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New 5 inch knew concept saw problem

I don't want to be mean... but is sucks as a saw compared to just
a plain old saw frame... that we hold to our chests and ping. 

I know it’s not the same, but you could always say “ping” when you
pluck the saw blade :smiley: CIA

I dunno..maybe the knew saw is wonderful. Rigid frames and screw
devices (or levers) to make it work... don't really work. I don't
want to be mean... but is sucks as a saw compared to just a plain
old saw frame... 

Brent, you demonstrate simply that one cannot please everyone all of
the time. If you prefer the traditional frames, then use them.

But I’d point out that Lee’s Knew Concept saw was developed and
tested by a bunch of rather experienced, expert, jewelers. The design
was driven by what works, though that may be defined differently than
you do. The original ideas, as I understand it, came from research
into why sawblades in POWER saws, like jig saws wood workers use but
scaled to use jewelers saws for metal, simply didn’t work. In such
power saws, the blades break. Research showed that it was the frame
flexing that was at fault, and holding the blade in a frame so the
tension was totally consistant no matter what part of the stroke you
were talking about, eliminated much or most of the problems with
blade breakage. That requirement, for a really rigid frame, is what
drove the knew concept saw’s design. That it looks cool is merely a
side benefit.

The principals behind a really rigid frame that reduce blade
breakage in a powered saw, also apply to how a manual saw frame
works. Having a really consistant blade tension allows the blade to
work better and more consistantly. It not only reduces breakage if
you use it right, but it also allows the blade to cut more
consistantly, straighter, under better control. The traditional saw
frame’s flex means that the blade tension loosens on the frames up
stroke, and tightens on the downstroke, and the transition between
the two, especially at the start of the downstroke, is behind much of
the tendancy of a blade to sometimes try to wander or to break or
snag.

If the Knew concept saw takes a bit more time to tension the blade,
some of us appreciate the increased accuracy and control we then get.
It may be only a subtle difference, and some people may not notice
it, especially those who’s sawing needs do not include really precise
accurate and consistant cutting. If you look through the postings of
people here on Orchid who’ve enthousiastically endorsed Lee’s saw,
you might note that there are a lot of people who could rightly be
called experts with a saw, who’ve decided that this is a good thing,
worth paying considerably more for than a standard frame. So there
must be something to it for many people beyond just looking cool
(though I too like that part…) For my own part, as a commercial
goldsmith, I work a lot in platinum as well as gold. At the prices of
metals, I don’t like to waste metal, or time, or to get results that
require more finishing or correction afterwards due to miscuts. I
keep my old saw frame on the bench loaded with a thin strip of
abrasive film. That’s one thing the Knew concept frame cannot do.
But I don’t use it much for sawblades any more. It simply works
better, and does a better job. It may be slightly slower to install a
blade until you get used to it (and by now, I am), but I break fewer
blades, and my work is more accurate with this tool.

But everyone is different. If you don’t like yours, I’m sure you can
find someone here on Orchid who’ll happily buy yours from you…

Peter Rowe

Can you say "work in progress"? 

Lee, with all due respect, you sound like you are using Microsoft’s
marketing plan. Throw it on the market, find out what doesn’t work,
and then charge people for the upgrade. And I am glad that your
friend can use it to make 7000 cuts quickly…I can’t even make
one…Teddy

Just want to say I have one of the original 5" saws and love it -
and got the current model 3" saw as my Valentine’s present from my
husband, and love it. Not sure why folks are having so much trouble,
unless they are misunderstanding how it functions - which is NOT the
way “traditional” saws function (in terms of inserting and
tightening the blades).

I never reach for my old saws now… just the (K)new ones!

Will save up for the newest model…Mother’s Day maybe???

We started a new activity at our last NC Society of Goldsmith’s
meeting of having everyone bring one favorite studio item to show
folks. It is nice to be able to see and touch things you’ve read
about or seen in a catalog. I kicked it off by bringing my (K)new
saws, which were a big hit as most folks had not had the chance to
handle one in person.

I’m a happy customer!

Beth Wicker
Three Cats and a Dog Design Studio
http://www.bethwicker.com

Hello Brent,

You asked “who cares if the Knew saw is rigid…” I don’t have an
answer, but I DO know that I haven’t broken a blade using the Knew
saw. Period. The blade is changed because it begins to dull, not
because it has broken. And I’ll admit to using cheap blades.

