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[NYC] Sizing down platinum engagment ring


#1

Hello Orchidians !

i have a little problem, I am from Bombay India, and I need to help
a friend get her engagment ring sized down by less than a quarter of
a a US size ( i.e from 61/4 to a 6 ). Unfortunately she lives in New
york and i cannot do it for her, Ideally it would have been a cut
with a 4/0 saw blade, join the bands then make a groove along the
2.5 mm wide band where the cut has been made with a krause burr and
get it laser welded around the cut portion a little burnish buffing
polish and it should be done in a coule hour while she waits and
watches if done with a laser there is no need to reset the center
stone along with the side tapers i don’t live in NYC, my friend who
works in Manhattan would like to get it sized down.

anyone who offers laser repair services for platinum in and around
47 street so i can recommend my friend to come over and get the job
done, How much would it cost and approx and how timewould it take any
help is appreciated,

If any one from NYC could email to me at @Pragnesh_Zaveri2

Pragnesh Zaveri


#2
and it should be done in a coule hour while she waits and watches 

Why are you helping to perpetuate the myth that every jeweler is a
crook and that a customer should not feel safe leaving their jewelry
with them??

if done with a laser there is no need to reset the center stone
along with the side tapers 

and 2) I don’t have a laser welder but I could size the ring without
removing or damaging the stones from your description of the ring.
Not that I’m in New York City, but if I were I still wouldn’t take
the job on if the customer wanted to sit and watch.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
www.spirerjewelers.com


#3

Hello Daniel,

Unfortunately there are jewelers out there who would take the
diamond out of the mounting and replace it with a CZ or something
else.

When I was working in the Aerospace industry there was a movie star
who also worked there who wanted a jeweler to down size her 3 carat
diamond so it wouldn’t turn on her finger.

He talked her into “cutting” the stone into 3 pieces and remounting
the diamonds.

NOW you and I know that the jeweler didn’t cut that large diamond
into smaller diamonds. She was happy with her new ring. She thought
the jeweler had split her stone and gave her the same stones back.
This is what most people fear.

I think this is another reason for laser marking a serial number on
the girdle of the stones.

I know that I had that fear for awhile until I became a jeweler. If a
jeweler doesn’t have a real reason for the patron to watch there
shouldn’t be a problem.

When the patron becomes confident in the jeweler there will probably
be more work for him/her in the future.

I don’t mind people watching me, because I explain everything I am
doing and why I am doing it. If there is any problem with doing the
sizing then I would explain why I wouldn’t resize the ring and why I
would turn down the project.

Veva Bailey


#4

Total agreement Daniel. Although in a past life as a captive jeweller
in a retail mall glass fish bowl I did a couple. Moments of weakness,
the nod from the store manager plus the career ending glare :-). I
did charge twice the normal price and they had to come back again
when the store was not busy. Still left an ugly feeling. Out of all
of the work few jobs are remembered, some good ones,some nightmares,
and the watched ones.

Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand


#5
Unfortunately there are jewelers out there who would take the
diamond out of the mounting and replace it with a CZ or something
else.

Yes there are some. And there are also some people who might turn
around and shoot you for no reason on the street. But the odds of
either one happening are really pretty rare. Every customer who I
have talked to who claimed to have a stone switched was in fact
misremebering the quality, or some other factor, about their diamond.
And how do you KNOW that the jeweler didn’t cut her stone into 3
pieces? While I might strongly discourage a customer from doing
something like that, if that is what they truly wanted, I’d get it
done for them and it would be their original stone.

As for doing stuff for customers while they watch, if you have a
window into your shop area so they can see in that would be one
thing. But no legitimate insurance company would cover a loss in the
event that your “customer” was in an area (with your permission) they
shouldn’t be in and walked out with something that wasn’t theirs. I
wouldn’t let a customer in my work area no matter what for the
protection of my other customer’s goods (not to mention my own
safety—the last thing I want is to let someone in where they can
hold me up and no one can see what’s going on). Unfortunately the
odds of your customers being criminals is quite a bit higher than the
odds that your jeweler is.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
www.spirerjewelers.com


#6
I know that I had that fear for awhile until I became a jeweler.
If a jeweler doesn't have a real reason for the patron to watch
there shouldn't be a problem. 

