New 5 inch knew concept saw problem

Jewelry Discussion
41 
Didn't anyone ever see the little brass knob on the bottom of the
saw frame? If you put the saw blade in both the top and bottom
slots and tighten them.......set the little brass knob on the table
top and pull down on the handle, then tighten the screw at the bend
of the metal frame - you will get a nice ping and never have to put
the handle in your chest again.

That, of course, works, and you have to do it should you wish to use
a blade that’s longer or shorter than standard.

But frankly, I find that a lot slower to do. More operations than
tensioning at the same time as clamping the blades.

Also, you’re changing the length of the frame. If you then break a
blade, in order to install the new one, if you don’t wish to compress
the frame in the usual “frame to chest press” method, then you have
to first loosen that nut, shorten the frame, then install the blade
and lengthen to tension again. While that certainly works, it’s
slower both in number of operations and also that one might be
holding the frame it a seperate postion to tension this way, than
one holds it to install the blade. I find that cumbersome. But I also
don’t mind pressing the frame in with my chest.

Back to the Knew Concept saw, though, I would mention first that I’m
used to the screw system for blade tensioning (you get used to it, so
that installing a blade simply means rolling a finger down the nut in
one direction, clamping the blade, the rolling that nut down the
finger in the other direction to retension the blade. Quick and
simple) However, as often as not, I find it’s even quicker to tension
at least the finer blade sizes (which don’t need much tension) the
old way. While the Knew Concept saws are very rigid, there’s no such
thing as totally rigid, I think, at least not in this context. You
can’t spring the frame in much, but you can spring it in a little,
and often, that’s all I need. Even quicker than using the nut to
tension the blade. You just have to be sure that when installing the
loose end of the blade, it inserts fully into the hole.

This way, you get the benefits of the much more rigid and
lightweight Knew Concept saw, but you get all the speed of the old
ingrained habit of compressing the blade with your chest. So long as
you don’t mind doing that in the first place, it works. The rigidity
of the frame means that the tension you get this way is the same each
time, so even testing for the ping sound isn’t really needed. Doesn’t
work so well with larger blade sizes which need more tension, or for
situations where you may wish more than normal tension on the blade,
but I find it works well with both my aluminum frames and the
titanium one. Also, Lee’s larger handles are rounder and wider at the
bottom too, so there’s less likelyhood of pressing the handle to
one’s chest being uncomfortable…

cheers
Peter Rowe

42 
Compare the difference in thickness between jigsaw blades (which
are held in tension from both ends) and Sabre saw blades, which are
only supported at the base. The jigsaw blades are 1/2 the
thickness, and 1/4 the width, yet cut far more accurately, as
they're held in tension, rather than flopping around loose like
sabre saw blades.

Huh, my jigsaw blades are held at only one point? Mine are rigid
because they are short.

I bet this is one of those vocabulary differences between Australia
and the States.

Regards Charles A.

43 
I keep my old saw frame on the bench loaded with a thin strip of
abrasive film.

Peter, that’s brilliant. You are a genius - that’s the solution to a
problem that I’ve been pondering on an off for a couple of years. I
can’t believe that I never thought of it. You have quantatively
improved my working life. Thankyou.

(And it will be good to have a use for all those unused traditonal
saw frames, which have been abandoned in a drawer, and must be
feeling lonely and unloved).

Jamie Hall
http://primitive.ganoksin.com

44 
Oh yes, and I was fortunate enough to sell my Knew saw to some
other jeweler...wasn't what I wanted

I’m about to consider this. Part of the problem is that some of my
Rio Laser Gold sawblades do not seem to be quite long enough to stay
in my frame. I bought these blades at several different times (while
using my old saw-frame). But even when these blades are 5 1/8" long,
I can’t get them to stay in the top clamp without several attempts.
Believe me, I know the meaning of the phrase, “Over-loosening lets
the spring and knob become disassembled” (BTW, thanks for the helpful
additional instructions at http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/jh ).

While reassembling the spring and knob yesterday, the spring slipped
out of my grip and into some alternate universe. Now I’ve got to hope
I can purchase another spring…

However, I’m beginning to wonder about my particular KnewSaw frame,
since, with a blade of 5 1/8" tightened in the lower holder, the
upper end of the blade will /not/ extend beyond the upper anvil screw
(as shown on p. 3, No. 4, in the new instructions) unless the
tensioning screw is all but off the upper end of the vertical screw
at the top of the blade holder. Is this true for everyone’s KnewSaw
frame?

