I always ask for 50% non refundable. A few times i didn’t take a
down payment and it took months to get the piece paid for. It shows
a commitment on their part. Find a public place to meet them. That
insures a somewhat speedy process. I used to work at home a gallery
where i had work called to say a customer really liked my work and
could she come to my house. I was trying to get ready for a big show
she showed up had to look at every piece of jewelry then wanted to
look at stones. She picked out the best boulder opal i had and
wanted me to make her a piece so that the cost was the opal and as
little more as i could possibly make it for. She was there for 4
hours when i finally got rid of her i swore never again. I never did
make her the piece the opal was too nice to waste in that way. I
have never had anyone else i didn’t know come to my house to buy.
Sometimes it takes a little courage, but usually the bigquestion you ask yourself after you've made the change is, 'why didn't Ido that sooner?'
Home this Friday after battling the wickedest of colds all week.
Similar to David Phelps - this is my world, I don’t intendit to be
outright advice. This is a topic where one-size-fits-all just
doesn’t make it.
There was a time when I worked in the second bedroom of a 50 foot
house trailer, in the mountains outside of Albuquerque. I did that
for about a year, though I’ve also worked in garages since as a side
job sort of thing. Without belaboring it, after a time I used to
goto a shopping center and just walk around, just to be around
people. I had friends but after a time I came to the concious
realization that I am asocial being and the hermit life is just not
for me. I like people and generally speaking they like me back.
Things changed and I moved on. I’ll just throw in an event years
later, when we were at the SNAG dinner when it was here in SF. My
venerable, old-timer table mate said, “Thisis a room full of people
who only see the light of day once a year, at these conferences.”
And I took that and looked around and there sure were alot of “doe
in the headlight” expressions and social awkwardness. That either
applies to you or it doesn’t, it’s just to say that there has
somehow evolved a culture of lonely existence in our business, in
some places. Some people thrive on it, I don’t.
So, there came a time of opening up and getting a business license
all of that and the offer was made thatwe could use our basement,
which I utterly and immediately rejected. Years have gone by - more
than 30 now, and we moved lately as was discussed here last year.
We pay $2/sq foot for our shop. It’s listed at 547 sq. ft. as I
recall but as is the custom in commercial real estate we payfor half
the hallway and a percentage on the common areas. I measured and as
I recall the actual space is 375 or something. Depending on your
garage it’s about the size of a small-ish two car garage. We split
the rent and also have an arrangement with someone who just wants a
desk now and then, so my monthly rent is around $450. Insurance is
mandatory in the lease and that’s about $65/month total, as I
recall. Downstairs is a friend in a much smaller space who has an
apprentice - if you imagined they were two people sharing and
splitting, his space would be more like $250-$300/month, each.
For this we have our space and total, reasonable control over it,
janitorial except they don’t come in our place, 24 hour security,
CCTV throughout the building and all utilities. My/our name and
address are out there but we are wholesale and by referral so we are
not public. We get mail from suppliers, vendors, art shows and
openings. We get calls from colleagues all over the world, at times.
UPS and Fedex are inour building every day which doesn’t mean so
much except that we are familiar. If I want nitric acid or cyanide
or oxygen bottles I pick up the phone and order them - they
generally won’t sell to private parties (chemicals…) and they
won’t deliver to residences. All for $450/month, which I generally
make in a day or two. Clients come to our shop though we like some
notice to avoid traffic jams.
Then I step out of the building, people saying, “Hi, how are you
today?” all the way along. To the left is Westfield shopping center,
a major indoor mall with Nordstom’s and Bloomingdales. Across the
street is the cable car. Make a short jog and go by the Apple store
and you’ll hit Macy’s, then Union Square proper (thisis the Union
Square neighborhood), beyond is Saks and Tiffany - make a right and
it’s Cartier, Debeers and Neiman Marcus. On and on, the point being
that this is a robust, thriving, booming downtown, not someplace
that once was. In between is the flower vendors and hotdogs and
street artists and musicians and the noise and the people of the
world and I walk down thestreet and there’s somebody I know saying,
“Hi, how are you today?” and I say just fine… The holidays are
coming and the city will string lights and the stores will do their
windows - Macy’s donates theirs to the SPCA, who puts puppies and
kittens for on-the-spot adoptions. A real crowd pleaser even if you
just look. And the sidewalks will get full of shoppers and some of
them will have tired, hungry cranky whiney kids after a long day but
hey, it’s all good, you know?
