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Model Master Training Experience

Hi Dennis,

Boy, I feel your pain in regard to the frustration. When I was
looking at systems a year ago, I spoke with ModelMaster and I like
the products but was not so impressed with the owners and the calls
I made to find out about their support. They are known for NOT
HAVING GOOD TECH SUPPORT. Artcam is an EXCELLANT product, but that
doesn’t matter if you don’t know how to use it. I can put you in
touch with an organization that has many Artcam users that will be
able to help you out. There are also a few that use the Model Master
Mills as well. That may be your only salvation. I do know of
another potential place for training, but I can’t talk about it
here.

I opted to go with GEMVISION myself and purchased Matrix and the REVO
mill. I’m not one bit sorry for my decision. Gemvision has the
BEST tech support in the industry when it comes to the design
software. They’re just getting off the ground with REVO, but I’m
not a machinest either and nothing is easier to use in the Machining
world than REVO. I know, because I also own a MaxNC mill as well
that I use Deskproto for CAM. As soon as I got back from training on
Matrix and REVO, I was making models and making money. That’s the
KEY!!! If your trying to figure out all this stuff on your own, then
why’d you spend $2,000 for training.

I’m not one for putting people down or companies for that matter.
But, my experience with ModelMaster and the references they gave me
always had the same story that your giving here right now. They
really do have Excellent products, but what good are they if you
can’t get the training or help when you NEED IT!

If you want me to help you out and put you in contact with the
right people that I’m sure will share and help you out, please
contact me off list.

Take Care,

Kevin Fertenbaugh
KEF Jewelry Designs, Inc. / Hasko Jewelers
@Kevin_Fertenbaugh1

Hello,

We own Both the Artcam and the Matrix programs. We run a modelmaster
mill and an Invision HR 3d printer.

I have had training from both companies, and while different, I
could not say that one was superior over the other.

I think that the gemvision training was a bit too slow for us and
that the Artcam training may have been a bit too fast, if I may be
allowed to simplify the whole thing.

I would have to say that my experience was vastly different from
yours. I received personal in house training, and was making models
on the modelmaster very quickly. I think that there is a steep
learning curve to be sure, but once over the hump, we have been very
productive with both programs.

People approach the cad cam area with great expectations and think
that they will be making any design they want right away. I like to
compare it to learning to make jewelry. You didn’t learn to make
jewelry overnight, think back to when you set your first stone, it
was probably very difficult. But you persevered and now sizings,
stone settings and the like are pretty easy. Its the same with cad
cam. You can only absorb so much at a time and then you must repeat
and repeat things till you get then right.

I did have a few initial problems with software, actually codes for
milling (I had the wrong ones) but it was rectified quickly.

In general it is probably quicker to get a response from Gemvision
to your questions, but mine have always been rectified with
Artcam/Modelmaster as well. Also the Artcam user group is very good
at helping you solve difficulties.

I know that there is new documentation being written for
Modelmaster, not much comfort to those who have the machines now
perhaps, but it should be excellent when its done.

Time and again a project has been completed or time has been saved
by using one program over the other. I think that it comes down to
how you design now, what type of work that you do and the overall
needs of your shop. With this criteria some would be bettor off with
Artcam, others would be better off with Matrix.

As a service bureau we need to be able to do many different kinds of
designs in as short a time as possible, and we find both programs
invaluable.

contact us with further questions
Thomas Cavagnaro, GG
Cadsmithing, LLC A Service Bureau
480 688 4136
cadsmith@cox.net
www.cadsmithing.com

Boy, I could DISAGREE more with Kevin. I have been very impressed
with ModelMasters tech support. Every time I have called they have
been able to help me quickly. I will state that in the 3 years I
have had teh CNC1000 I probably haven’t called more than 5 times
becasue their training has been great. For what it’s worth, I’m no
expert, but we are producing some really nice 3 sided rings. And
like Kevin said with his Revo mill, the day I got back from training
I was making usable rings on my ModelMaster setup

Email off list if you have questions (zachary at Freshmans dot com).
I’m sure GemVision has a nice product too, but I just don’t like
seeing people bash ModelMaster because I’m a HUGE fan.

Zach

Zach and All,

I don’t post very often and I guess I’m a bit rusty at phrasing
things so they will not be taken out of context.

