Negotiating with retailers

I had assumed when I started out that I would sell only through
galleries and had my “dream gallery” in mind. The owner loved my
work and wanted to carry it but dealing with her was a drag from
start to finish. First I waited two months to even start with her
because she said “it’s dead here in August and September.” Then I
sent her my consignment contract at the end of September and never
heard from her. I called and called and called (she was 5-1/2 hours
away from my home) without getting to talk to her. Finally I caught
her and she told me that she did not plan to read my consignment
contract—just too busy! She wanted a handshake only. She also told
me my prices were way too high and that she wanted 50% of retail.
She promised me that with those terms I would do well.

The truth is that with those terms, the stress on me to produce
would have been heavy since I could not have made any profit
whatsoever.

Since she was too busy to ever talk to me and too busy to read my
contract and had no insurance to cover my work and wanted me to
lower my prices so much, I decided not to consign with her.

I have since then done three shows and have been able to sell at the
prices I originally set. I am kind of turned off the idea of
consignment.

I also saw an article in one of the craft magazines that quoted
another gallery that I thought I might approach. The owner said “an
unknown artist wanted me to charge $100.00 (I think that was the
amount) for his work!” This left me with the idea that gallery
owners were always going to expect new artists to sell for “dirt.”

J. S. Ellington
jsellington@cs.com

I must say that I’ve found the varied responses to this thread
fascinating–many good points and comments have been made (I
especially enjoyed the recent posts by Larry, Richard, and Lisa) even
when the authors were argueing from opposite positions!

I’m not an artists nor craftperson (what exactly is the difference
between the two anyway?) though I have good eye and appreciation for
the creative process and technical skills; regardless, since I’ve
been on both the import/wholesale and retail side of the business, I
do think I’m in somewhat a unique position to comment.

Basically I think it all boils down to three things:

  1. It’s tough at there right now for most of us, and we all need to
    vent a little.

  2. RARELY have I meet someone (in any field) who felt that they were
    being paid what their time and/or talent was truly worth.

  3. The grass always seems greener on the other side. (I remember
    when I used to be strictly wholesale I used to think the retailers
    had it made what with their incredible markups, getting to go home
    and sleep in their own beds every night, etc.; now that I’ve got the
    "golden handcuffs" on and am imprisoned in my store or office six
    days a week I pine for the gypsy life of overseas buying trips, the
    freedom of the road, blah blah blah).

  4. In any financial transaction, if both parties walk away grumbling
    and feeling the other guy got the better end of the stick, it’s
    probably safe to say that a fair deal was struck by both!

Three last things I want to say and then no moRe:

  1. Slow pay and worse No pay retailers SUCK! When you make a deal,
    keep your word! If you truly don’t have the money to pay, then pony
    up the credit card–any wholesaler or crafter will be willing to eat
    the 2% to get the money NOW! Besides, you’ll get frequent flyer
    miles, or at the very least in this market zero interest for 6
    months!

  2. Did you eat today? Got a roof over your head and a bed to sleep
    in? Got a job or talent or some means of making money and/or
    obtaining food tomorrow? Then you ought to be on your knees thanking
    God–most people on this planet would do and risk nearly anything to
    have your life.

  3. Any wholesalers or importers on this site have relatively
    affordable, good looking, great selling silver jewelry to sell? Email
    or snail mail me info!

White Buffalo
19501 Biscayne Blvd.

1998

Aventura, FL 33180 USA
@Doug_Dreyfus

This left me with the idea that gallery owners were always going to
expect new artists to sell for "dirt." 

Hi, J.S.-- A sweeping statement like this, fotunately, is seldom the
case. Some gallery owners are jerks, and some are very nice. They
are, however, forced to be realistic and clear-eyed if the are to
stay in business.

If a gallery has been there a while, and especially if they have
artists who stay with them, then the owner can be presumed to know
the local market. The ones I have dealt with seem to take my prices
into account in deciding whether to accept my work. I have been told
things like, “I love this, but people won’t pay that for it here”.
But the galleries where I have consigned (a good number, over the
years) never argue with me about the price-- I’ve always had the
impression that that’s part of the deal with consignment. They don’t
(necessarily) get to pick and choose the work, or set the price.
That’s what wholesale is for. If I ask what they think about a piece
or a price, I expect and usually get a frank opinion. It’s
understood–it’s just business, not a personal thing.

It sounds as though you may not have a clear sense that you can’t
generally set the same price to a gallery as to the public, in terms
of what you receive. They must double what you get. I look at it as,
50% of the price is for making it, 50% is for selling it. If I sell
it, I get both. If someone else sells it, they get that 50%. A good
deal, from my point of view, as I don’t particularly like the
selling part. I do a handful of retail shows a year, for income but
even more to see how people respond to my work (very valuable
feedback) and to raise my profile.