All for a measly $450/month - can’t beat it. Then I get on the train
for $3.50 and I go home and relax and maybe make risotto. I WILLend
with some true advice - if you like working at home then fine. If
you have a great space for it then fine. I know some just live in
the country and such where it’s really the only option. If you are
working at home because you just flat can’t afford to rent shop
space then maybe you could re-evaluate your business model, though.
John D.
All for $450/month...
What really hit home for me in your story John was that is was a
great example of personal success and how beautifully individual
that is. Here you are, your work life is great, you can fully wrap
your arms around it and then sleep like a baby. Though different, I
have a very similar work life to yours and I’m not sure I could be
much happier with it. I can’t tell you how often well meaning people
suggest ways in whichI could grow my business or do it differently
to achieve greater “Success.” I usually tell them that I’m pretty
darn happy now, why should I complicate it and potentially screw up
a good thing? I mean, what is the objective here? Mark
So happy for you, John! Your situation seems perfect for you!
Wishing you very merry and successful holiday season!
Marianne Hunter
Really enjoyed John D.'s post. Brought back fond memories of a few
months at Revere, which must be only a block or two from his shop.
I was fortunate to get a 1500 sq. ft. space with a store front in
the desert for $825 a month. It’s not Union Square, but after several
shows people are coming by to pick up custom orders, or make
purchases.
I have worked at home for so long in various businesses that I
really am enjoying leaving the house to go to work, as well as
leaving the shop to come home.
And it does seem to matter to customers that we have a location
accessible to them. It is almost like instant credibility, which is
ridiculous, but seems to be the way people think.
James
And it does seem to matter to customers that we have a location accessible to them. It is almost like instant credibility, which is ridiculous, but seems to be the way people think.
It is absolutely the way most people think. Trust is a huge factor
when selling jewelry. Being secretive about where you are may make
sense for security, but it is an obstacle to establishing trust.
Stephen Walker
Andover, NY
Sounds idyllic, John. Don’t you just love it when a plan comes
together?
I loved working from my home. For a couple of years, it was probably
the most enjoyable time I’ve ever had as a goldsmith. But I found
that when I worked from home, I couldn’t go home from work. It was
always there, beckoning; even threatening at times. I also found that
I wasn’t a hermit. I really missed seeing the reaction of the people
for whom I did my work. Like John and maybe in a not-so-different
way, I just have to be around people.
One of the things I love the most about what I do is the stories.
Every piece of jewelry has a story. If you take the time to hear and
understand the story in its full context, you can be a part of it and
be a better help to the people that need your help. For me, that’s
the best part. Getting to be a little bit of a hero, saving the
jewelry-day, as it were. You don’t get to experience that part if you
only do things the way I did at home, in secrecy and second-hand.
It’s a real pain to be constantly interrupted as one usually is when
they do retail. For many it’s almost impossible to be productive when
not a single hour goes by without at least four interruptions of five
minutes or more. But that’s retail. I wouldn’t trade it for the
world. I love the people, I love the stories. I hate the hours. Two
out of three ain’t bad. OK, and the rent. Best three out of five?
Dave Phelps
So happy for you, John! Your situation seems perfect for you!
Thanks to Marianne and Mark but it’s really not about me. But
thanks…
Three doors down from us (Revere is just about one block, BTW) is
Jenna. Jenna was an apprentice to the friend I mentioned in the last
post - now it’s another. Everything changed and Jenna opened up a
castingshop. She’s 25-ish. I went over and gave her a pep talk in
the beginning and she said, “I just don’t have the skills, but I
know how to cast.” She knows she doesn’t have the skills from her
apprenticeship and she’s no fool. I wrote here on Orchid a year ago
that there was a casting void here in San Francisco and Jenna
finally filled that void. I predict that in ten years or certainly
twenty she will be a major force. Right now her rent is being paid
by jewelry students wanting casting, though I’ve given her a couple
of jobs. You know, the students make their student stuff, hoping
someone will like it, they pay Jenna to cast it. Whether it sells or
not, they make some other student stuff, they pay Jenna to cast it.
Funny how no matter what happens, they pay Jenna to cast it. She’ll
do just fine and within a year she’ll be big into gold and then
platinum is next. Jewelry is a career - some of us drive the
racecar, some of us are the pit crew, some are some of all the other
things, but what I told Jenna in that pep talk applies to all - You
have to perform, there is no place to hide. BS just doesn’t work in
this business.
It is absolutely the way most people think. Trust is a huge factor when selling jewelry.
I don’t consider it ridiculous to mistrust a vendor or service
provider with no apparent base of operations. How do I know that he
won’t disappear after getting my money? If I’m unhappy with the goods
or services later, I want to be able to confront the provider. A
known location is not an absolute guarantee, but it’s a big factor.