ModelMaster products are all VERY GOOD !!! There’s no bones about it.
I myself am looking at Artcam to ad to my arsenel of tools as well. I
did not intend to begin a contest of who’s better or what not, It has
nothing to do with that at all. My only point was that if you are
having a problem and the money you invested in this technology, you
should EXPECT good support and nothing less.

My advice would symply be to call the company and speak with them
about the training you recieved. If they Value you as a customer,
they should be willing to go out of their way to get you up and
running. If not there are some VERY GOOD outside options to get
help.

As someone else stated, there is DEFINATELY a learning curve to this
technology as there is with any. It will take time to learn
procedures and develope a system for integrating it into your
business. It will take time to learn how to Strategize when
designing to know what can and can’t be done with the technology.

My personal choice was to go with Gemvision only because they
offered the shortest learning curve I could find for integrating that
technology which was my CHOICE. It fit my business goals and my
shortage of TIME to bring this exciting technology to my business.

So PLEASE this is not a contest of any sort. I do apologize if I’ve
offended anyone personally.

Take Care,

Kevin Fertenbaugh
KEF Jewelry Designs, Inc. / Hasko Jewelers
prosperity@pobox.com

Kevin,

No offense taken of course. I was just stating my positive
experience to offset someone’s negative. I think you are right in
saying that all these products are great. If they were free I’d want
them all :slight_smile:

Zach

Hello Everyone,

I would like to make some comments about a particular post made by
Dennis and his experience with Model Master. I found out that
Dennis has been extremely high maintenance. He has made 13 calls,
received over 6 hours of documented tech support from the main
office, and who knows how many calls he has made to his trainer. I
know this is true because they log the calls.

Most of the problems he has had have been very easy to fix, but all
he really wants to do when he calls is complain about how things
suck with the company.

I was so surprised when I read his post because my experience with
Model Master is the exact opposite. I now have 2 of the MM Mills
and they keep me producing more than I can handle. I consider MM to
be friends as they have always gone out of their way to help me. I
get so frustrated when I read a posting like that. The thing that I
don=92t understand about the posting Dennis made is that he stated he
was able to use Autocad. Well Autocad is a lot harder to use and it
is nothing like artcam. It is more like Rhino and Matrix, and I
know for a fact at least half of those users fail with it. Model
Master has the knowledge and communication skills to help just about
anyone.

Like Dennis, I am a jeweler and besides working with artcam, and the
occasional orchid post, that is as computer literate as I get. When
I bought my first mill and went for my training I knew I was going
to have to work at the program, but when I had trouble understanding
something, I didn=92t start crying and whining, this and that sucks
about MM. The guy even admits that he has done quite a bit with it.
I=92m not sure if this guy thinks just because he paid for his
machine and software that MM were going to give him the =93magic
touch=94 and he would be able to do everything all at once without
having to work at it. Anyway I don=92t mean to rant and rave, but I
have some advice for anyone out there interested in CadCam. Do your
homework, I think you will find there is no better product than what
you get from MM, but you decide. Gain some basic computer skills,
and for heavens sake when you get frustrated don=92t go on a public
forum saying this and that sucks about the company you bought it
from. I would love to be a fly on the wall at MM next time Dennis
calls for support. I know what I would tell him!

Best Wishes All!
Zack

Hi Zach (Kelly),

Well Zach, normally I wouldn’t do this but in Dennis’s defense, what
you’re saying is way off base.

You in your statements simply have proved my initial point.
Everyone comes into this technology with varying degrees of
background and computer experience. Each software package
regardless of which one it is has it’s own learning curve. Some
people will demand more attention than others. It’s admirable that
you picked up the technology fairly easily. And you’re right it will
take an investment of time to learn this stuff. But that in no way
negates the companies obligation to help the man out. You learning
it on your own or as easily as you have just means you’ll be able to
apply the technology more efficiently resulting in better profits.
Isn’t that what it’s all about. It’s like when people who go BUY a
book, some people will skim through and never read a champter. Some
will read a chapter or so and then never finish it. Some will read
the WHOLE thing and have it stimulate them in some way that creates
a change that could lead to even monetary rewards.

The bottom line here is that it is completely irrelevant HOW MANY
CALLS the guy makes to the company for support. THATS WHAT TECH
SUPPORT is all about. If people in business have too thin a skin
to except that maybe they have to make some changes, then nothing
anyone says is going to help them. I don’t want to see anyone in
particular leading the pack. Competition is what leads to GREAT
PRODUCTS no matter what it is. But for crying out loud CUSTOMER
SERVICE is what accounts for GOOD business. So don’t go dumping on
this guy when he’s just frustrated when maybe you yourself could
help him in some way if you choose to do so.

