Self taught Vs Formal training

But in 1982, I was still being paid only 60 cents for every
dollar the less skilled, and seriously design challenged, men I
worked next to were making because I was a GIRL. The women's
movement has done very little to change this pheromone. Equal pay
for equal work does not exist in the jewelry industry. Not in the
US and not overseas Speaking as a male - I don't believe this is
literally true. 

I have to agree with Nanz. I started in the early seventies, and
there were only a handful of women in my trade school. When I first
worked in a retail store, many of the customers were skeptical that
this young woman was going to fix their jewelry-they were looking
for that little old man with the loupe attached to his glasses to
come out and speak with them. My line was that since I actually wore
the stuff, I had the advantage of knowing how it fit and how it
should work. That didnā€™t bring me any more in the way of a salary of
course. I know a number of women jewelers now who have started at a
similar point in time, and we all come from a common experience
here.

Melissa Veres, engraver

Anyone have any experience with the training at Rhode Island School
of Design?

Pretty expensive but it looks pretty goodā€¦

Craig
portal.creativecutgems.com

Hello James Miller

However, not yet as accomplished as you are, I too am a mostly
self-taught jewellery artist. Here in Canada it is hard to find a
goldsmith to apprentice with to learn more of the how to make
jewellery. I have been fortunate enough to take a bunch of individual
classes in various techniques but do not have a degree in anything.
As such, I can only teach Continuing Education courses at the local
colleges.

I am also the lowest on the totem pole, so to speak, I get to teach
the teen classes as they pay you less than for adult courses so many
of our, jewellery artists with art degrees will not lower themselves
to teach the kids. I have found that teaching the teens is a joy as
they have taught me how ā€˜to just let it happenā€™. I teach them basics
of techniques, safety, tools, and such so they can safely experiment.
They have reignited my creativity in some of my own designs. So
instead of worrying about what I cannot teach I instead concentrate
on giving them a good grounding in basics and safety and let my peers
with degrees teach the art. Maybe you could check something out like
that.

I know I wish you lived in Calgary, as I would scrub floors to earn
the money to be able to pick your brains for your well-earned
knowledge.

Regards
Karen Bahr - Karenā€™s Artworx
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Hey folks- got here late. I have been doing jewelry since I quit
practicing Law, about 30 years ago. I teach (one on one) and what I
tell my students is that I can teach them how to do techniques, but
I canā€™t give them experience. That comes with time and mistakes. In
the 70ā€™s, I read books, magazines and anything else I could to gain
knowledge. I RUINED a lot of silver, but eventually, I learned to
get it right. The same holds true today. Take a lot of seminars and
practice, practice, practice. Experience is the key. No school or
seminar can give you experience. Go for itā€¦

Daniel,

How did you get your training to be a jeweler?

Richard Hart

I don't require anyone else to tell me that their method is more
correct than what I have arrived at on my own over many many ounces
of trial and error, or carats of stones that had to be repolished
or recut or just tossed into a pile of rejects You seem to have made
my point for me. 

ā€œyour vanity and narcissismā€

Narcissism in one context is a clinical diagnosis by a mental health
professional, in another context it might be used as a defense,
possibly when someone is feeling helpless or out of control.

as does your invalidation of the writers of books..or the
assertion that they are somehow less than " right".I don't recall
seeing your name in any bibliographies

I had a discussion about this thread with an American who trained in
Germany, who has taught for 30 years, and has written two books, and
his opinion was that not all the in the books is accurate.

In Germany there is a process that is similar to getting a Phd. in
America. Classes, hands on experience, studying design, learning the
basics, an internship or apprenticeship, which resulting in a
knowledgeable individual that can be hired and with more experience
and training that person can go on their own and be a qualified
goldsmith.

First- dentists, and Md's are a different realm than a creative
application, and one would expect that they would indeed attend
school.

I believe this is a slight, as dentists and doctors can be creative.
Especially plastic surgeons. I have no idea why formal education
would be a disadvantage when someone is working with expensive
materials that can be damaged or ruined, especially when said items
might belong to someone else. It is just a fact that formal education
can result in a level of experience and knowledge that can enable an
individual to get employment that they could not get without
training.

