Here here Gerry. If it was a tiny insignificant stone set in an
insignificant silver setting…I’d do a wet wrap (did one recently
for my Granddaughter). The original story seemed to describe
something other than insignificant. Gerry is correct - see my
previous post on how. Just do it right from the beginning and be done!
Cheers from Don at The Charles Belle Studio in SOFL where simple
elegance IS fine jewelry!
Leda,
I forgot to mention that I seem to get the best results with the
stone just below the water line.
There is a method for removing the stone that has not been mentioned
yet. This works if the bezel is not too thick. 1) Sharpen the tip of
a pointed X-acto knife like a wedge and round off the sharp corners on
the back of the blade. 2) Slowly insert the blade between the bezel
and stone using a slight back and forth motion parallel to the seam.
Wedging it open slightly, not pry it. 3) Work around the stone until
the stone is loose enough to pull it out with a piece of bees wax.
Timothy A. Hansen
TAH Handcrafted Jewelry web-site :
www.home.earthlink.net/~tahhandcraft
Hi Leda,
I also use the method mentioned of cooling the stone area of the ring
with water. I have also used the cool it or cool jewel product. These
products work can be used with smaller shanks, gold or for protecting
pendants when soldering bails. The water method will work best in this
case. Water is a better heat sink. I usually use a smith little torch
(oxygen / propane) with a #7 tip. Sometimes this is not enough heat. I
then use a Victor welding torch with the same gas and a #3 tip and
lots of oxygen. In this case an oxygen / acetylene or hydrogen would be
better. But I don’t have that set up.
Timothy A. Hansen
TAH Handcrafted Jewelry web-site :
www.home.earthlink.net/~tahhandcraft
Hello All, Just wanted to say thanks for the advice on the sterling
w/lapis ring repair. I went ahead and did a kind of double
cover-the-butt move. I used one of those heat-shield gel products and
applied generously on the stone and shoulders of the ring, propped it
on top of a semi-submerged piece of lava rock in a dish of water and
poured on the heat. It took two tries, changing to a larger torch tip,
but it worked with easy solder and the repair looks great. The wet
tissue paper is one I haven’t heard of but it’ll go in that “neat
tricks” closet now. Thanks again.
Leda
Oh please, please, don’t give people advice unless you really know
its absolutely true or give a rider about “as far as I know”. I’m not
trying to disrespect anyone but the water method just does not work
with some stones and in some circumstances. You really have to know
what you’re doing and even then there’s a chance that the stone will
discolor or shatter.
This is a lapis lazuli stone and they will, no matter how careful we
are, take it upon themselves to self destruct under these
circumstances, especially if we are using a low temp torch. It needs
specific equipment and even then accidents do happen.
I’d recommend unsetting the stone and then repairing.
Tony Konrath
Gold and Stone
Bruce and All, Over the years you could not believe how many stones I
have cut to replace stones broken by heating. Heating includes
quenching. Heating is the main cause of stone breakage. Second is
setting and buffers come in third. Ultrasonics come in forth. Any
time you place an intense flame near to a stone you run the chance
of breakage, internal fracture, glazing, and alteration if the stone
has been treated. To me it is much safer to use your skills as a
metal smith to rebezel the stone than take the chance of ruining the
stone. If you have never ruined a stone with the torch you are
running on overtime. Be very careful. There are not many
lapidaries left in the USA. You may have a long search to find
someone to replace your stone.
Gerry Galarneau
hi folks try this…take an old soup can go to a sandy beach, screen
out some fine grained sand… put it in the can along with some
water also for a heavy mud… then put your piece in the compound,
with the stone buried in the sand compound… this has proved an
effective heat sheild although i use oxy acet… which produces a
very hot pin flame with a little torch… hard to do large silver
pieces but i use a rosebud and really bring in the heat…hot and
fast…too long and the heat will travel… again nothing
is ever a given…it takes practice… ringman
Hey Tony! She did it and it worked. I read this all the time and
sometimes get a little irritated at people who make such positive
responses and don’t know what they are talking about. Jerry in Kodiak
Hi all! I am wondering what compounds the heat -shield gel would
contain for it to be used to protect stones.
Well done Leda,
My heart has been in my mouth for you!
I’ll still never do a repair that way though (except on diamonds,
sapphires and some rubies)
You can all see that for all my soothsaying it turned out OK. - But
wait till the next time…
Jerry–not about jewelry at all, but (showing my flatlander
ignorance), out of curiosity, what is "termination dust? Light snow
on top? --Noel
Oh please, please, don't give people advice unless you really know its absolutely true
Hello Tony: I respect your decision not to solder rings with the
stones under water. We should all realize our bounderies and what we
are comfortable doing. As a full time bench jeweler who makes a living
doing repairs and custom work, I must say that if I were to remove
every heat sensitive stone every time I wanted to size or repair a
ring I would not make any money. If I was to try to charge the
customer for all that extra labor and material, they would go
elsewhere (to someone like me). If I were to refuse any of those jobs,
I would not be able to consider myself a full service jeweler. Most
importantly, If I were to advise a customer that the only way to do
the repair was to remove the stone or stones, then I would be
misleading them. Removing a bezel set stone and then reseting it is
risking the stone also. Soldering or welding rings with heat sensitive
stones is not without risk and should not be taken lightly, but it is
a useful method of dealing with many jobs that come into my shop
daily. I invite you to visit my web page and read my step by step
proceedure. I’m sure you will agree that with due care this method is
invaluable.
