Melting torch

Jewelry Discussion
21

I use a Smith Little Torch too, and find its maneuverability due to
its small size and lightweight hoses to be a great asset at the
bench. It delivers all the BTUs I need for platinum bench work. But I
would not use it for casting.

I have a Harris Model 16 with a rosebud tip that is perfect for
annealing, melting and casting gold and silver. It’s smaller, lighter
and much easier to handle than a regular casting torch, but it is a
real internal mixing casting torch. I wouldn’t recommend it for
platinum, but for anything less than ten or fifteen ounces of
sterling or gold, it’s ideal. I got mine from Gesswein. I use a Meco
Weldmaster cutting torch body with a custom made mixing tube and tip
for platinum, and run all of my torches on LP and O2. I use “Y”
fittings on gas and O2 for the casting torches and two of the Little
Torches.

Please use flame arrestors on all of your torches, at the torch on
casting torches and at the end of the hoses on the Little Torch.
Cheap insurance.

Dave Phelps
precisionplatinumjewelry.com

22

I can’t help but draw a parallel to my first career as a carpenter.
The first few years I tried every weight of hammer from 16 oz to 28
oz. I finally settled down with a 20 oz hammer that I could use for
all around work without running to my truck to change hammers. After
all one does not want a reputation of carrying around a toolbox full
of hammers. Having a tool box full of hammers is an old construction
term referring to a craftsman who does crappy work, but to a
metalsmith the one who has the most hammers when he dies wins…

For my silver and occasionally gold work my 20 oz hammer is a
prest-o-lite torch. I use a #3 tip for most applications adjusting
the flame as needed and switch to a #1 for fine work and a #5 for
belt buckles, large bracelets, and melting ingots and annealing when
I’m rolling out sheet. Now if you are using a Smith Little torch for
melting, in my opinion, you are using a tack hammer to drive a
railroad spike no matter which tip you use.

Of course YMMV. Find the torch that works for you for most of your
bench work than keep the other(s) around for when you need a special
application.

Rick Copeland
Silversmith and Lapidary Artisan
rockymountainwonders.com

23

Trish,

Just a little question, the "little torch" would that be Butane?

Little torch is almost a brand name. Any fuel gas and oxygen. Damned
hot is possible, slightly more relaxed is easy. All the tank business
etc which gets it out of the butane league, but it is too much fun to
use.

You will get over your fear of fire and really learn to smile when
using a nasty hot (even big) flame.

jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

24

Hi Guys,

Would the Euro Torch/Swiss Torch with the Platinum Tip be able to do
the job of melting down between 5-7 oz? No more than 9 oz for the
most.

I don’t think I can fit 9 oz into my melting dish to make ingots.

Thanks,
Gian.

25 
Would the Euro Torch/Swiss Torch with the Platinum Tip be able to
do the job of melting down between 5-7 oz? No more than 9 oz for
the most.

I would like to dispose of another myth.

Torch is only a part of the answer to been able to melt metal. And
not very big part at that. Far more important is melting setup. A
torch can output BTU(s) all day long. If steps are not taken to
preserve this heat, nothing will be accomplished. Absolute any torch
can be used for melting if output of the torch is used well.

Leonid Surpin

26

I highly recommend the quick connects.

one source for the quick connects:
http://tinyurl.com/ylaxxmm

and another:
http://tinyurl.com/yk4hpds

Bill Roberts

27

Western Enterprises is the maker of ALL the ones I have in my shop:
http://www.westernenterprises.com/enterprises/PDFS/wi25.pdf

Bill Roberts

28

Peter,

I would absolutely agree with everything you said about Meco and Hoke
torches. I have used the Meco, with a bored out tip to melt a few
ounces of silver and even melt platinum. You are right, though, the
tip is not far from the handle, so working with hot melting jobs
makes it uncomfortably hot on the hand.

A longer handled torch for casting and ingot making would be
preferable. The Swiss Torch, with a somewhat long handle, has a
variety of tips that are easy to change out and make it possible to
solder tiny components and repairs, a larger tips selection for
larger soldering, and very long tips for melting and casting. It’s
extremely versatile with all the tips configurations, but in the
$400 range for all the tips and handle.

Every time I’m in the welding supply store to refill my tanks, I pick
up the Smith (or Victor?) torch they have there, with the long handle
and tips, and want that for my new casting torch, but they only sell
it with a cutting torch, which I have no need for.

Jay Whaley
Whaley Studios

29

Gian,

That long Swiss Torch platinum tip creates a lot of heat. It’s kind
of a rose-bud type tip, but the heat it produces, with propane and
oxygen is awesome. Melts platinum easily, and am confident you could
melt 8 oz. or more of silver with a big enough crucible.

Check out the WHIP (Wire handled ingot pourer) tool, now on the
market, which hold the inexpensive round melting dishes of different
sizes. It makes for easy right or left-hand pouring of ingots, and
the stainless steel handle doesn’t get hot. The major suppliers carry
both the WHIP and melting dishes.