Frustrated,
Judy Bjorkman

45

It is all in the ping.

I discovered that it is important to tension the blade so I hear a
high ‘ping’. When I tension the blade correctly I can saw until the
blade is dull (no kidding). I still break blades occasionally but
when that happens it is because I have twisted or pulled the blade
at an angle.

I really like my Knew Concept saw I purchased mine when they first
hit the market and have not wanted to use my old frames since.

Sandra

46

I love my screw tension Knew Concept sawframe. I tell my students
about it, they love it, too. Fabulous innovation!

Linda Kaye-Moses

47

i’ve been hesitant to enter into this discussion because if anyone
tried to take my Knew saw away from me, i hate to think what would
happen to them. i’ve always loved the meditation of piercing work,
but recently while working on a truly crazy cuff design, i had to
resort to an old-fashioned saw frame for the 7 inch version (i have
since purchased a 7 inch knew, never again will i go through that
torture) and i was utterly dismayed to realize (not that it was a
surprise) that much of the improvement in my sawing in the last year
has been 100% on account of a better tool not a better craftsperson.
well, whatever, no one else need know.

so i am UTTERLY grateful for the innovation.

but yes, i too have the same problem that judy has.

i didn’t have it at the beginning - not so terribly anyway. but now,
it’s pretty bad.

from what i can surmise, over the last year, the tension between the
screw and the threads and the spring has lessened. so what used to
be a gradual shimmy shimmy to where i needed to remove the screw and
bolt, wind the bolt down to the end, reinsert into the spring and
saw, and start again… now it’s nearly every 3 times i reinsert the
blade. a bit annoying. if i’m sawing out 100 2mm by 2mm diamonds
this really slows me up.

now - i’ll put up with it if need be because the shape that i get
when i’m using a normal saw frame with diamonds or stars do not
really resemble diamonds or stars unless i ask my very unobjective
mother what they resemble to her.

so better to get it right slowly than wrong quickly.

i purchased the lever saw though i haven’t quite gotten the hang of
it. i might need to read the directions once again if i can find
them. surely i’m loading it wrong because i have a hard time getting
the blade straight - it seems to keep wandering into the angular
option. I AM ALMOST 100% CERTAIN THIS IS HUMAN ERROR I.E. MY ERROR
AND NOT THE SAW’S FAULT.

so anyway, that’s my two cents. i think the existing mechanism could
be improved. maybe a stronger spring. maybe tighter threads. maybe
just a replacement spring and screw that we could buy to return it
to its original form. hell, we buy replacement
blades/strikers/charcoals/etc … why not springs and screws? i’m
willing. this saw has improved my work and expanded the horizon of
what is possible to such an extent that i’d put up with damn near
anything.

on another note, i have no idea if this is a sound idea or not, but
i’ve always had trouble with the larger saw frames. i’d love to make
an ornate picture frame that’s larger than 3X5 but as of now, it
seems unpleasant. (remember, i haven’t tried out the larger Knew saw
so maybe this becomes a bit moot - but not if people want to work on
even larger scale items.)

would it be possible (or desirable, maybe it’s just me) to make a
saw frame where the frame is an oval/rounded rectangle that is
perpendicular to the line one intends to cut? the saw blade is
positioned in the middle. this way you could cut for miles without
running out of room so long as you were cutting straight, and even
when rotating, depending on the diameter of the circle, you could go
quite far.

i’m sure i’m neglecting to think of something, but it seems like it
might be a bood complimentary saw to use in conjunction with a
normal one when executing swirls and other rotational shapes at the
far ends of lengthy pieces. as well as long straight cuts.

will stop babbling now!

best,
hilary

48

I admit it, I loathe sawing or piercing, but I’ve made myself do it
to remind myself. However, I rest the top of frame against my desk,
hold the handle in my left hand, rest my fist against my hip socket
and lean forward to compress the frame, and I tighten the lower
thumbscrew with my right hand. Works like a charm everytime. Easier
on the body and avoid the painful chest position, which never made
much sense to me, for it’s a bloody painful position.

hope that helps
Joy

49

Do marvels never cease! This sounds like a good retrofit for the
early saws. As an owner of one of those saws I sincerely appreciate
you and Lee putting your heads together to figure out an upgrade.
When you decide for sure on an approach that works and have a price
set for the kit I think you’ll have a lot of grateful customers.
Thanks for your efforts!

