Rainbow Calsilica - natural or manmade?

If this is automotive paint (gee we live in a weird world.), then
we should start seeing some of the more recent madly popular
metallic copper colours soon, don't you think? 

No, evidently not. I have read that paint is now applied
elecrostaticly so that it all ends up on the car-- no more spray
booths, no more layers of paint on walls, no more fordite. Of
course, if this stuff sells well, someone will start making it
directly, but you know, then the quality goes out the window ;>)

Noel

Based on all of the anecdotal evidence I’ve been able to gather
along with some scientific investigation, I would say that what the
Mexicans are doing is taking cans of automotive paint, mixing it with
calcium and silicates (makes the stuff seem like something from the
ground) and paraffin to add translucency, and laying it down either
in distinct layers or swirled via the Jackson Pollock technique. Then
they wait for the stuff to harden thoroughly (baking will certainly
help) and then “mine” it and sell it off to cutters. Sound like a
reasonable analysis?

Brian Corll
Brian Corll, Inc. (BCI)

No, evidently not. I have read that paint is now applied
elecrostaticly so that it all ends up on the car-- no more spray
booths, no more layers of paint on walls, no more fordite. 

I know that powder coat paint is done this way, but I’m not sure how
many auto manufacturers are using it, as it is still quite
expensive. The powder is charged negative or positive (opposite of
the metal upon which it is deposited), then baked at temperature and
time until it flows to a smooth finish. Painters on TV shows like
American Chopper and American Hot Rod describe it as a very hard
finish that is more like chrome than paint. They do spray it in
booths, but those booths also have enormous exhaust fans to filter
out overspray.

One thing for sure, any overspray left in the booth would be useless
as “fordite” as the entire booth would have to be baked in order to
get the paint to flow out of powder form. But I’m still not sure how
many are using this type of paint, and I don’t think it works with
other types of paint.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

No, evidently not. I have read that paint is now applied
elecrostaticly so that it all ends up on the car-- no more spray
booths, no more layers of paint on walls, no more fordite. 

I know that powder coat paint is done this way, but I’m not sure how
many auto manufacturers are using it, as it is still quite expensive.
The powder is charged negative or positive (opposite of the metal
upon which it is deposited), then baked at temperature and time until
it flows to a smooth finish. Painters on TV shows like American
Chopper and American Hot Rod describe it as a very hard finish that
is more like chrome than paint. They do spray it in booths, but those
booths also have enormous exhaust fans to filter out overspray.

Autos are painted by mostly robots these days using pretty much
standard auto paints (acrylic lacquers and other high tech two part
paints), but the body IS charged elecrostaticly to attract more paint
particles to the body and reduce overspray. It is then “baked” with
lamps mainly to speed dry time and to harden the finish.

Powder Coat isn’t really “paint”. Powder Coat is a dry powder ( a
type of plastic) that is sprayed (dusted) and elecrostaticly clings
to a item. It is then baked in a oven of sorts (much hotter than a
auto paint drying booth) into a smooth hard finish. And while it’s
tough, it’s not near as tough as chrome as chrome is metal finish.

Thank You
from
gWebber - Feverdreams.com

I could swear that I saw something on TV recently (well, the last
time I actually watched TV, which has been about a year) that showed
an auto manufacturer dipping auto bodies in huge vats of paint. I
don’t know which maker this was or how many makers do it, but it
completely did away with the need for human involvement (other than
to run the machine, sort of like running an overhead crane in a steel
mill) and obviating the hazards of auto paint. If anybody else knows
what I’m talking about, let me know.

Brian Corll
Vassar Gems

I could swear that I saw something on TV recently (well, the last
time I actually watched TV, which has been about a year) that
showed an auto manufacturer dipping auto bodies in huge vats of
paint. 

Auto bodies are dipped for a number of reasons.

On new cars, they can be dipped to clean the metal prior to paint or
to zinc coat the metal and maybe other things. But dipping for paint?,
while I don’t doubt it may have been done some where at some time, it
would however make for a lot of problems, runs, drips, uneven paint
thickness and wasted paint. So I would think the process was short
lived.

Acid dipping can be used to remove paint, rust and body filler.