It is possible that the Knew saw corrects bad sawing technique. :wink:
Regardless, I really like mine.

Judy in Kansas, where the asparagus is finally coming up and the
strawberries are blooming like crazy. Strawberry jam soon!

Firstly to all who prefer to use their standard steel saw
frames,thats fine. I am of the opinion that I can never have too many
bench tools and as I am getting older I can really appreciate the
lightness of my Knew Concept saw frames. One of my largest recent
piercing jobs was a pair of 10 inch diameter lampshades that required
piercing before being plique a-jour enamelled. Each lampshade had
4,250 interior holes to pierce out, thats a total of 8.500 blade
changes. I used my 5 inch Knew Concepts titanium frame with it’s
quick release lever and it worked perfectly. And when you are
piercing for a total of 120 hours, as I was on these shades, I can
tell you that I really appreciate having such a lightweight saw
frame, and I did work my way through 7dozen, Glardon Vallorbe Super
3.0 size, piercing saw blades before you ask. Peace, good health and
happy piercing to all

James Miller FIPG

i have not yet purchased this saw, although i am contemplating it.
but, i read all the time how folks load their blades and i thought
i’d add how i do it. when i first learned how to put a blade in with
the pressing against the chest, i thought “oww, that’s painful. not
doing that again.” so i put the blade in the bottom screw part first
(sorry i don’t know the correct name for that). after that is in, i
put the blade in the upper screw part and then straddle the bottom of
the saw frame over the upper part of the bench pin. i then make sure
the blade is in there and put my left thumb over the front so the
blade cannot pop out and then put the rest of my left hand over the
frame above the top end of the blade and rest my jaw on there (talk
about tight compression) and then turn that screw. i usually have to
remove my blades cos they are just plain worn out, and i do tons of
piercing. is my description good? hard to explain it without a
visual.

no more hurting body parts for me.
anne

Brian,

Thanks for being the “point man” on this topic. You are always
accommodating with good suggestions and solutions.

Funny, I was dreaming last night that I was piercing a beautiful,
intricate design in gold, using a saw that had only a single tiny
blade. It had a circular handle with a grip, (sort of like a scissors
handle) and a long thin serrated needle blade, that’s it. No frame.
The saw blade was so strong, all I had to do was insert it into the
hole and saw, then move on to the next space. No blade reinsertions
to deal with.

Now, that kind of tool would be PRICELESS! Do we have any "space age"
metals that would work like that?

Virginia

I have both models and vastly prefer the lever-operated one. I never
had much of a problem with the press-against-the-chest move in
general. But if you’re also trying to juggle an awkward piece you’re
piercing, the lever makes it way easier- especially if the blade
gets a little bent

But, the fact that this beauty is so sweet to saw with is perhaps
the best feature of all.

Allan
silvermason.com

Hello all, I have both the 3" and the 5" knew saw. I use the 5" for
everything and the 3" with a fine spiral blade for wax. The money I
save on broken blades and time not lost changing them has more than
paid for the frames.

I’m afraid I ignore that really cool tensioning lever at the top and
just tighten the frame the traditional way and it works fine. This is
a very good product, but to each his/her own.

Have fun.
tom arnold

Hi Virginia,

Nope. Unfortunately, until somebody manages to get me some Niven
MonoWire, there’s nothing out there that’s rigid enough to cut like a
jeweler’s saw without being massively thick. Compare the difference
in thickness between jigsaw blades (which are held in tension from
both ends) and Sabre saw blades, which are only supported at the
base. The jigsaw blades are 1/2 the thickness, and 1/4 the width, yet
cut far more accurately, as they’re held in tension, rather than
flopping around loose like sabre saw blades.

Regards,
Brian

This is interesting that everyone who uses the old fashioned
sawframe "positions it between his/her chest and the table"! 

I have a Swedish saw frame, because it cost me $5. I’m getting a new
one at some stage. because I’m not really happy with it, so I have
been paying attention to the discussion about the Knew Concept saw
frame.

I just squeeze the front and back of the frame with my free hand,
pings fine.

