The answer could be by using pure zinc and lay them next to your
tools.The zinc will be affected urlier then your tools
Pedro you are thinking of electrolysis, where by the metal parts of
boats are corroded by the action of eddycurrents of electricity.
Sort of the reverse of electroplating. Plates of zinc are connected
to these parts, and corrode first. dissipating the effect of the
electric charge. And saving the working metal parts. I don’t think
this will work in the case of rusty tools. John Burgess was right
about polishing your tools. I have several swords that I hand made
years ago, out of high carbon tool steel. Highly polished, then
waxed. They have been hanging in my basement workshop, next to a
washer dryer set, for years now. Without a hint of rust. Even cheap
tools look and feel nice with a polish on them. Michael Turley
The material sold as a deicer is usually calcium choride and would
be like using salt no good at all to prevent rust . Potassium chlorate
would be no better and is not a very safe material as it is an
oxidizer . In a warm climate the best think to do is AC the shop. I
tried a dehumidifier in a 200 square foot shop and the place got to
hot to work in. I now use a small 5000 btu air conditioner and
everything is fine. I live in Austin Texas and we have hot summers
mostly humid but not as bad as on the coast. Keep everything wiped down
with WD-40 or a better polar oil to give a little more protection. For
longer term storage there is material called Boeshield developed by
Boeing for aircraft parts in storage. This is a wax in a light
hydrocarbon carrier . Paraffin in kerosene would be pretty similar.
There is also a rust inhibitor paper available that can be used in
tool drawers and boxes to prevent corrosion too. Jesse
The answer could be by using pure zinc and lay them next to
your tools. Ocean ships to exactly the same thing but with bigger
amounts of zinc. I've been thinking of John Burgess to fill up my
lack of chemistry.
G’day; Thou shall not quote the name of Burgess in vain.
But I’m sorry; that won’t work at all in this case. On ships the
zinc, and iron are IMMERSED in the electrolyte (salt water) so that
they form an electrical circuit, with the result that the zinc is
sacrificed to keep the iron intact. I believe these days the hulls
of ships are electrically charged by a special DC generator in certain
ways to give the same effect as a piece of sacrificial zinc. May I
also add that packets of dried silica gel wouldn’t be anywhere nearly
enough to keep a shed or garage dry, as someone else suggested, unless
many kilos were involved, were heat treated at very frequent intervals
like daily, and the area to be kept dry was sealed. Even putting
them all in a tool drawer would help. Much easier to close up as many
gaps in the shed as possible to avoid through draughts, and to
maintain the tools at frequent intervals with cleaning, polishing,
and a sealing coat of oil, grease, or wax. My house is near enough to
the Tasman Sea that we can hear it loudly. But you won’t find much
rust on my tools as my workshop is attached to the house, is usually
warm, and I use them enough that the first sighting of rust gets
attended to. I have several thousands of dollars worth of tools,
which have taken at least 55 years to collect, buying as money and
needs dictated. AND I landed in this country almost penniless! But I
brought my valuable tools in a special box. –
Salt etches iron because the chlorides combine with water and oxygen
from the atmosphere to form hydrochloric acid. The reaction is cyclic
in that the chlorides are regenerated and react with more oxygen and
water from the atmosphere to form more hydrochloric acid. The
phenomenon is known as ‘bronze disease’ as it also attacks bronze
sculptures. To stop the etching, you have to break the cycle -
eliminate the acces of salt, water or oxygen to the surface of the
metal.
Zinc, in contact with iron and in the presence of an electrolyte (in
this case salt and water), will act as an annode. It supplies
electrons to the iron (reversing the corrosion process of iron) to its
own detriment. This process is used in conservation to bring (some)
corroded metals back to their original state. The metals in this case
(sacrificial annode and object) are hooked up to a power source to
speed the reaction (hours or days as opposed to months/years).
Do not use potassium chlorate! The de-icer you are describing is
calcium chloride and yes it can be used to de-humidify, but in the
lab we most often use Cobalt II chloride. The potassium chlorate is
a strong oxidizer and very dangerous…fire hazard!
I have a basement workshop as well and use the little shoe/leather
silica salt packages. I have a few larger packages that have been
used to pack larger scientific instruments. I am not sure where
these might be purchased. We use a de-humidifier as well…it is a
Sear’s model over 20 years old…I think we bought it for about a
$100 dollars. Let’s see…$5 per year + electricity. I think it’s
worth it!