Thank You
from
gWebber - Feverdreams.com

Here’s what I know, for what it’s worth. Rainbow Calsilica is
definitely stone. Some lapidaries have told me it occurs naturally
near some turquoise mines; some say it’s a man-made conglomerate. I
actually own a chunk of “rough” and it’s interesting material - very
soft. If it’s cut well, you can get some neat-looking cabs, if
that’s what you like (I do).

“Fordite” is a different beast. A few years ago I bought some from a
nice woman at a local rock and gem show. She told me her late father
had worked in a Ford factory (hence the name, I guess) in the 1930s.
Periodically, they would scrape the layers of different colored
sprayed paints off the floor of the assembly line, and some clever
dude found that he could work it into cabs using modified lapidary
techniques. She was selling the last of the finished jewelry her dad
had made with it, and some remaining scraps of the “raw” material. I
bought some,just as a curiousity; still don’t know what I’ll do with
it, but it’s kinda cool! I doubt much of it can be found anymore,
but I’d love to have more.

Rhona

Hi, Rhona-

Rainbow Calsilica is definitely stone. Some lapidaries have told me
it occurs naturally near some turquoise mines; some say it's a
man-made conglomerate. I actually own a chunk of "rough" and it's
interesting material - very soft. 

This begs the question; what leads you to believe that Rainbow
Calsilica is a stone? How are you defining “stone?” It is reported to
have some ground up calcite and silica in it, so I could go along
with it containing stone, but as for its being a stone, it is hard
for me to get there.

The presence of ground-up silica and calcite do differentiate it
from Fordite, but other than that, and the fact that one man-made
substance is accidental while the other is made intentionally, they
are quite similar, I think.

Lee

Rhona,

Please.

Calsilica is a man-made product, pure and simple. So, what you
"know" is wrong. Sorry to be so blunt, but this is not a matter of
opinion. Lapidary Journal published their findings on it some time
back. I’ts man-made, and a ruse. GIA did the same thing. It’s
man-made. There is an absolutely amazing amount of poor information
or opinion passed off as fact on this list.

Since everyone posting here has a computer, why is it so difficult
for some folks to not use Google or another search engine to do some
mildly exhaustive research for themselves rather than ask someone
else to do their research? Is it laziness, or what? It seems that
when erudite and experienced answers are given by those who have
been personally and financial successful in our trade, those remarks
are ignored and ignorance is passed on. What am I missing here?
Folks, Calsilica is a man-made product, let’s put it to rest.

Wayne Emery

I agree that we need to put this thread to rest. Rainbow calsilica
is a fake. Period.

Paint dipping is used for the priming / first coats on a car or
truck. Before the primer is applied there are several preliminary
steps involving dip tanks to clean and phosphate coat the metal
before the primer and base coats. In terms that a school age child
could understand see

As an example of how General Moters Fort Wayne plant does it.

Or excerpted from How automobile is made - production process, manufacture, making, used, parts, components, product

8 As the shell exits the cleaning station it goes through a drying
booth and then through an undercoat dip-an electrostatically charged
bath of undercoat paint (called the E-coat) that covers every nook
and cranny of the body shell, both inside and out, with primer. This
coat acts as a substrate surface to which the top coat of colored
paint adheres.

See also http://tinyurl.com/hbplk for a general story on Automotive
painting

http://www.giffels.com/automotive3.asp describes the following paint
shop at GM of Canada.

The paint shop houses two phosphate/ELPO dip systems, two powder
coat PRIME booths and five colour booths (base coat and clear coat).
The building consists of four levels with the air handling equipment
on the 58’ level, oven heater boxes on the 40 ft. level, operating
floor on the 16’ level and the service level on the ground floor. The
size of the building has presented some unique challenges for fire
protection and exiting requirements. Giffels has been working closely
with the City of Oshawa to provide all the documentation required to
satisfy code requirements.

Kay
LOL trying to imagine a 100,000 US Gallon tank of paint

What am I missing here? 

Well, Wayne, I believe Rhona meant that calsilica is made of
stone, not that it is natural product. But in any case, I think you
could express your views in a less offensive manner without diluting
your meaning, and I think it would be appropriate to do so (to be
blunt, also).