Al Balmer
Personally, I think you and those that you love are almost an equal risk whether you work at home or have a store/shop/studio at a second location. You need to take steps to secure your people and things as best you can, then stay on your toes.
One of the steps that you should all be aware of is to take your
home out of your name.
It is quite easy to discern a person’s home address simply by using
their counties property appraiser’s website.
It’s also easy to create a trust and have it “own” your home thereby
making impossible for the bad guys to find your address using your
name.
Paf Dvorak
Hi
I don't consider it ridiculous to mistrust a vendor or service provider with no apparent base of operations.
Yes I agree with this. In the country. At the markets I was all the
time being asked if I had a shop. When I said no you could sense the
customer thought I lacked business credibility. Even though I said I
had a workshop, not the same thing.
So when my son moved to the city, I moved my workshop into the house
I own. Look out over the river from my bench.
Put two showrooms into the front rooms. Made another an office.
So now when I am asked if I have a shop I say I have a showroom and
workshop. Open by appointment, just ring to see we are there and not
with a client already. Works a treat gives credibility and a nice
tax break as the rent we pay pays off the mortgage.
Having the workshop there means I can do simple repairs on the spot.
Really pissed off the local jewellery shop, just retail and most
stock on consignment. Very expensive sends repairs out of town and
charges $12 to solder a silver jump ring closed. I charge $5, squirt
of solder paste quick heat and dip in the pickle etc. If I did that
all day I would make about $1500 a week after expenses.
When I lived in Sydney did not need a shop as my workshop was in the
jewellery section of town. A client walking into a building full of
jewellers was all the credibility I needed.
Richard
It is quite easy to discern a person's home address simply by using their counties property appraiser's website. It's also easy to create atrust and have it "own" your home thereby making impossible for the badguys to find your address using your name.
I had this experience recently when trying to locate a friend’s
property two counties down. I knew it straddled the county lines,
and that some portion of it fronted on the river. The property had
been purchased by three siblings and their spouses, and placed in a
trust. I was curious about the location because my friend claimed
the property was the location of a Seminole War period fort.
However, a book I’d recently purchased on the Fort King Road, which
overlayed historical maps with land surveys and old and new aerial
photographs of the region, led me to believe otherwise. I finally
located the parcel by reviewing all the trust-owned properties in
the area.
Linda incentral FL
Following this thread has been interesting as one can see the
different ways of meeting clients.
Theres one thing that hasnt been mentioned so far, that is the price
band one works in.
Now if you work in the high end of the trade ie, platinum and
diamonds you dont have a stall on a trestle table in the local
weekend market. The tradition at that level is to have a very smart
permanent presence, in an expensive location in a major city.
for example, You dont buy a new Mercedes at the s/hand car lot on
the edge of town.
However theres nothing wrong with a market, you just need products
at a price level that suits the location.
That then depends on how you want to work and what you want to make.
Afterall you dont go to Ford and comission a car, nor to Hoover to
make you a custom cleaner, so why have all the hassle of custom work
for clients who rarely know what they want. Dont be afraid to
design, make and market your ideas retail!!, if there good, well made
and priced right, they will sell.
You also make a profit on each of these 3 operations.
My 1st 7 yrs in this trade was driving up to London, 120 miles each
way on a Sunday, arriving at approx 7.30 am. Setting up my display
and stock thereon on the 4ft of railings I had on the Bayswater road
along with all the painters leather workers and other crafts persons,
then getting out the small cooker and frying up a traditional english
breakfast. Surprisingly I was the only one to do this!.
Then open for business till say, 5 pm, pack up and drive home.
Now those 4 ft of Hyde park railings had some 5000 people pass
during the day. It was all cash sales, and it paid off my house
building costs, and earned enough to start and raise a family.
Bottom price was at the rate of exchange in 1969 $10 up to $100 top
price.
One only needed to sell 10 bracelets at $75.00 each to make it all
worth while.
So what sold that day was remade during the week for the following
Sunday.
Nice and simple.
Eventually, the driving got me down, so i looked for a similar place
to sell a lot nearer.
This turned out to be a small retirement town some 40 miles away,
and I was able to get a pitch on a Saturday of 10 ft.
I built a nice little stall and this worked as well for a further 7
yrs, tho it lacked the international clients one had in london.
A friend said he was doing a pop festival and could get me in along
side himself.