There is a very good reason I won’t work under the glaring spotlight.
Jewelry repair is not a performing art. It makes me nervous when
someone is looking over my shoulder, especially someone who already
distrusts me. Do you really want to break my concentration at a
critical point?

And sometimes things just go wrong thru no fault of the technician.
When you’re working on something of someone else’s manufacture, you
don’t absolutely know how it was constructed (experience with 'name’
designers tells me that ‘name’ alone is no guarantee of good make,
sorry to those offended) Yet if there’s a problem and the client is
looking over your shoulder they will think the problem is you.
Because of course no one ever buys a piece of crap.(Not insinuating
anything about the ring in question, just speaking generally).

So what do I do when things do go wrong anyway? I fix it, at least
as good as when I received it, better if conditions allow. I don’t
charge for unforeseen events unless I discuss the risk ahead of time.
Sometimes deficiencies of make are not apparent until you perform
some task or other. I don’t need the 50 bucks so bad that I’ll risk
my reputation on someone else’s product who may or may not have had
the highest standards.

And frankly, hope no one takes offense at this, I don’t need the 50
bucks so bad that I’ll be insulted. Yes, I know that’s an emotional
response but I’ve earned the privilege. Its also not solely
emotional. Its just matter of fact, I won’t do it. I’m calm about
though.

She thought the jeweler had split her stone and gave her the same
stones back... I think this is another reason for laser marking a
serial number on the girdle of the stones. 

Inscription would be of no benefit here as repolishing would remove
it. I once had an ugly heart shape recut to a nicely matched pair of
pears. New stones, new outlines… girdle gets recut too.

47 street so I can recommend my friend to come over 

Pragnesh, I know you are just trying to help out a friend and your
intentions are good. But maybe you don’t realize that your
recommendation would be totally blind? This may be Orchid but its
still the internet. I toyed with the idea of offering my assistance,
I’m just a train ride away, out of the same feeling of comradery that
perhaps you felt, being on Orchid. But I don’t know your friend in
the same way she doesn’t know me, see Daniel’s remarks. So we’re all
back to square one.

What I can suggest though, is that your friend take the time to
examine her diamond under a loupe and really get to know HER stone.
Memorize the identifying characteristics, look at a lot of other
stones for comparison. When dropping it off somewhere, discreetly let
the shop know that she is intimately familiar with the stone. A
prestigious cert would be a great help. Might go something like
this…“Do you think this stone is the one described on this AGS
cert?”… “Yes”… “Can you size it for me”… No hurt feelings but
the message gets across.

Good luck with it.


#7

In nearly 39 years at the bench only once have I personally
encountered a customer who has had a stone switched by a jeweler, and
that was 24-25 years back. The cost to a jeweler would be just too
horrid to imagine taking such a stupid risk.

The one time I know personally of, the customer came to me and
insisted she watch me work as I did a repair as, in her words: “The
ring has never been out of my sight”

I would not allow her into the shop, but I had her watch from just
out side the shop. I told her: “My customers don’t know you, and did
not leave their jewelry expecting total strangers to have access to
it”. As soon as I sat at the bench though, it was obvious that her
stone was NOT a diamond and I quickly moved with her to the
microscope to show her. Her story was that sometime in the past when
no local jeweler would do a remounting in front of her so she took
her ring to a total stranger in NYC diamond district to do the work.
That was the only service ever done to her ring and she: “watched
every move he made”.

After she said this I gave my “new” customer a simple and quick
education in slight of hand, demonstrating how easily I could palm
and switch objects right before her eyes, while going threw the
normal hand motions required in a routine setting job. I explained
that the integrity and reputation of the craftsman she chooses is
her only real protection, and that by going into an environment when
all too often benches and spaces in store fronts or offices are
available for short term rent, and where there can be significant
turnover in bench workers, she was exposing herself to the very type
of person who might see her as a good victim, and take the risk.
Chances are a year or two later the bench jeweler would no longer be
there, yet almost without reservation I could state that no jeweler
in her local area would dream of risking their reputations and
careers for what would amount to so little actual gain.