–Barbara
Barbara A. Hopkins
Director
New Hampshire Science Instrumentation Program
c/o NH Space Grant Consortium - Morse Hall
University of New Hampshire
Durham, NH 03824
My late Father was a tool and die make for over 50 years. He used
plain old blackboard/school chalk in his tool box to prevent rust and
that is exactly what it did! He would exchange the old chalk with
new chalk about twice a year.
Regards,
Skip
Skip Meister @Skip_Meister
Orchid Jewelry Listserve Member
...using pure zinc and lay them next to your tools...
My parents retired to a beautiful oceanfront property–and all of my
mother’s silver tarnishes faster than she can keep it polished. What
might I instruct her to go out and buy at, say, a hardware store or
local autobody shop that she could put in her silver flatware drawer
to try this great idea? How would she ‘get some zinc??’ (I’ll keep
you all posted as to whether she sees a difference.) --A
OK its really simple. No amount of desiccants will do this job That
is the wrong approach. Trying to change the world or environment the
tools exist in is more costly and time consuming than changing the
tools themselves. Everyone who has suggested polishing the tools are
correct. A smooth tight closed pore surface will oxidize much less
easily. Also preventing corrosive elements from reaching the surface
will help stop the rust. Once again don’t change the world around you
it is a loosing battle. Just use some oil, grease, wax, wd40, paint,
electroplating, or whatever your coating of choice is to put a
barrier between the steel and the air. Any coating will work. All low
carbon content ferrous metals will eventually rust all we are doing
is fighting a holding action aginst oxidation. Thomas
Thanks a bunch. I jumbled grabbed the wrong chemical name off the
top of my head. Potassium chlorate is what I use to put a rust
colored patina on iron! And I have to toss the rags in the burn
barrel when I’m through, because they burn like gun powder. You’re
absolutely right. And it was calcium chloride we used to use. We
would put it down on the dirt floor in the blacksmith shop to keep
the dust down. I hope everyone who read my last bone-headed post
will pay attention to yours. Thanks again.
Thanks for clearing up the electrolysing proces which is used on a
boat.I do not not know much about this proces.In matter of fact,I
didn’t know that the zinc was submerged in the seawater(sound
stupid,I know).Sailors told me the use of sacrefying the zinc to save
the steel,but never explained the proces and I never asked them.I
thought that the high humitity in combination with the salt could
caused this problem(somelike the patination of silver in open
air).That’s the reason why I came up with this idea.However,a reason
more for me to check out story’s before spreading them out and giving
people wrongly without knowing exactly what’s going on.I
learn it the hard way and ones in a while you show up like a dummy.
My parents retired to a beautiful oceanfront property--and all
of my mother's silver tarnishes faster than she can keep it polished.
Your mother is in good company. I notice the same problem in the
winter when our forced air gas furnace is operating. As long as she
keeps the silver out in the open air, it will continue to tarnish
(oxidize) for reasons that have been thoroughly discussed in previous
postings. (John Burgess explained why zinc bars lying around won’t
work.) As I see it, she has three choices. 1. Keep the pieces in an
enclosed cabinet or drawer with those nifty paper anti-tarnish strips
(made by 3M) that are changed out every couple of months. 2. Keep
the pieces wrapped up in anti tarnish material rather than display
them - or - have a hermetically sealed display cabinet built. 3.
Have the pieces polished, than commerically coated with a clear
finish. This is probably the best option if the silver is displayed
and not used frequently for serving. There is a local man who
polishes and “clear-coats” all manner of metal pieces, including
silver tea services. He did this to my large brass Thai candlesticks
about 10 years ago, and even cat urine has not damaged the coating.
I got some the spray-on coating and have been very satisfied with it.
My brass house numbers are still bright and shiny two years after my
coating them. I’m experimenting with the coating on sterling
earrings, pendants, and pins to see if it solves the ever-present
tarnish problem and for how long. Tarnished matte finishes are ugly
and this stuff keeps those finishes original in appearance. Also,
what to do if the finish is damaged, so far as polishing and
re-coating. My friends love being guinea pigs in these experiments
;-). Let us know what she decides to do. Judy in Kansas Judy M.
Willingham, R.S. Extension Associate 221 Call Hall Kansas State
Univerisity Manhattan KS 66506 (785) 532-1213 FAX (785) 532-5681
Judy, there is a product called “tuff Coat” and marketed by Swest and
Gueswein which is intended for the application you described on
Orchid. Rather than spraying it on it is deposited by a
electroplating process. Actually i think that it is more of a electro
participation from a colloidal suspension. followed by a baking
process which fuses the coating to the metal. One of the other nice
additions to this process is the ability to dye the coating. the big
downside is the cost.
Don’t take this as a bad comment,but I’ve learned from this group
that the tarnishing of silver is not an oxidicing proces.Silver is a
precious metal and precious metal are called this way because they do
not react with oxygen (gold,platinum an others).The tarnish of silver
is a reaction with sulphur. Rust on steel or iron is a combination of
Iron and Oxygen which is a real oxidicing proces. Its just a matter of
using the right terminology for the right subject.On the end of the
line,we’re all here to learn from each other.So again don’t feel
offended by this little note.
Hi Judy and Gordon, Contrary to popular opinion, the tarnish we see
on silverware is not oxidation. It is silver sulfide caused by the
reaction of silver with sulfur compounds in the atmosphere. A common
atmospheric pollutant near aquatic environments is hydrogen sulfide
(H2S). It is caused by the decay of dead fish or other marine
organisms and smells like rotten eggs, (Rotten eggs give off H2S). In
the winter, when you burn a lot of gas to heat your house, you also
burn a lot of a sulfur compound used to odorize natural gas so you
can smell it. Theoretically, the burned gas exhaust shouldn’t enter
your house but as furnaces age, they invariably develop leaks and the
exhaust gases containing the burned sulfur compounds circulate in your
house and finally find the silverware and tarnish it. Regards
…Bob Williams
Hi, Judy. I’m Andy. I’m the one who writes from this address; 'tis
my father’s & so his name shows up. I’m only visiting them, so this
is a temporary muddler.
Have the pieces polished, than commerically coated with a clear
finish
Oooooooooooooh noooooooooooo!!! Please please please people don’t
do this to your silver! Air eventually inevitably gets in, and then
you really WILL have a tarnish problem… Also, the coating can get
yellow with time; looks awful. There’s a reason old silver has a such
a magical effect on people: it truly does look different then brand
new. That special bluish glow is a hard won patina; it is light
playing accross/bouncing off the dignified face of old age. If you
layer varnish on top of that, your light is playing accross/bouncing
off the varnish. It’s not at all the same.
My brass house numbers are still bright and shiny two years after my >
coating them.
In cases like this, I can of course see what a convenient/good idea
this is.
My friends love being guinea pigs in these experiments Gosh you have
good friends. I can’t think of any of mine who’d let me spray varnish
all over 'em.
I so agree with this sentiment. To me, the best quality of silver in
jewellery is it’s propensity to tarnish. Every piece of jewellery I
make is designed with future tarnish in mind. Occasionally, I’ll use
liver of sulphur to hurry things up, but I prefer the tone of patina
that comes with age.
Hello Andy, You have a rare sense of humor. My friends are very
kind, but I have to admit that they wouldn’t put up with my
slathering them with some kind of shiny finish ;-).
I do think a note of clarification is in order. My suggestion of a
clear coat to prevent tarnishing of silver service is not intended as
a recommendation, merely an option - the third offered, and not
suitable for every piece, or everyone’s needs. I probably erred on
the side of too much presented, but my personal
preference is have several choices before making a decision. Thanks
to Wayne Schenk for his sharing knowledge of a product available from
Swest and Gueswein called “Tuff Coat” that could be another option.
FYI and not a recommendation: “OD Lacquer” from G. J. Nichols in
Chicago is the sprayed on finish I referred to previously. It is
commercially applied and not available to the general public since it
is sold wholesale. This product is not a varnish and dries crystal
clear; my candle sticks have not yellowed in the least over the last
10 years. The finish is quite durable and heat resistant. As I said
cat urine hasn’t affected it, nor has the occasional bump from being
knocked over or hit with the vacuum cleaner. I AM sure that
scratching with a sharp object would undoubtedly mar the sealed
finish, allowing tarnish to occur along the scratch. In this forum of
"out of the box" thinkers, knowing that this stuff exists might be
useful to someone. At least that is my understanding of the
exchange, and I have certainly learned much by reading messages from
various Orchid members. My sincere thanks to all of you and
especially to Hanuman. Judy in Kansas Judy M. Willingham, R.S. Extension
Associate 221 Call Hall Kansas State Univerisity Manhattan KS 66506
(785) 532-1213 FAX (785) 532-5681