Ya know, guys, I’m really disappointed about this whole sawdust
thing. I was hoping for some great stories about how it was some
Native American spiritual thing going way back to the Old Ones.
Something to romance the customer with.
Michael, No, this view is not a mistake. This is what makes our art
progress to new heights. It is our duty as artists and craftsmen
(craftspersons?) to make every piece better than the last, to
constantly strive to do the best work we can, and to leave this work
behind us for all coming generations. To follow “tradition” for
tradition’s sake is to not evolve. Just because something is
traditional does not make it the best way.Yeah, JJ, I know alot of
people buy “Native American” jewelry. (some of which isn’t even made
here) And if you want to keep using sawdust (or corncob) go ahead -
it’s your product. But the tradition of fine jewelry goes back over
5000 yrs. not a mere 150. My goal is to make work that makes someone
looking at it in a 1000 yrs. say “how the heck did they do that?” As
far as opal goes, I use it more than any other single specie of stone
and have had no problems as long as the piece is designed correctly.
(this means that the stone must first be cut correctly) but what do I
know? I only cut and set my first stone in 1967. stepping off the
soapbox now… Mark Thomas Ruby SunSpirit Designs Loveland,CO
TonyK That may be so for Flea Market Jewelry. Recently sold an older
Native American Squash for $1,200. I bought it some 30 or so years
ago, and then it was something over $600.00. At the time it was made,
the material cost for Silver and Turquoise may have been $25.00. I have
a massive Squash now for sale at $2,500.00, it is heavy solid silver
with large cabachon dark red Coral, and Mother of Pearl. Again, it is
not the sawdust, or old 78 record, or chewed up matchsticks (as was
told to me offline,) it is the ingenuity and skills of the Native
American Silversmith that is part of history.
There are many artist/goldsmith’s that will never see this
appreciation in value of their craftsmanship, no matter how superbly
skilled they are. You know what would happen to most Diamond jewelry’s
value, if the manipulated price of diamonds were ever to realistically
reflect their actual value. The Gold portion of this has already fallen
dramatically.
The real issue is to give each Artist the credit and respect due to
them. The ones who try to look better by putting another down have
immediately lost my respect.
Teresa
Sandy, how do we contact you privately. we have a large stock of
turquoise stones. The problem often does not lie in the sawdust, but
in how the bezels were constructed. Before we starting doing “Made by
Exhibitor” Art Shows, I had a store for over 9 years and carried
Indian Hand Made Jewelry. The problem was usually bezel problems.
Since my husband makes jewelry and some years ago, did mostly
Turquoise and Coral, we have a large supply of stones, Morenci,
Carico Lake, A little #8, Sleeping Beauty, Kings Manasa (Bill King is
no longer mining that mine, according to our info), Chinese, Misty
Blue, Lander Blue, a few others. Of some of these mines, we only
have a few = ten or twenty stones, of others more. He does repair
on IHM - if it is Zuni inlaid or needlepoint, I have a source to
send it for repair in Zuni. Only thing is show orders are many times
half our shows, so he always has a lot of custom orders. He puts
repairs in the same order with the orders - from the date taken. You
would have to be patient. Where are you from? If you choose to mail
it to us, PLEASE insure it. The post office knows we are jewelry
(small town) and even if it is only addressed to one of our names, I
have had packages openee (jewelry was broken and so I did receive it).
Also. he custs cabachon stones, too. So he could reshape something
to fit your bracelet. How large were the stones, Can you measure
(approx) and I can look and see if I have stones in the size you need.
If not, I can check and see if they are available - it is harder to
get really large stones, now. But I would check before you mailed the
piece. My husband always uses sawdust (on non-opaque cabachons) ,
and the only stone I ever remember coming out on his work was a biker
who kept hitting a big onyx ring - he finally epoxied it in, because
of the circumstance. Waiting to hear Michele
Teresa.
Please re-read my posting.
I don’t think I’ve put anyone down.
It’s just that it seems a bit odd, if you’re not a native American,
or working in that field of art, to set a stone (that’s not fragile)
because it’s the easiest way, rather than the best, safest or most
beautiful way.
My first pieces of jewelry were fabricated from sterling and
cabochons. I was taught by an “old boy” to use a spot of glue to
secure the stone in the mount. Very quickly I found that this was a
terrible idea. As my skills improved, I wanted to reuse the cabs but
found that removing stones from the glued pieces was not only a
chore, but tended to chip the stone. The old timer then showed me the
method of using a backing material, such as card stock to allow easy
removal of the stone if needed. The backing material also compensated
for badly cut stones by adding thickness to the bezel. This was fine
for opaque stones and for the style of jewelry I was making. Years
later I took a few classes in jewelry making by “professionals”.
These instructors were schooled in jewelry design and certainly their
pieces were more…academic. When using transparent or translucent
stones or when using open mounts (exposing the back of the cab), the
glue/sawdust thing was not practical nor necessary. However, even
these academic art jewelers used sawdust for the opaque, metal backed
southwestern style mounts. (I say southwestern not Indian because even
the Indians use methods taught to them by Spaniards and other
non-Indians). We are talking cabochons here, not faceted stones in a
tension mount. It has been awhile since I’ve been at the bench and all
this talk of sawdust and glue is giving me the urge to fabricate.
Regards, Will Estavillo.