(Having said all that, over 20 years later a jeweler from our region
was convicted and is currently in prison for doing just that over a
period of time, so it can happen, but is my experience a real
rarity. The one example in 39 year experience,and the resulting
destruction of this jeweler and his family helps prove my point of
both the rarity and risks).


#8
In nearly 39 years at the bench only once have I personally
encountered a customer who has had a stone switched by a jeweler,
and that was 24-25 years back. The cost to a jeweler would be just
too horrid to imagine taking such a stupid risk. 

I definitely want to join in this opinion. From my experience,
nothing makes you as much money as absolute integrity. Jewellery is a
great business and a profitable one, but only if you have trust of
the public and trust of your colleagues. Everything else is
secondary.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#9

I would also like to add in my 5 cents on this one… When I was an
apprentice, we had several cases of husbands bringing in their wife’s
engagement ring to be polished for their anniversary, then asking if
the stone could be removed and a cubic put in it’s place because he
needed extra cash for whatever. The wife gets a sparkling,
new-looking ring for the occasion and the husband gets some extra
cash.Although we would get a signed statement on what had transpired,
I can imagine the wife figuring it out a few months/years later and
the husband putting the blame on the jeweller.

In my experience, it is not worth ruining your reputation by doing
something so stupid. Few jewellers would. There are more corrupt
husbands out there than corrupt jewellers! The jeweller just seems
get the outright blame each time. A corrupt jeweller would also be
rejected by the other jewellers in the community… It’s just not
worth it.


#10

Oh Lord, I sometimes I get soooo tired of that old myth. One day
when I was working in a very fancy-schmancy high end store a customer
asked me if i was going to switch her stone. I looked her in the eye
and said “Madame, look around you in this store. We’ve got millions
and millions of dollars in really big and important stones and
jewelry in this store. Do you really think that your 1/2 carat
diamond is worth my while to switch? After all I’d be risking
everything we have here for your stone.”

Believe it or not, she laughed and said,“Yeah you’re right”. I then
cleaned and louped her stone, showed her the identifying marks and
flaws so that she could identify it later.

An educated customer is a much happier customer. The loupe is our
friend.

Have fun and make lots of jewelry.
Jo Haemer
www.timothywgreen.com


#11

I had a good friend, a master silversmith, who lived in Maui,
Hawaii. We were roommates for a time. He told me a story of a couple
who came into his small store in Paia and wanted him to make a new
mounting for the wife’s diamond, set in the original mounting. When
the couple came in to pick up the new mounting he had made, with the
original diamond set into it, they loved the new mounting, but told
my friend the diamond was not theirs. So he had not switched the
stone, but they were convinced that he had. I often tell this story
to clients, as a way to convey that jewelers can be caught up in a
"switched diamond" scenario, even if the diamond is the original. I
also give a loupe to my clients to inspect their set diamond. I show
them how to look for inclusions, scratches, carbon spots, or anything
which will help them identify their stone in the future. This gives
them confidence in your honesty, and ensures a method for them to
recognize their own stone once it has been reset.

Jay Whaley


#12
There is a very good reason I won't work under the glaring
spotlight. Jewelry repair is not a performing art. It makes me
nervous when someone is looking over my shoulder, especially
someone who already distrusts me. Do you really want to break my
concentration at a critical point?

I feel exactly the same way. And I work on 3,4, or 5 jobs at the
same time. I may solder a few things in a row and while they are
cooling or in the pickle, I will work on a few more. I generally do
the final polish on everything at the end of the day. This is all to
maximize efficiency. If I have to do only one job with someone
watching me, it takes longer overall and wastes time. Not to mention
some jewelry is so dang dirty that it needs to soak in the ultrasonic
for a long time before it can be heated with a torch.

