So I am looking to create cloisonne cells in my work BUT instead of filling them with enamel, I am looking to use them as more of a decorative feeling that will later have different materials glued into them(gasp glue!?!?) My base metal is ancient bronze because really with the crazy going on in the country(USA) precious metals are well outside my budget. I wanted to ask, if I was to use the rolling mill and flatten out bronze wire to the necessary dimensions, could I use it like the traditional cloisonne wire (gold, silver)? would there be any issue with attaching the wire to the base metal? thanks!
Soldering bronze bezel or cloisonne wire to a bronze plate shouldn’t be a problem. It’s going to be a little harder to solder than fine silver to fine silver, because the bronze will oxidize faster, but you should be able to do that. Does that answer your question? Let me know if I misunderstood the question.
Thanks!
Jeff
Thank you Jeff, yes/no I guess my understanding was that cloisonne wire is ALWAYS gold or silver…so I was just wondering if by flattening bronze wire and then treating/using it like reg. cloisonne wire, if that would work. but thank you for the pro tip!
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When I’ve tried applying enamel to cast silicon bronze, it shivered off upon cooling; I guess the coefficients of expansion didn’t match closely enough. I’m not sure if this is the case with every bronze alloy, but before getting too involved in the project, I’d suggest doing some simple experiments.
I dabble a bit in both filigree and enamel. For me, traditional filigree is very fine (24 - 26 gauge) fine silver wire twisted tight and rolled flat and formed into different pleasant shapes that are contained inside sterling silver frames. All these elements are soldered together and a piece is made. I can see where enamel could be included in the cells created by this process, as in plique a jour or cloisonne. but you have to be mindful of the need to have the enamel and the metal that contains it be of similar coefficients of expansion. There is also the concern for firescale creating an environment that prevents enamel from covering the firescale. Copper appears to come closest to enamel in their coefficients of expansion. I am not sure about the various bronzes. I have also experimented with including various resins (2 part, 1 part, UV etc.) inside the cells and other depressions of the pieces that I make. The resin world is very large and a subject that you can get lost in if you allow yourself to. My goal has always been to add color and texture to what I have done for years. The problem with many resins is that they are, for me, messy, and don’t cure to a hard enough finish. I am always looking for lapidary hardness. You are on a journey that will, if you let it, take you to many places, but be prepared to spend some time and be frustrated. Good luck…Rob
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I dunno where I found it but was recommended to use ONLY zinc free bronze(aka ancient bronze), as that was the only version of bronze that would accept enamelling…?
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I suspect thst avoiding zinc relates to toxicity. Forging galvanized is a no no. Soldering probably is too. Inhaling zinc = brain damage.
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That is simply not true.
By all means, metal fever is no joke, it feels really bad, but you’ll be fine the next morning.
The issue about Zinc is that it has a low vapor oressure and volatalize easily. It is entirely possible that the Zinc oxide can promote firescale formation by combining with other base metal oxides.
This means it will depending on time and temperature deplete from the alloy and thus change the characteristic of the alloy.
Zinc are used to improve castability of alloys like Gold, Aluminum and others.
Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, and there’s no health issue when hard soldering it.
The problem with galvanized iron is that the zinc is not in alloy with the steel but sits as a thin coating on it. This means that at forging temperatures it will readily burn off as a zinc vapor.
Once zinc is part of an alloy, as in brass or casting bronzes, it is not as prone to burning off.
That’s why I asked if I had answered your question. I thought that you were trying other create cells in bronze that you could fill with colored resin or epoxy glue. I don’t know about enameling on bronze alloys. Like Rob said, you’ll probably need to do some experiments.
I’ve never heard about anyone enameling on Shibuichi, a Japanese alloy of copper and silver, but my guess is that it would work. Since you’re trying to save money on the high cost of silver, I thought I’d throw that out as an option to experiment with.
Shibuichi is roughly 75%-80% copper to 20%-25% silver. It’s easy to mix up if you have a good scale, the right size torch and ingot molds. It also casts well in lost wax casting.
Also, I’ve made this alloy of ancient bronze (90% copper and 10% tin) before. I did it as a demonstration for an archeology class. I was surprised by how easy it was to make. I took the ingot that I cast and forged it out into a simple knife shape for the class. It also forged well.
I don’t know how well ancient bronze enamels, but it sounds like you’re going find out and can report back to us!
Jeff
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Sorry I think my question got lost in translation. Yes I AM going to fill in the cells with non firing enamel substances and other materials. However I was simply wanting to know if flattening bronze wire to mimic cloisonne wire then using it as such was sufficient to CREATE the cells - reason being I wanted it to be of all one metal.…sorry about the vague questioning.
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All you need for resin is a slight depression in just about any type of material. You do need to be mindful of the background as it will show through some resins unless they are opaque. You also might want to cut the bottom larger than the top so that the resin is keyed into the cell. This depends a lot on the resin or glue. After all, they are really glue. Look at Durenamel and Colores. The problem that I have with colored resins is that they have a shelf life and I throw a lot of it away. It is also expensive. You usually have to mix a minimum amount which is always far more than I need for any one job. I have yet to find a UV resin that cures hard. Otherwise it is very easy to work with. There are a number of very helpful resine user sites to look at…Rob
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Resin not resine sights, sorry. Look at Resin Obesession, Cool Tools, Alumilite, RBC Industries. The list is long, but this is a start…Rob