But the tradition of fine jewelry goes back over 5000 yrs. not a mere 150. Mark Thomas
Hi Mark, I hope like heck that you , and some of the others who have
written, are not trying to tell us that the Western Eupropean
“tradition” of “fine jewelry”, is the only valid form that jewelry
should take? Say it ain’t so! Because based on that, Daniel Brush’s
work ought to be relegated to the type of outdoor craftshow ilk that
is usually adjacent to the pony rides. Bakelite indeed! Same goes for
Lalique…all of that nasty cow horn you know…Or Charles
Loloma…that hack…
Last I checked, all of their work has appreciated to somewhere way
off of my affordability chart…but hey…I think that we all know
how much that perfectly cut, perfectly finished, technically perfect
diamond engagement ring…pin…necklace…fill in the blank…made
by who knows which amazingly well trained, credentialed, truly
wonderful, old school jeweler who’s been doing really excellent work
for 25 years…has gone up in price. Oh…it
hasn’t?..Hmmmmm…methinks that might tell us all, that
innovation and raw talent wins out over tradition every time,
regardless of training, tools materials or habit.
A local voice teacher here once told me that her worth was much
higher than another singer’s because of the first woman’s years of
training and practice, and her ability to hit all of the notes
perfectly. She didn’t understand why the other singer was so much more
acclaimed, when the other woman didn’t have any training, was always
bending the notes, and hadn’t sung for anywhere near as long. I told
her, that even though she was much more technically perfect…the
other singer had a heart and soul that she was able to show us in her
work. Call me a silly romantic, but I still think that technical
perfection and tradition pale in the face of talent…no matter where
it comes from, or in which form it comes to us.
I think that makes four cents of opinion from me…lol…
Lisa, (Out in the mountains on Duchess the horse, eating apples and
figs off of the trees on the trails) Topanga, CA USA
Tony, I don’t think that is the issue at all. A fully equipped bench
offers one far more choices. An indigenous person, whether in the US,
Tibet, Nepal, Australia, etc. have little more to work with then their
ingenuity, and skill. These methods were not used for laziness, or
haphazardly, they were with incredible challenge, and the results lie
in Museum Collections all over the world. Teresa
To classify turquoise and opal in the same price range (even
generally) is a great disservice to both stones. Some turquoise is
astounding in it’s beauty and depth of color and not at all cheap.
But quality opal is in a whole other class. Top quality blacks can
fetch $10,000/ct. or more (cut). Gem quality rough (not black) can be
$50 to $500/gm or more. Many jewelry artists, when asked to break
down the price of an opal piece, will say something like - “well, the
opal is worth $3000 so the price for this ring is $3500” Quality
stones always have value outside of the piece. It does not matter
what type of stone it is.Would you overlook a $700 fire agate just
because it’s “agate”. Or that 60x75mm turquoise free form set in a
belt buckle made out of nickel silver. An appraiser who does not know
how much the stone is worth (or isn’t willing to find out ) is no
appraiser at all! As far as stabilized turquoise is concerned, I know
no one who uses it. I would think it would be a minus factor not a
plus. A junk stone is still junk even if it IS treated to take a
polish. later, MTR
Hello Teresa,
Yikes! I didn’t realise that I had put anyone down, my humble
apologies if you are offended. My entire income comes from the
jewellery trade so I am anxious not to annoy any group that I
generalise as customers 
My comments about questionable practises were not an opinion but an
observation and was definitely not aimed at any particular ethnic
group. I know that every ethnic or any other kind of group has the
ability to produce both truly finely crafted jewellery as easily as
slipshod pieces. Where these people were born has nothing to do with
whether they have talent or not and the primitive conditions they
have to work in doesn’t matter, it didn’t seem to affect the
Etruscans.
I have limited experience of South Western native jewellery but I
have seen pieces that were valued at many tens of thousands with
unremarkable workmanship, by the same token I have also seen
exquisite Zuni pieces containing hundreds of matched perfectly set
stones in a piece that weighs a fraction of the other items yet are
valued much higher. The appraised value of any jewellery item has
nothing to do with ethnic origin or cultural heritage, it is only
concerned with the sum you should expect to pay that day to replace
the piece with one of equal design, content and workmanship whether
or not you have access to the same original supplier…no plane
fares. haha.
As Tony K in London pointed out, quality is at the discretion of the
individual but if one were to spend the time to produce a workmanlike
job then the value goes up too. This is not a case of a piece being
downgraded because of it’s origin but much more a case of a piece not
realising it’s full potential because of it’s lack of workmanship. I
completely agree with Tony’s contention that the extra effort is paid
back in extra value in the piece and extra rewards to the jeweller.
Why is this such a controversial concept?
So far I have had few encounters with appraisers such as those
described by kpkelly, and I’m not going to take someone seriously if
they believe that what I do for a living has no value. Of course all
stones have value and I’d hardly describe someone as a professional
appraiser if they weren’t able to correctly value jewellery. It is
essential that the appraiser knows the stone has integrity and can
determine a close estimation of weight by measurement in order to do
this. Most appraisers insist this is the reason for the hole. Stone
setters believe that it is for them, I doubt any jeweller does it to
make my job easier though I do appreciate those that do. I also doubt
that a 2-3 mm hole represents much of a cost savings.
A gemologist identifies, an appraiser values, not the same thing and
not interchangeable although most North American appraisers are also
gemmologists. An in-store appraiser does indeed have a vested
interest which was my point, these people will not hesitate in
describing a questionable piece very rudely. I find it hard to
believe that hiding foreign substances in jewellery has anything to
do with ethically maintaining an traditional design even more so when
you have to throw money away to achieve it. A pierced back with a
properly set stone is a trick that makes you a buck. A closed back
with an improperly set stone is a trick that loses you a buck. I’m
not suggesting that someone is a lesser person for indulging in these
practises I am suggesting they are poorer for it though. I have an
interesting example of a variation on the hole shown on the Art
Jeweller web site, this hole is pierced in the shape of a gecco.
Incidentaly the piece was made by a Navajo lady jeweller.
Tony in Vancouver.