Noel

Noel,

I believe Rhona meant that calsilica is *made* of stone, not that
it is natural product. But in any case, I think you could express
your views in a less offensive manner without diluting your
meaning, and I think it would be appropriate to do so (to be
blunt, also) 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Having spent well in
excess of 30 years in the lapidary and custom jewelry trade, I am
acutely aware of the advantages of having a medium like Orchid
available as an educational tool, among other things. It is a
wonderful tool for the speedy dissemination of
Unfortunately, the medium has other characteristics, as well. Some
will use it in the way a lazy child uses a parent…as the quick
source to satisfy the lazy demand. Some parents will always
accommodate that child, and, IMO, are contributing to the lazy mind,
which expects others to always answer their question, and quickly. I
would suggest that there might be a lot more meaningful exchange of
erudition here if folks would accomplish a little research on there
own before fostering an opinion, that’s all. Doing otherwise simply
adds to the confusion of those who might be late to the conversation
(some of us have a life beyond Orchid, one which requires our
attention) or are truly wondering about the facts.

In the case of Calsilica (sic), a quick survey of published
via Google would reveal that The Lapidary Journal and
Gems & Gemology have de-bunked any theory of this materail being
natural some time ago. What else is there to say about it…that
because it might contain some natural substances there might be some
excuse to call it natural? This is nonsense; fallacious logic at its
worst, and should not be permitted to persist because it CAN BE
damaging. We are talking about science here, not popular opinion, and
I find it disheartening that the educational level of some who enter
this craft is not built on a firmer foundation of fact. Lacking that
education is not a personal shortcoming, but it is, nevertheless an
educational shortcoming. If you view accuracy and a lack of tolerance
towards the ongoing dilution of knowledge as “offensive”, I feel
sorry for you. I know that the world has become extremely liberal and
politically “correct” in the last 25 years. It’s a great loss, the
results of which can be seen all around us. Diminished test scores
all through our society, a generation self-centered beyond belief, a
growing tolerance for lifestyles that undermine the family and
society in general, a permissiveness that encourages zero personal
responsibility.

I’ll keep speaking out for the more conservative side, unpopular as
it may be. It took a lifetime, but, Noel, I am not responsible for
how others may “feel” about my statements. They may discard them, be
angry about them, laugh at them, or consider them seriously. I have
no control over how others choose to “feel”, and I have no
intention, now or in the future, to tolerate inaccurate and
misleading statements which might serve to further generate an
atmosphere of confusion when none should exist.

Fragile egos should be cautious when making inaccurate statements.

Wayne

It would be nice to put this thread to rest. Goodness knows, I’ve
tried. Over the several years I’ve been reading and contributing to
this group, the subject has come up at least three or four times. The
reason for that is because Orchid grows daily, and attracts as many
"newbies" as it does “old heads.”

The people who are new to our collective trades are developing the
same passions that we have, and it will always be our pleasure to
help them by explaining, illustrating and, where possible, proving to
them that things aren’t always as they seem. Especially where gem and
jewelry scams, falsehoods, misunderstandings (and my greatest pet
peeve, misnomers), occur.

It is hard to put this thread to rest if even one person out there
has a strand of this stuff that cost more than a strand of natural
gemstone beads in their inventory, yet won’t disclose to their
customers that it is what it is. As long as there are uninformed
people out there who will pay (relatively) big money for this stuff,
I will inform them. If we all did so, this very attractive material
just might come down in price to a level reasonable enough to buy and
sell it as what it is. If that happens, people may just throw it away
and buy a new strand (or cabochon) instead of bringing it to us to
repair, only to have our scorn heaped upon them for being taken in by
eBayers who care only about lining their pockets. We, here, obviously
care about the subject, or else we wouldn’t go through the trouble to
post for everyone’s and education.

Anyone who may have a comparatively expensive inventory of this
stuff, I urge you to tell your clients what it is before they buy.
They WILL find out, sooner or later, and will cost you much more in
the long run than the difference between paint and natural gemstones
by telling everyone how they got ripped off for paintballs.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL