roughly 3 times heavier that
water. Therfore, they won’t float. Keep up the good work everyone. Dna >

orchid@ganoksin.com

procedures


#13

David Armstrong wrote:

…I had the same type of reaction once

when I said diamonds will float on water.In fact floatation is one way
the mines recover them.Yeah so who cares if you believe it or not?

G. Gilmore, I’m not picking on you but, diamonds will not float on water
under normal surcustances. In mining they use a cyclonic seperator using
water to seperate the dregs from the rough. The specific gravity of diamond
is 3.somthing. In layman’s terms, diamonds are roughly 3 times heavier that
water. Therfore, they won’t float. Keep up the good work everyone. Dna >

orchid@ganoksin.com

orchid@ganoksin.com

It has nothing to do with specific gravity.It is true that the water
spider is heavier than the water but it can walk on the water.This is a
question of suface tension of solids and liquids not of
density…Gavin


#14

At 11:27 PM 11/6/96 -0600, you wrote:

David Armstrong wrote:

…I had the same type of reaction once

when I said diamonds will float on water.In fact floatation is one way
the mines recover them.Yeah so who cares if you believe it or not?

G. Gilmore, I’m not picking on you but, diamonds will not float on water
under normal surcustances. In mining they use a cyclonic seperator using
water to seperate the dregs from the rough. The specific gravity of diamond
is 3.somthing. In layman’s terms, diamonds are roughly 3 times heavier that
water. Therfore, they won’t float. Keep up the good work everyone. Dna >

It has nothing to do with specific gravity.It is true that the water
spider is heavier than the water but it can walk on the water.This is a
question of suface tension of solids and liquids not of
density…Gavin

I’m sorry to disagree with you, but it has everything to do with specific
gravity. How are you suggesting that they take advantage of surface tension?


#15

David Armstrong wrote:

At 11:27 PM 11/6/96 -0600, you wrote:

David Armstrong wrote:

…I had the same type of reaction once

when I said diamonds will float on water.In fact floatation is one way
the mines recover them.Yeah so who cares if you believe it or not?

G. Gilmore, I’m not picking on you but, diamonds will not float on water
under normal surcustances. In mining they use a cyclonic seperator using
water to seperate the dregs from the rough. The specific gravity of diamond
is 3.somthing. In layman’s terms, diamonds are roughly 3 times heavier that
water. Therfore, they won’t float. Keep up the good work everyone. Dna >

It has nothing to do with specific gravity.It is true that the water
spider is heavier than the water but it can walk on the water.This is a
question of suface tension of solids and liquids not of
density…Gavin

I’m sorry to disagree with you, but it has everything to do with specific
gravity. How are you suggesting that they take advantage of surface tension?

orchid@ganoksin.com

orchid@ganoksin.com

Take a handful of two point diamonds and throw them in a glass of
water…and call me in the morning///Gavin


#16

A*

Take a handful of two point diamonds and throw them in a glass of
water…and call me in the morning///Gavin

I will accept this exercise as true, but how is this used in the mining
process? I thought that was what we were talking about. Dna


#17

Are you dudes still at it!!!

Will the Great Mogal Float???

I can!!!

At 09:04 AM 11/8/96 -0800, you wrote:

A*

Take a handful of two point diamonds and throw them in a glass of
water…and call me in the morning///Gavin

I will accept this exercise as true, but how is this used in the mining
process? I thought that was what we were talking about. Dna

orchid@ganoksin.com

procedures