People on this forum question how to get a job with a jeweler, and
they usually do not have a level of knowledge or skill that makes
them hireable. This means that the education system is not producing
people with the skills that are necessary to be successful. Who wants
to hire someone that took 30 years to self teach themselves? Does not
sound like a team player.

Learning on your own is admirable. But if you want to get somewhere
quicker, with more tools, be able to start earning more money sooner,
to know what is the right way to do things, education is the way
regardless of what the subject is.

I know that some teachers are better than others. Perhaps there would
be better teachers in the U.S. if there was a education system for
metalsmithing like they have in Europe. Result would be people who can
gain employment after training, which I believeis the result of
formal training in Europe.

I would further pose a question. Are there more hack jewelers that
are self trained or more hack jewelers that come out of formal
training. It is simple, one cannot do things right unless they know
what is right. With formal education there is a greater chance of
success faster.

Over 30 years I have seen a lot of work by self taught jewelers. I
politely ask where they learned their craft. They say proudly they
are self taught. Duh!

One sign of narcissism might be who writes the most about themselves,
what they did, and who said what about them.

ā€œItā€™s good to be king, if just for a whileā€¦ā€ Tom Petty

Richard Hart

Although I have trade recognition being a "Freeman of the
WorshipfulCompany of Goldsmiths" and a "Fellow of the Institute
ofProfessional Goldsmiths", I do not apparently have the
qualificationsto teach my trade. I was told by the education
official that I wouldhave to attend a college myself to obtain a
qualification that wouldenable me to teach something that I have
been doing successfully forthe past 46 years. In my time I have
made items for royalty all overthe world. I have won awards for my
skills. I am regarded as a highquality craftsman by my peers. But I
am not regarded as qualified toteach. 

I usually donā€™t answer when I have comments that I believe might
remotely step on toes but I have to say that I think it is the same
way in the United States as described above.

I am a registered pharmacist (in addition to being a
silver/goldsmith, self-taught). I spent 5 years at the University of
Texas getting the required degreeā€“then I learned how to be a
pharmacist when I started practicing.

I have always thought that ability means nothing here in the U.S.
but credentials mean everything! Somehow the colleges have their
ā€œlegal bluffā€ in place. You canā€™t be considered competent to do
anything unless you have a college education in that field. The sad
thing is that college is a legal requirement but in no way guarantees
competence.

Christians, no matter how full of faith, would never believe in
Jesus Christ if he suddenly appeared on earth now and began healing
people. In spite of the obvious healings, there is still the law.
Whereā€™s his license to practice medicine? He would meet with a
treatment similar to the first time he came here. In spite of
whatever evidence of good results, there are a lot of natural healers
that have been prosecuted simply because they are not credentialed.

Why isnā€™t there some process to PROVE competence in addition to or
instead of the required college credits? Donā€™t say, ā€œthere isā€“itā€™s
the board exams.ā€ All an exam proves is the ability to pass a test.

While I managed a pharmacy one time I had a PharmD (doctor of
pharmacy which requires a PhD) working for me. My technicians turned
to her for advice on weight loss. She weighed nearly 300 pounds!! It
is laughable how we turn to people with credentials rather than to
people who KNOW how to do whatever it is they are seeking to
do/learn.

ā€œKnowing how to doā€ and ā€œbeing able to doā€ are not necessarily the
same thing. I seek help from people who are doing well what I want to
be able to doā€“that is the only credential I need.

J. S. (Sue) Ellington
http://www.jsellington.com

Anyone have any experience with the training at Rhode Island
School of Design? 

Only very indirectly. A talented young woman who took jewelry
classes from me went off to school there. When she came back, she had
become a product designer (which can pay quite well, and has, Iā€™m
pretty sure, no sexist bias) and doesnā€™t have time to make jewelry
anymore. She misses getting her hands on metal, but sheā€™s earning a
living in an arguably creative fieldā€¦

Noel

When I began my interest in the world of gems I was at a loss for a
teacher. I recall Dr. Dake, ā€˜The Minerologist Maginineā€™ publishing
articles on how to build your own equipment. There was little
available at the time. Dr Dake was source for me in the fifties. Gem
cutting was just coming out of itā€™s secret shrouds, as were
goldsmithing and silversmithing drawing away from the traditional
and guarded ā€˜apprenticeā€™ approach.