Jay Whaley
Whaley Studios

30

Hi Gian,

The Fire Marshall in our area does not want us using Acetelyne or
Hydrogen, so I simply use Propane and Oxygen. I will continue to
use the Little Torch. Though I prefer the rosebud head to the
normal #7

There would be no problem using a a medium sized welding torch (a
Victor Comes to mind) With your propane/oxygen set up. Thats what I
use as a back up system. As someone has recently posted, there are
quick change adapters available so you can easily change the
torches.

The rose bud tipped Mini torch does work quite well and might be all
you need. Please do a search of the archives and you should find a
lot of articles and responses that I have done in the past on
casting techniques. I have not had a chance to post in a couple years
and only recently started up again.

We use a modified microphone stand to hold the torch while we cast.
This allows both hands to be free until you need to pour the metal.
The technique is presently used for Vacuum Casting, but can also be
used for Centrifugal casting.

Happy Casting,
Daniel Grandi
http://www.racecarjewelry.com

31 
Torch is only a part of the answer to been able to melt metal. And
not very big part at that. Far more important is melting setup. A
torch can output BTU(s) all day long. If steps are not taken to
preserve this heat, nothing will be accomplished. Absolute any
torch can be used for melting if output of the torch is used well.

I would certainly agree here.

All the focus has been on the torch and tips, and very little
about the melting set-up. If you are melting in a too
large, heavy melting dish, for example, and that is sitting on a
surface that sucks off the heat, like a fire brick, for instance,
you are going to have problems melting metal, regardless of the torch
you are using. I’d recommend a highly heat reflective surface to melt
on, ( Solderite, charcoal blocks, as examples) which will reflect the
heat back into the melting dish. I’d use a melting dish sized to the
amount of metal you are melting, and have that sitting on a heat
reflective surface for as long as you can, while heating with a good
sized torch flame, before pouring.

Jay Whaley

32

Hi Jay,

You can use the cutting head for a perfectly great casting torch.
That’s what I use at home. Have for years, with great results. I’ve
melted up to about a pound of bronze with it. Never tried platinum,
but gold and silver work just fine. Just remember to keep it faintly
reducing.

Just make sure you wire the cutting-jet handle up to the top of the
torch, so there’s absolutely no way you’ll ever hit that O2 jet
when you’re melting.

Without the extra cutting jet, a cutting head’s just a funny looking
rosebud. Actually, from what I remember, a cutting head has a
slightly better fuel/O2 mix for casting than a standard rosebud
does. (It’s been years since I read this, but I seem to recall
reading something from either Victor or Harris about the design of
rosebuds and cutting heads, that there was actually a difference in
the orifice sizes in the mixing chamber between the two types, and
that cutting heads had a better ratio for melting.)

They certainly have a lot more mass, which makes it a lot harder to
overheat them. Ever notice if you get a student who gets sloppy,
it’s a lot easier for them to overheat a rosebud? When was the last
time you ever heard a cutting head pop from heat? They’re designed to
live right in the middle of a cutting puddle. Very hard to overheat.

So, go get that victor, and try it out. You’ll like it.

Regards,
Brian.

33

Jay,

Every time I'm in the welding supply store to refill my tanks, I
pick up the Smith (or Victor?) torch they have there, with the long
handle and tips, and want that for my new casting torch, but they
only sell it with a cutting torch, which I have no need for.

Any good welding store can order just the parts you want from
Victor. Look on their website and get the parts numbers. Victor sells
a very nice small torch for the Model 100 tips, you should check it
out.

Daniel Culver

34 
Every time I'm in the welding supply store to refill my tanks, I
pick up the Smith (or Victor?) torch they have there, with the long
handle and tips, and want that for my new casting torch, but they
only sell it with a cutting torch, which I have no need for.

lol, a cutting torch is what I use for melting fine silver for ingot
pouring. Talk about getting metal hot and fluid fast, it does the
job well. My brother also uses this torch for large mass silver
pieces that he has to solder.

Keep in mind, most cutting torches come with tips for acetelyne, you
need different tips if your running propane.

P@

35

Brian,

Just make sure you wire the cutting-jet handle up to the top of
the torch, so there's absolutely *no way* you'll *ever* hit that O2
jet when you're melting.

It never occurred to me to use a cutting torch to cast with! One of
my private students, on a recommendation from a welding supply
employee, bought an acetylene/oxygen torch and cutting torch combo.
She bought both torches, just for the one soldering torch. She had no
use for the cutting torch, and until I read your post, neither did I!

I will now try to cut a deal to get that Victor cutting torch from
her, and check out how it works as a casting torch. It never
occurred to me to wire down the cutting-jet handle! Good idea! These
torches are sold as pairs from welding supply houses, and although
the regular torch looks like a winner for big melting and casting, I
didn’t want to spend the money for the other cutting head.