Gallery owners can be a great source of about pricing
and what will sell. I have occasionally had owners tell me to
charge more. But of course, they do have a different agenda than you
do, never doubt it!

The woman who doesn’t have time to read your contract, etc-- I think
you were exactly right. Legally binding, fair, written agreements
are essential, as is insurance for your work while they have it. But
they’re not all like her. And there are thousands of galleries out
there-- just keep trying. Good luck, HTH,

–Noel

   I'm so glad to see this thread, as I've been wringing my hands
over just this problem the last week or so. I've got a store in LA
and the owner wants to do 50/50% consignment. I'm trying to be firm
and hold out for 60/40% (she has not responded yet to this split).
I am new at selling my work and at consignment in general and
cannot decide which is better -- to get my work out there even at
50/50%, to just set a price, or to hold out for 60/40%. 
I am a little confused by this thread. For those that consign, are

your pieces so price sensitive that pricing your work at 50-50, with
you getting for your 50% the same amount as what you would get if it
was a 60-40 split keeping your pieces from selling?

It means a $100 item at 50-50 would be $120 if the artist gets 60%
and the gallery keystones, if I did my math right. 20% does not seem
to be a lot to me in this day and age where people pay $4 for
coffee.

Is any of this sentiment derived from an artist feeling like the
gallery does not deserve what they get for selling, after you put all
that hard work into making it? I have heard talk like this from
artists at craft shows over the years. I have found that if I find
people who love my work and promote it, it sells. If is an attempt
to increase inventory to sell more, but they aren’t emotional about
my work, it has less of a chance of selling. Your work will not
necessarily sell itself, no matter how well made, or how well
designed.

A good sales person can get that $20. One other issue, recogize which
items you make that you get paid better for your time and or
materials, and do more of that, lee experients. Don’t try to make the
retail client or the gallery pay for your learning curve. Know your
strengths and weaknesses. Make more of the pieces you can get paid
better for, and some pieces that you take more time to learn on, and
get paid for learning new things, but not make much of a profit. As
your skills develop and your speed increases, you get paid more for
less time. Develope your name and you can charge more for materials.

This is what has happened to me as a custom jeweler with my own
retail store. If I take in consignment, I pay the artist what they
want. I keystone, and will discount off my side!!! If you set your
price, and the gallery owner can sell it for more than keystone, as
long as they sell your work, and give you what you ask for, it is
none of your business what they sell it for. They developed their
client base and you should be grateful. They get paid for their
expertise at what they are good at. Isn’t that what you want? I
learned a long time ago, pay people what they are worth, because you
want to be paid what you are worth. Devalue others and you devalue
yourself. In consciousness there is no them or us. Hard for me to
aknowledge at times, but I usually get around to that way of
thinking sooner or later.

Richard in Denver

All, There was a time, and not too long ago, when I was of the mind
that all galleries and retailers were out to rip off everyone. Now my
thoughts are that there are some who are and some who are not. Most
are just business people trying to win in a very competitive market.
It most often is not a case of here comes a newby let’s rip them off.
The case is - here comes a newby - how do I explain to this person
the difficulty of running this business for a profit without
offending them.

As a gemstone cutter it was unfortunate that for 20 years most of my
customers were very profitable jewelers who squeezed every penny
they could get their hands on. For the last 10 years I am dealing
more with the whole spectrum of customers and I see a different
light. For me now it is not nearly so personal just business. Take
the emotion out and what is left is two business entities trying to
make a profit. If you can not make a deal then shake hands and walk
away. Do not have bad feelings as it is a business deal that you are
better off not being a part of if the deal did not fit your business
plan.

Artists - Do you have a business plan? Does your plan specify what
percentage of the selling price should go in your pocket. My plan
says that I need at least 25% of the selling price to go into my
pocket. I calculate this after I take into consideration all the
cost associated with selling the product. If my show costs, booth
rent plus travel, lodging, food, and anything else associated with
selling, goes over 25% of the total show gross then it is not a
worthwhile business investment. The same goes for selling at a
gallery. No gallery I know can accept consignment at 25%, therefore
I do not look at galleries for marketing.

One of the hardest points I have had to overcome is that an artist
must learn to market or they will be forever locked into a second
class existence. Marketing is the key to success. I now put at
least 30% of my time into marketing. I am being more successful with
less production and enjoying the process a lot more.

Gerry Galarneau

Hello Orchidians, As usual Noel has some level-headed comments in her
posting about dealing with galleries. I would suggest that an artist
develop two lines - one priced wholesale and marketed exclusively
through galleries or other stores (with their potential mark-up in
mind), and the rest to be sold at retail by the artist. The artist
has control over the price in any case. It’s an attitude thing. Judy
in Kansas where the temps are 95F, but the humidity is down in the
50s… thank goodness. Unfortunately the grasshoppers are
stripping my tomato plants