Mind you I have fairly robust hands (a side effect of forging and
playing bagpipes).

Regards Charles A.

We got our KCs a few months ago, and we haven’t used our old saw
frames since. Yes, they are a bit more fiddley (we have the screw),
but the blade breakages are quantitively lower, so overall it makes
no odds. And the action of the frame is better. The ability to
precisely set the blade tension is something that I really like - do
the cams allow this flexibility?

I have a sternum injury which I’m sure was caused by bruising from
leaning on saw frames. Quite why is easier to lean on the KC rather
than turn the screw is utterly, utterly baffling to me.

I suppose that a certain amount of backlash is inevitable as the
frames become more popular. It’s possible that there are people who
don’t want or need the frames, but are buying them because it’s
"cool". Anyone fancy a game of marbles? Cowboys and Indians?

Jamie Hall
http://primitive.ganoksin.com

I just have to put my two cents in about the knew saw. I love it. I
had to call to ask how to change blades, I am not very mechanical,
but once I knew how to use it, it is just as easy to use as my
traditional jewelers saw and works much better. I don’t break as
many blades and yes it’s really cool looking. Worth the money in my
opinion.

Cynthia Cameron Design

Lee

Have you considered a trade-in program for those of us that have
trouble with your original saw?

LaVerne

Hi Gang,

I’m posting this for Lee, as his home computer’s…having issues.

some thoughts: 

Brian and I have been working on a solution for some time on how
to retrofit the cam-lever tensioning to the spring/knurled nut
saw frame. It was never my intention to make orphans of the
original frame, and leave the first adopters in the lurch. 

We now have a kit available that can be retrofitted. It entails
some sawing however, so you can be glad that you still have your
old frame. 

You have to cut away the upper spring perch and the area on both
sides to make room for the brass nut. The lever is installed
along with a bridge piece, your old upper clamp is re-installed,
and you are now back in operation. 

As always, it looks simple after the fact. Pricing is still
being worked out as we just put the first one together this
afternoon, but it is looking like the $25.00 range for the kit. 

Lee (the saw guy) 

Brian again:

There’s a photo of the prototype of the upgrade on my blog. (easiest
place to put the picture)

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/jf

along with a few more comments about it.

Regards,
Brian

PS–> For the folks with the newer sawframes, that never had the
spring, there’s a much easier upgrade that’ll be available for your
saws at the same time.

I don't use the Knew saw because it takes so much times to fiddle
with blades. It looks wonderful on my bench.. but I can slam a
blade into a traditional frame in maybe five seconds. 

I LIKE piercing, and the finer the detail the better. Lees’ saw gives
me the best control I can find and recommend his saw to anyone who
wants quality in their work. It took me a little while to learn how
to handle the blade tensioning but now I wouldn’t part with my 3"
aluminum frame for anything but possibly the titanium model. My saw
looks wonderful on the bench too, but the results in my work look
even better. But then I don’t slam blades into my frame. To each
his/her own.

Didn't anyone ever see the little brass knob on the bottom of the
saw frame? If you put the saw blade in both the top and bottom
slots and tighten them.......set the little brass knob on the table
top and pull down on the handle, then tighten the screw at the bend
of the metal frame - you will get a nice ping and never have to put
the handle in your chest again. 

D’oh! (Forehead slap). Never thought of that, never heard of it
before. I think I’m too much in my habits to change, but what you say
sure makes sense.

Noel

All, I have been using the Knew Concept for over a year and
absolutely love it. I have the screw tensioner type and find that I
don’t have to ‘fiddle’ with my saw blades at all; they insert into
the bottom, then the top, then get screwed in place then tensioned.
It’s easy. I haven’t had any problems with mine and I use it every
day. I love how light it is and how easy to use for simple sawing or
complex piercing.

Susan

I don’t have a problem with my saw. I love it. Ordered a second one.
The fact that the blade is held absolutely solid and can’t warble
around, the tensioning device is wonderful, my sawing improved
immediately after getting it. And the red color! Thank you.

I think any new innovation has a learning curve. I didn’t mind
leaning into my old saw to put in a blade, but my Knew saw is so
much better. A

Thanks Lee et al.

Carla
artinthehighdesert.com