50 
The rigidity of the frame means that the tension you get this way
is the same each time, so even testing for the ping sound isn't
really needed.

I only quote Peter because he’s that last of a loooooooong list of
posts on this thread, no other reason. We have, I believe, the
latest version of the saw - titanium/lever. It’s a fine thing, to
be sure. Most of my sawing - that is, most of the times I reach for
a saw - these days is “hacking”. Sawing a ring shank for sizing,
whacking off a bit of thick wire and the like. For those day-to-day
chores I find my trusty old saw (and I mean old, as many of you can
say, too) quicker, easier and far less ponderous. I’ve done a few
actual piercing jobs with the knew concept, though, and it just can’t
be beat for that. I think the real answer to this thr= ead, for me at
least, is to have both…

51 
Do marvels never cease! This sounds like a good retrofit for the
early saws. As an owner of one of those saws I sincerely
appreciate you and Lee putting your heads together to figure out an
upgrade. When you decide for sure on an approach that works and
have a price set for the kit I think you'll have a lot of grateful
customers. Thanks for your efforts!

I’m sticking with the cheaper model to try it out, landed in
Australia it’s about $75, as opposed to $134 for the one with the
lever action.

If I find that changing the saw blade is a pain in the rump (which
from the past comments, it isn’t), I’ll add the more expensive
version to my tool box.

Mine comes in about 6-10 days (probably 10-14 due to Easter), and
with all the good reviews I can’t wait to try it out and show it off
at school.

Regards Charles A.

52

Hi Judy,

It is the same for me too but that may be because I use the same
blades you do. I like the knew saw very much but am having a tough
time sawing a straight line with it. There have been so many, many
posts here that talk about how easy it is to achieve super straight
and precise cuts that I am convinced it is possible. And I am
determined to figure out what I’m doing wrong. Thanks for mentioning
that there is ‘set-up’ available for the saw in the
’questions section’ of the knew concept website. I’ve just gone
through all of the photos and advice there and am encouraged enough
to start from scratch and see if I can get the saw set up correctly.
Then I expect to be able to saw a straight line… without having to
twist the frame back and forth to keep the blade parallel to the
line, damn it!

I am finding this discussion to be of great help. Prior posts have
talked about what a fabulous tool the saw is, which led me to make
the initial purchase. But between the blade changing mechanism
(spring model) that I find cumbersome and slow and my inability to
get it to saw in a straight line ( and yes, I was able to cut
straight lines with a standard jeweler’s saw) I had pretty well
given up on the saw. This discussion makes me realize that 1) I’m not
the only one who has had difficulties with the product and 2) has
provided a range of suggestions that have inspired me to once again
take the saw in hand and get the problems worked out.

All the best to you and everyone,

Joe
Bloomington, Indiana

53 
As an owner of one of those saws I sincerely appreciate you and
Lee putting your heads together to figure out an upgrade. When you
decide for sure on an approach that works and have a price set for
the kit I think you'll have a lot of grateful customers.

I, too, appreciate the effort, but I am dismayed at the cost-- about
half that of a new saw! For those of us who went ahead and invested
early, it might be argued that the upgrade should be offered at
minimal cost. But then, I am doing OK with my screw system, except
when I loosen it too much and it falls off completely. So I would
not feel compelled to spend another $25 on this saw.

Noel

54 
I, too, appreciate the effort, but I am dismayed at the cost--
about half that of a new saw! For those of us who went ahead and
invested early, it might be argued that the upgrade should be
offered at minimal cost. But then, I am doing OK with my screw
system, except when I loosen it too much and it falls off
completely. So I would not feel compelled to spend another $25 on
this saw.

I agree. By his own admission it needs to be fixed. I have never had
to pay half again as much for a product the manufacturer said wasn’t
right. I am really stunned by this. The fair thing to do is, trade in
the wrong one for the right one. After all, those of us who bought
his first ones are the very people who supported him in launching
this tool. I’m insulted.

55

I too was an early investor in the new saw and I have never liked
it. I’ve had problems loading and unloading the blade and I can never
get the tension right. As a result, I never use it, so I would
certainly not invest any more money into it. I would be willing to
return it to try an upgraded model. Money isn’t growing on trees
these days…

Grace

56

Problem solved! Brian (of Lee Marshall’s workshop) sent me another
upper blade holder which had a longer upper screw on it. When I got
it into place on my New Concept saw, the system now works fine!
Thanks so much, Brian. Again, fantastic service!

Judy Bjorkman

57 
I agree. By his own admission it needs to be fixed. I have never
had to pay half again as much for a product the manufacturer said
wasn't right. I am really stunned by this. The fair thing to do is,
trade in the wrong one for the right one. After all, those of us
who bought his first ones are the very people who supported him in
launching this tool. I'm insulted.

I’m sorry this is unfair, the saw works fine with the screw
adjustment. I have both screw tensioner and cam tensioner saws and
both work fine. The cam tensioner is an optional higher end feature
not a fix to a design problem.

Lee is an engineer and approaches his products like an engineer and
he is always very open in discussing various aspects of his projects.
There is always room for improvement in any product and Lee like any
good engineer always is looking at how to make it better and this is
what you are hearing.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts

58

I have an issue with my Knew Concept saw that I have not seen in
this discussion. My saw has a twisting wobble to it, meaning that the
top of the saw twists clockwise and the bottom of the saw twists
counter clockwise or vise versa. From top to bottom the frame is
rigid, but from side to side this twisting has caused me to break
more blades than I ever did with my Swiss Grobet saw frame. I
contacted Lee a couple of months ago and was told to send it back,
but between my full-time day job, teaching jewelry making classes,
and trying to get ready for some summer sales, the KC saw is still
sitting in my “To Do” pile. I was a little disappointed that I didn’t
receive any explanation and have to pay the postage to return it. Is
the frame suppose to do this? My Grobet saw does not have this
twisting action to it.

59

Teddy, with all due respect, how else does one test out a new
product? Can a control group of 10 or 15 jewelers give the same
feedback that the open market does? I think it’s great that Mr.
Marshall listens to customer feedback and uses that info to improve
his product. Do you not remember Orchidians begging Mr. Marshall to
put those frames on the market ASAP so we can all enjoy them? I do -
couldn’t wait to get my hands on one. I hated using a traditional
saw, avoided it at all costs - broken saw blades left and right -
sometimes 3 blades to a single cut, the last time one shattered 4mm
went in, teeth up, right under the fingernail - took 3 shots of
tequila to rip that puppy out and I swore I would never saw again. My
Knew concept saw has paid for itself in saw blades - I broke my first
blade 10 months after purchasing the Red Wonder.

I LOVE this saw, don’t care if it keeps getting improved because
mine is SO much better than what I had before and it has changed my
mind about using a saw. I am so glad Mr. Marshall broke ground with
this design, and he can keep improving it all he wants - I’ll check
out the new iteration when mine is worn to nubs. And yes, I buy
Microsoft products, with the mindset that it’s perfect if it fits my
needs, not if it’s perfect. I took a few minutes of fiddling to
’get’ the blade mechanism - fingers had to learn a new process - but
I’ve never had an issue with replacing the blade, tightening the
blade, or cutting with the saw, and I have one of the first ones, I
believe. Thank the gods for progress, you know (knew)?

Sam Kaffine
Sterling Bliss, LLC

60

I just felt like chiming in, partly because I’ve stopped posting
again on recreational boards (Facebook free for close to a year
now), and because I spend hours and hours each week sawing with
equipment Lee Marshall has made. I’m extremely hard on the gear
because I saw steel pancake dies, and I use brute force unreservedly.
I used to tear up thumbscrews on regular jeweler’s saws, and the
frequency of that plus the force needed to screw them tight enough to
strip them out led me to using socket head screws tightened with a
hex key. This is what I still use, but the extra torque provided hold
the blades in so well that they dig deep grooves into the frame and
pads that hold the blades. So I made retrofits for the frames that
have hardened steel pads. I have saws with nuts soldered onto the
frame to replace the function of stripped out holes, and the hardened
retros solved that problem better, but the hardened tapped holes, and
the frames don’t get grooves now, but after a few months the socket
screws themselves strip out. Extreme sawing…

Dar