By the way, unless you actually work for the company you shouldn’t
mind criticism of the company you support when if they listen to the
complaints and make changes, it only improves their position in the
market place. Heck I’ve been flogged myself in business and
sometimes you have to swollow hard and ask yourself some empowering
questions. How do I keep this from happening again?

None of this makes them evil demons in my book, on the contrary, it
will hopefully make them BETTER!

Take Care,
Kevin Fertenbaugh
KEF Jewelry Designs, Inc./ Hasko Jewelers
prosperity@pobox.com

Hey folks,

This is Dennis, I just wanted to let you all know what is going on
for me with ModelMaster. I received a phone call from Mike, one of
the principals there. He was very concerned that I had had
problems. We had a very constructive conversation. He hadn’t been
aware of my problems, and was very interested in helping me. I
don’t think that this was only because of my letter. I think that
if we had been able to speak earlier none of this would have
occurred. I feel reassured about my working with them. For whatever
reasons, I do believe that I had simply fallen thru the cracks and
this can happen to anyone anywhere. So… I feel that now
everything is going to work out great.

As I mentioned in my earlier letter I do like the program very much
and am very pleased with its abilities. I also think that the mill
works very well.

I was able to start milling pieces successfully pretty quickly and
they are getting better and better. I look forward to learning more
and its going to be fine. I feel that we will have a very good
relationship in the future. Thanks to those who wrote me and I will
keep in touch.

Dennis

I should jump in here. I have been evaluating different jewelry
cadcam systems for a bit in prep for purchase and have narrowed down
to the two being discussed here. While interested in anyones opinion,
I give more weight to those who use both programs. And it seems from
what I can tell, that they are both excellent.

Now everything that Mr. Kelly just said may be true. But if so, it
leads to an even more disturbing thought than that of less than
stellar service. That ModelMaster would release to the public the
records of a customers calls for assistance is troubling to say the
least.

I would much rather read of the strengths of each program than
personal disagreements.

Thank you,
Dwight McCartney
watchmaker

First off let me warn that this is sort of a long post, sorry.

I have chimed in more than usual on this post due to the fact that I
am a huge Modelmaster Fan. The strengths I have found with them have
been first and foremost, the training. The two days you will spend
out there are great to get you rolling along and producing jewelry
right away. You should know the basics of running wondows however
before you go out there (saving, opening files, etc) or you will be
wasting everyone’s time and your money. You should also have a
little understanding of a drawing program such as CorelDRAW or the
like. This will allow you to focus on making jewelry, not learning
how to draw simple shapes.

I also really like how their setups grow. I went about 2 years
without really contacting them. I just cruised along and used their
setup every day, and everything was peachy. Then at Tuscon this last
year I met up with them and I was amazed at the new stuff they were
doing. Jewlesmith v6 was a huge improvement over ArtCAM v5 that I
had, plus the 3 sided milling opened up new possibilites I had
thought baout, but never figured out. They don’t sit still at
ModelMaster. Than has been my experience.

In regard to releasing customer’s info, I am skeptical that’s what
happened. When I was out there last winter to get some additional
trainging, I saw a map that showed various locations around the
world they had set up. I noticed a few pushpins in my area. When I
asked, they very skillfully changed the subject. I took the hint and
droppped it. They have always been very professional in my opinion.

Bottom line both programs seem nice. Get examples of what you want
to do and have them demo to fit your needs. Both guys will demo what
the software can do easily, get them do make it do what you need it
to do. And by all means spend the money and see them in person at a
show

There, sorry for the long post, that’s my 2 cents or maybe 4 cents.
If you have any questions concerning my experiences with Model
Master I’d be glad to answer them.

Zach

Dear Zach,

Good story about your model master experience. Do you know if
Jewelsmith v6, can make also STL files for rapid prototyping?

Greetings
Martin Niemeijer
N design
compositions in precious metal
Rieteweg 10
8041 AK, Zwolle
Netherlands

   Do you know if Jewelsmith v6, can make also STL files for rapid
prototyping? 

It Does, although a bit more involved then just using an export
command.

Yes it can. From what Cecily at Model master told me it is better
than many programs at making STL’s. I guess less chance of opening
them in another program and they are exploded. I dunno, I never had
a problem with Rhino either.

Zach