Purple gold alloy formulas

Next time you melt some metal look at the way the flux acts, it
does not form a skin over the metal it tends to collect at the
edges of the molten metal which means that the center portion is
not covered by the flux.

I am well aware of this. But it is physically possible to weld
aluminum with oxyacetylene and flux. Yes, It’s a horrible idea when
compared to conventional methods. There would be losses but a slag
insulation layer would form. How much would be lost in this slag I
couldn’t guess. A crude button of purple gold could be formed in
this manor for cutting and shaping. The expense would be high
because of the significant losses in both melting and cutting.

    What would you use for a crucible? the TIG torch requires an
electrical connection with the metal being melted. Any metal you
used for a crucible would be melted along with the aluminum and
gold contaminating the alloy and again no purple gold.

Why not use a full carbon crucible?

  You just cannot do this in air.

I agree a gas shield seems to be a necessity, a “glove box” or
otherwise. Although you can sand cast aluminum without a gas shield.
I have used silicate sand and crushed limestone to make usable
aluminum castings. Would there be anything in the sand mixture that
when heated by the molten metal would produce inert gasses?

Peter Rowe seems to have the best solution in the idea of plating
aluminum with a layer of gold then heating until it colors. Appears
straight forward, nice layer of pure to prevent oxidation.

Off on a tangent here but the use of ammonium chloride to remove
impurities is a new one to me. The chloride I assume bonds with the
impurities? How much iron can be removed this way, traces or larger
quantities? I have used potassium nitrate which is supposed to be
capable of removing impurities in a similar manor but it hasn’t
proven to be useful. The “nice blue noxious smoke” is it always
present, or is it the purple of gold chloride burning off?

Regards,
Matt

 Yes,  I will admit that my reply may have been a bit abrasive
however the point I am trying to make is sound. 

True enough. But one can be gentle. I’ve seen more than a few
beginners especially, who may not have tremendous confidence in their
attempts, horribly discouraged from trying, or from online
discussions, because of overly pretentious “help”, when a gentler
approach would have sufficed just as well, offering encouragement
rather than condemnation.

   I can not visualize her trying to sneak in an argon tank any
more than a vacuum pump. I also do not believe that the atmosphere
and the melting methods are going to be her only foreseeable
problems. 

Purple gold presents a number of problems, which you, I, and others
have tried to explain. nevertheless, without being in her situation
and location, we cannot fully understand all the details of what
she’s working with. So skepticism may be in order, but some
encouragement may also be. Besides. Who’s to say she may not, even
if by accident, stumble across a method that works in spite of what
all we experts believe. Remember the old saying that amateurs are
those who go ahead and figure out how to do a thing, because they
didn’t know it was totally impossible…

   I am trying to point out that fact that what is tiring to be
done in this experiment has been tried, and that there are so many
flaws in her theory that it simply will not work. The slightest bit
of taking the time to do one's homework would point that out, and
possibly lead her onto a path that does have a higher chance to
produce something other then disappointment. 

Perhaps. But keep in mind as well, that this other person is using
HER time and HER resources. You and your resources are not at risk.
Offer advice, encouragement, knowledge. If she chooses to use
something you’re offering, that’s wonderful. If not, that’s also
her choice. No need to take it personally, or be offended, or feel
the need to hammer a point home if someone is determined to try
something we might feel won’t work. I’ve seen more than one method
of doing something work out just surprisingly fine, even when I was
convinced it would not work, and knew exactly why it would not.
“never say never”.

   Sometimes you must yell for anyone to hear. Keep the
change..

See, that’s my point. You need not be too concerned with whether or
not you’re heard. Post your info, send it on it’s way. If anyone
chooses to listen, that’s wonderful. If not, you’re no worse off. If
you were in a real life classroom, and chose to YELL, likely you’d be
disapproved of. The rules on the net are no different.

So relax. Enjoy the forum. And when our poster comes back detailing
dismal failure, we can commiserate. Or, if she comes back documenting
some measure of success or learning from whatever happened, then we
need not feel the fool for having been too emphatic a naysayer.

Cheers

Oh, and thanks for the change. :slight_smile:

Peter

Anybody ever think turning an alpha metal to a beta metal might be
the initial hurdle? One flexes, the other shatters. duh!

Ringman

    Next time you melt some metal look at the way the flux acts,
it does not form a skin over the metal it tends to collect at the
edges of the molten metal which means that the center portion is
not covered by the flux. 