Michael R. Mathews Sr. Victoria,Texas USA
Michael,
It just gives me the heebie-jeebies to think about it - but…
OK.
I’ll try it again.
I can be a bit cack-handed at times and I never feel that secure in
some of my skills. I guess if I do it often enough and make a few
errors I’ll get better at it.
But oh me, oh my, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! It will always send the
heebie-jeebies up me!
I’ll probably chicken out and get a brave person like you to do it
for me.
Tony Konrath
Gold and Stone
"Soldering or welding rings with heat sensitive stones is not without risk and should not be taken lightly..."
Hi Michael,
Since I’m not in a retail environment, I don’t do a lot of repair
work, but am being asked about it with increasing frequency.
I’m curious how you address the risk factor with the customer. Do
they have to waive liability on your part, or do you assume the risk?
Do you discuss the risk with them before, or do you just go ahead and
do it? If something does go wrong, do you just chock it up to “the one
that got away” and start looking for a replacement stone?
Also, if I can add another question, how do you deal with plated
pieces, or determining that a piece is plated? I once tried to repair
a commercial bracelet marked .925 and it was either rhodium plated or
silver plated copper fraudulently marked .925. Nevertheless, the
results were less than satisfying, and I suspect plating is more
common than we think in commercial jewelry.
Thanks for any insight (from anyone)!
Dave
Dave Sebaste
Sebaste Studio and
Carolina Artisans’ Gallery
Charlotte, NC (USA)
dave@sebaste.com mailto:dave@sebaste.com
http://www.CarolinaArtisans.com
Noel, Yep, you got it. Termination dust here in Alaska is new snow on
the mountains, signalling the end of Summer and the departure of the
tourists so that we can enjoy the real Alaska for the next six
months.It started with the old sourdough miners when it portended the
end of the mining season. Jerry in Kodiak
Oh this is one of my heart aches. The platting of silver jewelry. I
have never had a definitive answer, of that this stuff is. I have
seen some, I would swear is bumper chrome, it comes in layers of
copper and a white metal. others have a silvery color to it and is
only one layer of white metal. Either one will bouble very bad all
around the area of heat, given the amount of heat transfer that
silver has. the platting is relatively hard, so sometimes it is
detected early on in the repair, a true .925 ring can be scratched
with your fingers. sometimes you notice it when you start to cut the
ring shank with a saw blade, it almost skips before diggin in. I am
always naggin on the buying people to find out weather or not the
silver is plated that they are buying. given a chain, in a month or
a year that customer will be back witha dul tarnished chain and want
it polished, and needless to say you and not polish this stuff off
with out a lot of effort and then you have taken to much off, and it
alters the look. thanks for the vent
ringdoc
Hello Dave:
Do they have to waive liability on your part, or do you assume the risk?
If it is a standard sizing I assume the risk. If it is a re-tip or
re-prong or a repair to close to the stone , I remove the stone. As
most of my work is taken in by the counter help, the customer is
usually not aware of any risk unless I call them to discuss it. In the
23 years I have been doing jewelry repair I have thermally fractured
2 stones, neither of witch were cased by a failure in the the waters
ability to protect the stone. I was careless in both cases.
how do you deal with plated pieces, or determining that a piece is plated?
Many times the clasp or findings on a piece are stamped .925 and the
piece is plated copper or the piece is silver but has been plated.When
you go to solder it the plating bubbles up and makes a mess. Many 18K
white gold pieces are rhodium plated and must be replated after
sizing. Never trust a stamp on a finding as being the content of the
whole piece. Using a file, make a cut in a not so obvious place to see
if the metal under is copper or another base metal and advise the
customer before doing a repair.
Here is the reason why soldering with heat sensitive stones under
water is the safest method. When two objects are placed together
(physicists say when they are put in thermal contact), the object with
the higher temperature cools while the cooler object becomes warmer
until a point is reached after which no more change occurs.When the
thermal changes have stopped, we say that the two objects are in
thermal equilibrium. If you take a ring and put the heat sensitive
stones underwater and then apply heat to the shank the water will only
get as hot as its boiling point before it starts to evaporate. As long
as there is water covering the stone, the stone will not reach
temperatures much higher than the boiling point of water. As long as
you use enough heat to get your weld or solder done before the water
evaporates away from the stone the stone should survive.
Michael R. Mathews Sr. Victoria, Texas USA