Question: will this cutting torch work on propane as well as
acetylene, with no changes? I don’t mind drilling out tips, but I’m
lost if the modifications are internal.

Good suggestion, Brian!!

Jay Whaley
Whaley Studios

36

Jay–

I have used the Meco, with a bored out tip to melt a few ounces of
silver and even melt platinum. You are right, though, the tip is
not far from the handle, so working with hot melting jobs makes it
uncomfortably hot on the hand.

At www.tinmantech.com they have a longer neck for the Meco torch. I
have trouble finding things on their site with their search feature.
I suggest calling them if you can’t find what you want on their
website. Part number AWS-0213 is the 10" neck. They also have other
interesting stuff for the Meco torch, including a rosebud tip for
propane and tips I haven’t seen elsewhere.

Whit

37

I bought an extension for my Meco Midget torch for melting smaller
amounts of metal. I don’t recall where I purchased it, so I tried
searching. Otto Frei, Rio Grande, Gesswein and could find in on none
of their sites. I did notice though that Gesswein had a note that the
Meco Midget has been discontinued by the manufacturer. Anyone know
what that’s about?

Mike DeBurgh, GJG
Henderson, NV

38

Steve Frei (of Frei and Borel) was telling me a while back that Meco
Midget torches are not made by the original manufacturers any more.
Frei and Borel carry these “new” Mecos, but I am not sure of their
quality, compared to the originals. Steve thought they were as good
as the originals, as I recall. F and B only has a reputation for
quality goods.

A local jewelry supply company I deal with still has a few of the
original Mecos in stock, and I secretly hope he doesn’t sell any of
them until I can afford to buy them from him…

Hopefully Steve Frei will post a response, and give us details.

Jay Whaley
Whaley Studios

39

Jay,

Is that Platinum Melting tip for the Swiss Torch or for the Swiss
Torch 2?

I am waiting for the store to get the regular Swiss Torch back in. I
find that the #2 is [LARGE] and a little cumbersome to use for
pouring ingots.

As for the WHIP, are you kidding me?? I personally have about 5.
They are adream come true. As for the office, they have a lot. It’s
all we use.

Gian.

40

Re - Victor Journeyman Torches are top of the line torches which
will work well with Acetylene through natural gas. They are system
torches much like the Meco Midget. I have used Victor Torches all 30

  • years of my professional career as a Journey man Millwright. You
    can not find better. There are other American made torches available
    which are well considered, but I have used them seldom if any. DO NOT
    consider Asian clone export torches The quality, durability and
    safety are not there.

If you are going to be cutting steel get the additional cutting
torch head attachment. If you already have one keep it for cutting
steel. It attaches to the mixing body of the victor combination
torches as an attachment. I have several of the larger victor
torches. I have one slightly smaller but similar called the Victor
Super Range. The mixing bodies will accept any combination of oxygen
and fuel gas. I consider the use of cutting torches as melting
torches to be less efficient and more costly.

If not abused, these mixing bodies ( The lower ends nearest the
hoses ) can be picked up used as a good deal. Take them to a good
welding supply store and have them checked. The newer mixing bodies
have built in flashback arrestors. Good thing to look for.

NEXT order a rosebud made for the fuel gas you will be using if
other than acetylene. Specify this to the dealer. Rosebuds for other
fuel gasses are similar, but not the same. You need the specific fuel
gas rosebud to stabilize the torch flame. Smaller brazing & gas
welding tips can be used, but need modifying to work well.

If You already have a cutting torch, DO NOT TIE DOWN THE HANDLE of
the cutting attachment ( If the entire torch is all one piece, it can
be used but will always be a poor compromise for melting & casting. )
Do the following.

For the cutting torch - Snug closed all valves and use moderate
pressure to hand fasten the cutting head. The cutting head has a
valve, close it… It is just for allowing the oxygen cutting jet
through the cutting tip. Ignore the handle it will not function with
the oxygen valve closed. The cutting tip is retained by a special tip
nut. Use light to moderate force when tightening it. The Tips are
numbered from # 000 ( the smallest ) to # 6 or so. Tips are expensive
so take care of them. I would start with a # 4 tip. Open and adjust
the Oxygen and Fuel gas as you normally would.

Use the smallest wrench which will fit. Crescent wrenches can be
used, but again use the shortest and adjust the jaws to fit
properly. Using a short wrench will reduce the likelihood of over
tightening things. A good 10" crescent wrench will work for
everything. DO NOT USE CHANNEL LOCKS OR PIPE WRENCHES. DO NOT
LUBRICATE. USE NO OIL.

If you are considering doing metal working involving steel, than You
will find a good combination torch system like the Victor Journeyman
to be a lifetime investment Other reputable American made torches
should give good service as well. They are not as popular for some
reasons

Not trying to be dogmatic, Just please be careful.

Thanksgiving is an attitude, not just a day. Robb.