I’m not sure of this. It’s always seemed to me that there is a
tenancy for a thin film of the flux to sometimes (emphasis on
sometimes, perhaps relating to temperature) remain on the metal
surface, at least more than totally slagging off to the side. Not
sure of this, but sometimes it seems that way…

   I am well aware of this. But it is physically possible to weld
aluminum with oxyacetylene and flux. 

Actually, with the right flux, welding, tig welding works just fine.
Takes some practice and finesse, but works. The problem with purple
gold is that one is attempting to bring together two materials with
wildly differing melting points, so that by the time the gold melts,
the aluminum is WAY past it’s melting point, and far more reactive
than it normally is when only melted as in welding just the aluminum.
The problem is increased because aluminum and gold are not miscible,
so there is not likely any significant eutectic effect of the
aluminum causing the gold it’s in contact with, to melt lower that it
otherwise would.

However, keep in mind that purple gold is best known in the
electronics/electricians circles as a scourge which forms
spontaneously, at room temperature, sort of a corrosion product it
would seem, where gold and aluminum are in contact, which then messes
up the electrical conductivity of the connection. This ability of the
purple material to form spontaneously over time may present yet
another avenue for exploration. You know, something along the lines
of mixing aluminum powder with gold powder, pressing it together, and
going away for a year? Who knows. I don’t. Might work.

Just remember, in the midst of all the negative input, that purple
gold HAS been successfully used before. Steven Kretchmer published
work with it, apparently soldered to other gold alloys (though I make
that assumption only on the magazine photos I saw), in the 80s. This
stuff isn’t some new thing. And that small metals patina paperback
book I’ve got somewhere around here, in which a university professor
who’s name I now forget, described his method of making a vessel in
aluminum, plating it with gold, and firing it till it formed the
purple skin, is something I bought in the 70s, I think.

   I agree a gas shield seems to be a necessity, a "glove box" or
otherwise. Although you can sand cast aluminum without a gas
shield. I have used silicate sand and crushed limestone to make
usable aluminum castings. Would there be anything in the sand
mixture that when heated by the molten metal would produce inert
gasses? 

Aluminum by itself does not require all that fancy atmosphere
control. You can melt and cast it with a torch, even, though a
furnace of some sort works better. At it’s normal melting temps, the
aluminum forms a stable skin of oxide that helps to prevent excessive
further oxidation, and various fluxes can be used that also help
create a gas shield over the surface. This differs a lot, though
from what will be encountered with melting it together with gold, due
to the much higher temperatures at which gold melts.

   Peter Rowe seems to have the best solution in the idea of
plating aluminum with a layer of gold then heating until it colors.
Appears straight forward, nice layer of pure to prevent oxidation. 

I’m gonna have to find that pamphlet. My memory of the process was
that with a thin enough gold layer, the combination took place at a
fairly low temperature, with nothing actually melting. I don’t
recall the actual temperature. But the aluminum is never melted.

   Off on a tangent here but the use of ammonium chloride to
remove impurities is a new one to me. The chloride I assume bonds
with the impurities? How much iron can be removed this way, traces
or larger quantities? I have used potassium nitrate which is
supposed to be capable of removing impurities in a similar manor
but it hasn't proven to be useful. The "nice blue noxious smoke" is
it always present, or is it the purple of gold chloride burning
off?

Ammonium chloride is a so-called refining flux. The ammonium half
degrades leaving chlorine gas, which is highly reactive. it combines
with any baser metals present to form chlorides. The key is that the
chlorides generally are not soluble in the molten metal, and they
then slag off. I wouldn’t use it to remove large amounts of iron, but
it will reduce, at least, small amounts. The classic situation is
that after refining gold to pure, melting down the ingot, or when re
alloying pure to karat gold, there can sometimes be traces of iron or
other impurities present that result in brittle cracky ingots. The
Ammonium Chloride “fixes” that problem. It’s used as a component in
some melting fluxes. Matt’s super flux for casting is a normal borax
or boric acid based powdered melting flux, but it then adds charcoal
or graphite powder as a deoxidizer, and a goodly bit of ammonium
chloride. Used to melt, say, old scrap gold items, it tends to reduce
the problems caused by bits of solder or old used traces of what
originally were casting deoxidizers in the original alloys. The blue
smoke is literally chlorine, or some compound of it. Very noxious. It
is not a gold vapor of some sort, since it will form just as blue
when melting silver. It’s always there if you use enough of the
ammonium chloride to form visible amounts of smoke. Often (such as
with the matts flux) the actual amount of ammonium chloride is quite
small. By the way, even table salt has some of this same effect, and
it too is sometimes used as a refining flux, though I’m not quite
sure just what happens to the sodium metal when the salt breaks down
to release chloride ion…