Lauren


#13

Stone Switching - not a myth

It happens. I caught a mall jeweler doing it on me 21 years ago with
a SI2 diamond they switched for an I1/I2.

I called them on it, the store manager looked at the ring, went
white as a sheet and grabbed the ring off me and made all sorts of
excuses…

A year or so later the company was sold revealing tales of cocaine
habits and embezzlement by the owners.

Does it happen a lot ? I doubt it, but it does happen…

Andrew Jeavons


#14

We always plot anything over 1/4ct. in front of the customer and let
them look through the scope to see and understand what the plot
markings mean. We have never had a problem…well except for the
one time we did let someone watch us set their diamond. The young
couple was very excited waiting to see their diamond be set in the
strange surroundings of our shop. One of the guys opened the job
envelope and took out the ring they had spend so long selecting. He
carefully took out the stone paper and opened it up so he could
measure it to pick the head. As he opened the paper it POPPED! The
diamond flew through the air with at least 6 pairs of eyes watching
it. It landed somewhere…AND WE COULDN"T FIND IT!

Talk about a total freak out! The clients left more than upset, this
event appeared to have caused some sort of brain injury to the future
bride. We found the stone the next day and set it up for them. We
have discouraged customers in the shop ever since.

As far a switching diamonds, that’s just plain stupid. Nobody with
any sense would do that. But if someone is worried the plotting seems
to reassure them.

Mark


#15
We have never had a problem....well except for the one time we did
let someone watch us set their diamond. The young couple was very
excited waiting to see their diamond be set in the strange
surroundings of our shop. 

And again I ask, why would anyone allow someone they don’t really
know (I don’t care if they have already given you money—I once had
a customer buy one pair of earrings and steal a second pair) into
their shop area where there may be all kinds of jobs for other
customers lying around, or loose stones or metal or whatever?? Why
would anyone take that risk? Maybe if you knew them for a long time
or they were friends (I will occasionally bring long-time—and I
mean LONG time customers into my shop to see my tequila bottle
collection but I will have to have known them for a good ten years
to do that). I could see it, but to let someone in there you just
recently met. Not in my book. Only asking for trouble.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
www.spirerjewelers.com


#16
As far a switching diamonds, that's just plain stupid. Nobody with
any sense would do that 

Jo-Ann was walking down Market Street last November around 7pm, when
she looked down and saw what we call a “job bag” sitting on the
sidewalk. She knew what it was and picked it up. Then she went back
into the lobby of our building and called the store on the envelope,
saying she had found it. They asked her to look inside, and it was a
customer ring with two diamonds of maybe 3/4 ct. each. Probably 6 or
8 thousand dollars replacement value…

So, the owner is still around, pulls up front in his Mercedes, flips
Jo-Ann a $50 and asks if we’re looking for work - he said it’s hard
to find someone with that kind of ethics. The next day all these
people in our building are snickering about how they would have kept
it…

To date (3 months or so) I figure the billings to that store have
exceeded the value of the ring even at full retail, and they come by
with more twice a week. They have cut out another shop they were
working with in our favor. Nice people. Crime or even a lapse in
sensibility just doesn’t pay.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#17
Crime or even a lapse in sensibility just doesn't pay. 

I really liked your account of a recent event John. It made me happy
that there are still plenty of honest people in this world. It is the
"honesty is ALWAYS the best policy" ideal that I have always
instilled into my children, and as you pointed out, it usually has
very positive outcomes, apart from knowing that you have a clear
conscience too.

Helen
UK


#18
The next day all these people in our building are snickering about
how they would have kept it.... 

You’re reputation in this business is everything. Everything.


#19

What was the consequences for the company that lost the job
envelope?

Richard Hart G.G.
Jewelers Gallery
Denver, Co.


#20
What was the consequences for the company that lost the job
envelope? 

Well, Richard it was the owner who dropped it, and to this day he
doesn’t know how. We are a jewelry building - there’s probably 200
jewelry oriented people here - and traders come and go all day long
doing business. Since he’s not the sort to drive icepicks into his
ears, the customer doesn’t know what happened…No harm, no foul.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com