My silvesmith teacher was taught, as an apprentice, by a German
precious metals smithā€“a ā€œGuildā€ member, no less, who had immigrated
from Germany after WWII.

Brave soul she, she had searched him out and asked to be taught. I
recall her saying she spent many hours hammering before she was
allow to move on to the next step in fabrication. Fortunatly she
didnā€™t have us do that! (we were just a handful of students in her
basement.) When one of us reached a place where we deviated from the
more rigid formality of her trainingā€”we were no longer her student.
She was always there, however, with suggestions that could aid us in
launching into more exploration on our own. She shared her 'shopā€™
equipment and showed us how to build or make some of the tools
needed. None of us had much money in those days.

There werenā€™t really any academic insitutions offering jewelry making
as a college course at the time that I know of.(But I donā€™t know
everything!) The day of the Rock Hound dawned and many Rock Hound
Clubs finally got to gether and began to have classes. I recall
having a class from Glenn Frost in San Diego, at at the club there.
This was years laterā€“I wanted to cast in gold and he was a willing
teacher volunteering there.

I see it as unfortunate that the many years of working experience of
many of us older cutters and smiths is not honored or made use of by
the educational system. I note that one is considered more qualified
if they have that piece of paper. I have a couple of GIA certs, but
that didnā€™t make me a gem Cutter or a precious metals smithā€“that is
another story.

I remember John Sinkansis, in San Diegoā€“I wonder if his books would
be refused by our current educational administrators?k He did
magnificant work in his devotion to field of gems. What about the
other founding 'fathers and motherā€™s in our profession? Seems a
shame, doesnā€™t it? There are many among us who have shared their
knowledge and experience through the years. I am no longer am able
to do thatā€“but I respect and honor those whose years of work in this
field could be a wellspring of learning and creativity for the ones
out there who have a desire to join us in this magic world of gems
and jewelry.

jyv

Richard,

When I was 15 I went to work for a guy who did all silver work,
mostly handmade and had some unique ideas about how to mass produce
hand made stuff. When I was 19 I moved to Massachusetts to go to
college part time and I needed a way to earn some money so I set up a
bench and started wholesaling my own silver jewelry to local stores.
I dropped out of college after a year because I was too busy selling
jewelry.

I am entirely self taught as far as gold work, faceted stone setting
(the guy I had worked for didnā€™t do this until well after I had left
his employ), platinum, etc. Most of the time I learned how to do
stuff by just doing it. Occasionally I read books to look for new
techniques but I wasnā€™t very patient with most other peopleā€™s methods
so I simply developed my own. (As it happens a lot of them were
developed by other people too, but it was easier and quicker to just
figure it out on my own then to look through a hundred different
books or try to find some class that would cost me thousands to
attend.)

I confess to having taken a one week course at Kulicke Starke when I
was fairly young. They had a hard time with me because I knew I only
had one week and I wasnā€™t patient enough with what I perceived to be
the rather tedious processes they went through so I pushed them to
just let me see all of their techniques as quickly as possible. I
came out of it with an appreciation for high karat gold and
granulation but havenā€™t ever used their somewhat lengthy drawn out
methods to accomplish what I want.

People would come to my store and say they wanted something. I would
do it. Didnā€™t matter if I had ever done it before. Iā€™d just keep
trying until it worked. The first platinum work I did was done that
way. Someone came in and said they wanted some of my gold bands in
platinum. So I read that working temps were high (and to use eye
protection) and that most of the time platinum was fused, instead of
soldered (at least in those days before some of the great new
platinum solders had been developed) and I simply went ahead and did
it. Trial and error. One of the best teachers. I started doing
repairs for customers when I didnā€™t have a clue about what I was
doing. Want to learn really, really quickly how to do things right?
Try that. You screw up and youā€™ve got one miserable customer on your
hands.

Unfortunately I see so many young (and often not so young too)
people today who want to have it all laid out for them on a platter.
They want someone to show them exactly how something is done and what
processes to use. What kind of fun is that?? So my advice is: Be
hungry and in need of paying your own living expenses. Read a couple
of books (but donā€™t take anything they say for granted). Go to a
couple of museums and look at what the ancient Egyptians and
Etruscans didā€”without electricity or ANY of the tools we take for
granted. Then go sit at your bench and TRY stuff.

But, having said all of this, when it comes to gemology, that is a
different story. For that you need to go to school. I canā€™t tell you
how much Iā€™ve earned from my GG from the GIA. There are areas where
formal training is definitely a necessity.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140

1 Like
Anyone have any experience with the training at Rhode Island
School of Design? 

My son went to RISD as a painter. RISD is a college, not a trade
school. Itā€™s education level is college level. It is an exceedingly
good college, has stiff entrance requirements and yes, it is
expensive. A degree from RISD can go a long way in the art world. I
have met a few people who have come out of the jewelry program. Some
of them have become quite successful designer/jewelers. Some of the
others have no clue how to actually make jewelry, but are great
artists. As with any program it depends on the commitment of the
individual as to what they take out of it and how much they are
willing to learn on their own. Again, if you want to enter the art
world, itā€™s probably one of the top 3-4 art colleges in the US. My
son, incidentally is doing incredibly well after only two years out
thereā€“earning a great living, working as an artistā€™s assistant to
an internationally known artist, and selling his own work too. So
thereā€™s some proof that it does work.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140

karen,

do not denigrate what you are doing. working with young people in a
supportive environment is one of the most loving, important things
that a sentient being can provide. iā€™ve been associated w/ the San
Francisco Rec. and Park Dept, as well as the Richmond Art center for
over 38 years. pay? could have more hoursā€¦good benefitsā€¦health,
pensionā€¦i hear that your health care system works very
wellā€¦the art studio that i work out of is in golden gate
parkā€¦i am blessed and so are youā€¦

you can teach technique, safety, and composition IE. design as a
unified wholeā€¦at any level, with any ageā€¦good technique can only
make a stellar piece smile and shineā€¦a piece w/ no soul and bad
bones canā€™t be resurrected by the best schmuck on the planet. you
schmucks out there might want to take me on about this last
statementā€¦

cheer upā€¦ you happen to be located in one of the best places in
the universe for pursuing a higher level of metal arts
applicationsā€¦look up CHARLES LEWTON-BRAINā€¦nowā€¦he teaches out of
calgaryā€¦he was one of the brainsā€¦that was so badā€¦in getting
this forum of the groundā€¦having been given the opportunity to take
one of workshops in san francisco.thanks allanā€¦i can say that you
wlll not find a more inspirational instructorā€¦anyplace, anywhere.

keep on trucking
om shalom

about learning with fine silver. In the only ā€œadvancedā€ (i.e.
post-bezel-setting) class I took, the teacherā€“who had been setting
stones ā€œin the industryā€ for something like 30 yearsā€“taught channel
setting like this. We were each handed an ingot of fine silver and
expected to roll it into the pieces used to construct the box. (I,
using black magic, managed to solder my extremely dirty copper
bracing piece to my box. And that was before I even picked up one of
those burs I could barely see. I concluded that channel setting and I
were not meant to be.)

Lisa Orlando
Albion, CA, US

The narcissism word is being thrown around a bit much. Research
Narcissistic personality disorder, it might shed a little light on
the use of this word.

How I wish you were in my area, James. I had the opposite
experience. I work full-time at my own business and wanted to
increase my own jewelry skills by taking some formal classes. I took
one class at Revere, and loved it, but San Francisco is not exactly
close to St Paul, Minnesota. So I looked for classes closer to home.
I found a jewelry techniques course at one of my local colleges. But
apparently they have a problem understanding someone who just wants
to attend courses as a working adult - i.e., not full-time. I was
turned down for the program - not told that I was turned down, but
just not accepted for the program even though I have all of the
necessary credentials for the coursework and college admittance. I
guess Iā€™m really annoyed by the lack of understanding of the college
and its program head (who is a member of the Ganoksin body of
readers), and Iā€™ll just continue to save up and take classes at
Revere and New School and Metalwerx when I can afford them. I would
love to take courses - any courses, from you. As a craftsperson, the
quality of your creations are my personal achievement goals.

Hi Melissa, Nanzā€¦

Stuff is changingā€¦

Took a one day soldering intensive at University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee this Summerā€¦out of maybe 18-20 peopleā€¦there
was only one other guyā€¦at least that I can rememberā€¦Ages
were from High School to retired teachersā€¦ Iā€™m kinda an
inbetweenā€¦canā€™t retire quite yetā€¦

The instructor, and two assistants, were femaleā€¦

Now, I donā€™t care if an intructor is male, female, or
extraterrestial alienā€¦ If they can teach me what I want to
learnā€¦thatā€™s why Iā€™m thereā€¦

Amongst the three of them, I learned more in that afternoon than
years of dinking around on my ownā€¦

My point beingā€¦if this is any kind of cross-section of whatā€™s
going on in the art and/or craftā€¦

The Ladies are going to ruleā€¦ā€¦

A plug for the GIA hereā€¦

I spent a number of years of flopping around when I first became
interested in the stonesā€¦ I got to a point where I had to
correlate this stuffā€¦

The GIA AJP Program (Jewelry Essentials, Diamond Essentials, and
Colored Stone Essentials) lined stuff up let me see the forest,
instead of just the treesā€¦

Was worth every penny I spent on itā€¦in allowing me to learn a
fundamental understanding in a relatively short timeā€¦

Mind youā€¦itā€™s a set of knowledge that sorta lets you what
isā€¦and doesnā€™t do much of ā€œhow do you do itā€ā€¦

But it sure clarified thingsā€¦

Gary W. Bourbonais
A.J.P. (GIA)

OTā€¦turns out that Devcon Two Ton Epoxy colors very nicely with
Testorā€™s model paintsā€¦and if you know a good hobby
shopā€¦thereā€™s a veritable spectrum of Testorā€™s availableā€¦and
then someā€¦

You mix the stuff up according to the directions, and then about 45
seconds into the mixing (1 minute total), use a toothpick to drop a
tad or two of the paint into itā€¦to give you the color you
wantā€¦can make opaque or transparentā€¦ Stuff sets up as hard and as
adhesive as if itā€™s straightā€¦I always clean where itā€™s going with
isopropylā€¦aka rubbngā€¦alcoholā€¦

I dunno if you can stone or polish itā€¦but Sunshine cloth doesnā€™t
seem to bother itā€¦

The cure takes a bit longer than standardā€¦so I always leave it
sit for an extra dayā€¦I also save the mix surface wax paper I
useā€¦and check it before I mess with the jewelryā€¦

Finding all kinds of use for thisā€¦

Craig,

I just finished an article for Lapidary Journal on the Rhode Island
School of Design jewelry program, which should appear in the next
couple of months. My sense from the interviews I did and my visit
from the school is: It depends.

What do you want to get out of your education? I understand from
those who studied that RISD offers a good foundational grounding in
jewelry skills, but if thatā€™s all youā€™re looking for, I would say you
can definitely get that same grounding elsewhere for a lot less
investment. If youā€™re hoping to learn the secrets of being a
successful jewelry business owner, RISD may not be the best place
for you. The curriculum includes no business component, and
internships, although offered, are optional. The focus here is not on
the commercial world, but the artistic.

That said, RISD does seem to offer a really wonderful opportunity to
explore your creative and artistic side, while building a solid
skill foundation. Judging from the student work, much of that
exploration will be in pieces that are not destined to sell, or at
least not outside of a few avant garde galleries, but I think there
can be real value in spending a couple years steeped in an atmosphere
of creative exploration, where no idea is too wild to test and fresh
design influences are everywhere. RISDā€™s facilities are very nice,
and students get 24-hour access to their workshop and tools. And
RISDā€™s alumni network is impressive, so the degree can open doors
that way.

My personal opinion is if youā€™re just looking for training in
technical skills, try one of the assorted technical schools in the
jewelry field: there are a bunch that come highly recommended, such
as Revere Academy and Blaine Lewisā€™ setting courses. If youā€™re
looking for an immersive, intense artistic environment, RISD is
worth investigating.

Suzanne

Suzanne Wade
Writer/Editor
@Suzanne_Wade1
(508) 339-7366
Fax: (928) 563-8255

At least here in America, itā€™s my understanding that having a
teaching credential is to show that you have learned how to teach -
lesson plans, classroom mechanics, the workings of curriculum in
general. I say that to give the teaching profession a little credit.
On the other hand, as some have hinted at here, oftentimes what we
have is recycled teachers in all fields - I encountered it, as have
most of us, I imagine. ā€œAcademic jewelry is frozen in the mid 60ā€™sā€ is
a comment someone made here not too long ago. Someone in any field
graduates, wants to teach, so the next year they turn around and
start teaching their field. And all they are doing is teaching what
they were taught, and likely they learned from someone just like them.
It is literally inbreeding, and carries the same repercussions as the
genetic kind. Now, Iā€™m not condemning all teaching by any means, so
donā€™t get all huffy, because if you think about it you all know what
Iā€™m saying, donā€™t you? Itā€™s also just an observation, because itā€™s
just part of it, and most likely always will be. Having a way for the
James Millers to get involved would be a huge boost, though.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com

I am regarded as a highquality craftsman by my peers. But I am
not regarded as qualified to teach. 

I believe this might be because teaching requires a certain skill
that being a craftsman does not.

I assume that if you go through the process of getting a degree, you
might understand the form teaching requires. When people are going for
a degree, I assume they feel like there is a certain amount of jumping
through hoops to get a degree. I think some of the requirements to
get a degree do not make any sense. If you did not go through the
hoop jumping, you might not be a member of the club. There is nothing
stopping you from teaching, there are many metalsmiths that teach
without credentals, you can have your own school or do workshops.

I have a friend who studied goldmithing in Germany, and he could not
teach classes at a university, but does get hired to do
demonstrations and hands on classes at college metal programs and all
over the world. He taught Inuit in Canada in a remote village, and he
has taught in New Zealand. Are you familiar with SNAG, there are
metalsmiths that do presentation of their work at the conferences,
and they get to make connection with people who want to study with
them, or artists can make connection with people who want them for
demonstrations or workshops. Demonstration is where you do something,
workshop is were you show and students do.

Richard Hart

I have always thought that ability means nothing here in the U.S.
but credentials mean everything! Somehow the colleges have their
"legal bluff" in place. You can't be considered competent to do
anything unless you have a college education in that field. The
sad thing is that college is a legal requirement but in no way
guarantees competence. 

You are 100% correct. Licensing is a scheme by incompetents to keep
otherwise skilled competitors out of the marketplace. This same holds
true for physicians and pharmacists. (Heck, since yā€™all stopped
compoundingā€¦well I wonā€™t go there.)

Why isn't there some process to PROVE competence in addition to or
instead of the required college credits? Don't say, "there
is--it's the board exams." All an exam proves is the ability to
pass a test. 

No, I wonā€™t. The process is called The Free Market, or free-market
economics. It uses the mechanism called the pricing system to
separate the good from the bad, the competent from the incompetent.

Does the pricing system prevent loss or tragedy? No! No more than
does the licensing system, the only difference is the question of
liability: with the free-marketā€™s pricing system the merchant or
practitioner assumes the liability and either buys expensive
insurance (based upon his skill levels and past performances,) or is
confident of his skills and goes it alone.

Licensing on the other hand, removes responsibility from the
practitioner or merchant and lays it at the feet of the licensing
board, which is often a government and therefor immune from
litigation. And so, the license that the consumer relies upon to
denote competency actually allows quite the opposite, while the
free-market method is looked down upon as too Laissez Faire without
the controls the public thinks government provides.

"Knowing how to do" and "being able to do" are not necessarily the
same thing. I seek help from people who are doing well what I want
to be able to do--that is the only credential I need. 

You are a free-marketeer!

Doc