Potassium Nitrate is another type of refining flux, but it’s an
oxidizer. Removes things that will be removed from a melt if their
oxides are not soluble in the melt. Chemically, it’s akin to
pumping oxygen over the molten metal. This can have uses when melting
pure gold, but not so much when melting alloys containing baser
metals like copper.

Peter Rowe

Details of casting aside, I wonder if I am the only one here who
fears that encouraging anyone to try to alloy any metals in a room
where "particularly rare, valuable, or otherwise important tomes"
are stored seems imprudent. Especially when done without permission.

Debby

There is a way to make a purple gold alloy without any special
equipment. You will need a torch large enough to quickly melt a small
amount of 24k (please don’t try this with a large amount of gold!), a
ceramic crucible, graphite stirring rod, aluminum foil, and a cup of
sugar.

Put a wad of aluminum foil on the end of the graphite rod. Melt the

24k gold in the crucible, fluxing as you normally would. When the
gold is completely melted, plunge the end of the graphite rod with
the aluminum into the molten gold and SIMULTANEOUSLY POUR SUGAR OVER
THE ENTIRE MOLTEN BALL as you withdraw the graphite rod!

The sugar will instantly caramelize and burn to carbon, effectively

sealing off any oxygen from the molten alloy. Allow the alloy to
cool. You now have made a total mess out of your crucible and will
have to pick and chip away all of the candied crud to find a button
of purple gold at the bottom. Once you chip the button out, you may
pickle it to remove any burnt sugar residue. You will have a button
of purple gold that you can carve into whatever you wish.

I have done this, so I know it works. I also know that it makes a

hell of a mess, and would NEVER attempt to do this in a library. The
smoke detectors would have a field day! As to the question of
soldering onto purple gold, I have not had any problems doing so. I
should add that I am making an alloy that is close to, and higher
than, 18k. I use 18k easy solder to solder 18k yellow gold to the
purple. I have not tried to solder other metals. I have tried to
laser weld it…it didn’t work.

All you can produce by this method is a button. You cannot pour an

ingot or cast this alloy. To do so, you would definitely need the
type of sophisticated and specialized equipment described in previous
posts ( or discover some new way to do this…). The only reason that
I am actually confessing to doing this is to encourage students, and
all metalsmiths, to try things that may seem impossible. Push the
envelope! Break the rules! But do some serious research first, so
you won’t injure yourself or others, or burn down the house.

Doug
Douglas Zaruba
33 N. Market St.
Frederick, MD 21701
301 695-1107
@Douglas_Zaruba

     The only reason that I am actually confessing to doing this
is to encourage students, and all metalsmiths, to try things that
may seem impossible. Push the envelope! Break the rules! But do
some serious research first, so you won't injure yourself or
others, or burn down the house. 

There is nothing wrong with experiments that is how we learn new
stuff however it helps if you understand the rules before you try
break them . If you don’t you are likely to burn down the house or
worse. Remember many of the things we work with can cause serious
harm if misused.

I will have to try your technique Doug. It sounds interesting but
stinky :slight_smile:

Jim Binnion

James Binnion Metal Arts
Phone (360) 756-6550
Toll Free (877) 408 7287
Fax (360) 756-2160

@James_Binnion
Member of the Better Business Bureau

Continue from:

on friday Linus from AU enterprise brought me over a piece of PURPLE
GOLD. his casting office is about five blocks from my studio. he
warned me not to drop it it is very fragile. of course being a
curious jeweler i cut a piece of with a seperating disc and dropped
it 6 or 6 times in my pan to see if it would break. it never did but
i still believe him. i tried to solder it, but i had no success i
used 14 karat white gold hard. i also tried to drill it, i started to
them the piece i cut off broke. if i used a diamond bit i think i
could drill it. i am very excited to start creating pieces out of
this gold. it tests 18 karat. heating it will turn it a white color
but it can be sanded back to the purple color. call him if you are
interested in getting some. AU enterprise in Berkley MI. i dont have
his number handy.

Matthew
www.mhgjewelry.com