So i tried it. Same stall over 3 days. Well I, sold out, so decided
Id try a few more bigger events.
that needed a proper exhibition unit with supporting commercial
vehicle, you call them trucks, plus a mobile home, we call them
caravans, to do it all properly.
Built all this up in 1983/4, and did the big national craft events
here in the Uk.
With this step up to the big time? product prices were now up in the
$5000. range for the large titanium bronze ans silver bowls etc.
In 1986, at Art in Action Oxford I helped a fellow s/smith with some
titanium wire he left behind. In 1987 he called me to say that a
s/smith was selling up in a town north of here and thought i was the
sort of idiot who aught to have the old iron.
well thats history, as Ive written on previous occasions.
The complete minters. drop stampers w/shop from 1851 opened the door
to so much work over the next 10 yrs here in the Uk and throughout
Europe, because I made the equipment transportable.
Ive always designed, made and sold my work retail, ie ive a product
range which, if folk like it enough they will buy it.
Comissions for the large silver pieces are another story.
Mint production runs are also by contract and each one is a separate
negotiation. The biggest was 5000 pewter medieval coins for a castle
on the Rhien in Germany.
So to summarise, whatever it is, if it works for you then its fine.
I was the first one to use the term “ridiculous” in this thread, and
what I was trying to say was that it was surprising to find that if
you have an accessible location people assume you are successful,
produce quality work, will be there next month, etc.
These things may or may not be true, but like Stephen Walker said,
it’s the way most people think, which is not a bad thing.
The comments on the importance of trust in this business were very
informative.
James in CA.
You can aquire someone’s address easily on the internet for a few
bucks from companies searching through your utility billing.
Hi
However theres nothing wrong with a market, you just need products at
a price level that suits the location.
This is so true. I like doing markets, good ones, I used to do
Paddington Markets in Sydney in the 1980’s.
Nothing like leaving a night club, picking up the goods and then off
to the market. Oh to be young again.
I used to make solid colour resin earrings tried to sell them for $2
did not go well. Left a friend to mind my stall, forgot to tell them
the price. Came back with lunch.
They said sorry if they got the price wrong, but they had sold 10
pairs at $5 in 15 minutes.
Kept the price up and made a heap. Then went to the School for
Silversmiths and learnt to work in silver and gold and to set gems.
Pricing jewellery in markets is a difficult skill to get right.
About 20 years ago I moved to the mid north coast of NSW. Tried the
markets not the same as Sydney. Changed careers after a 3 uni
degrees. To teaching full time, they pay teachers a lot of money in
Australia, today $90,000 a year for a top rank full time teacher.
But still made jewellery as a hobby.
After 9 years needed a break from teaching and went back to selling
jewellery, I do Bellingen markets now and have worked out my price
points, it was not easy. Many markets were a complete disaster. But
now sell well. I also work part time teaching, jewellery making is
one subject.
It suits me well to work 2 days as a teacher and the rest making and
selling jewellery.
I get regular commissions from my stalls. For gold and gems. I stick
to the designs I make and so keep within my skill level.
By doing this I make quality equal to anyone. If I was to try and
make the designs some on Orchid do think Jo and Tim for example I
would be a complete failure. I do not have such a complete skill set.
And how I would like to set like Gerry.
But also many people like very simple designs. In Australia so much
jewellery is very “busy” seems like a game of how many $10 diamonds
can one fit in a piece. I would rather bezel set a good sapphire into
an 18 kt solitaire ring. I get orders for these when people see my
sterling solitaire rings at the markets.
FOR GOLD THEY DO COME TO MY SHOWROOM TO DISCUSS THE DESIGN AND
STONE. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD ORDER THIS FROM A STALL.
Also to prevent the ‘that is not my stone scenario’, I make the
bezel in front of the customer and they take their stone away and
come back when the ring is ready and I set it in front of them. They
really like to see the mystery unfold. I also check the size before
setting, like getting a suit made.
The point of this is for newbies, you do not have to be able to do
everything in the trade. Make well what you can and find your niche.
It can pay well.
Richard
I was the first one to use the term "ridiculous" in this thread, and what I was trying to say was that it was surprising to find that if you have an accessible location people assume you are successful, produce quality work, will be there next month, etc.
Most people do most of their business with companies or suppliers
that have known physical addresses or are well enough established
that that their reliability and accountability are common knowledge.
This is changing with internet commerce and that is another story.
If you are secretive about your base of operation, most people will
be suspicious. That is a negative perception that you need to
overcome. The best way is if they know and respect the opinion of
someone else who has been satisfied and happy to do business with
you. There are other ways; web sites, community involvement,
association with established institutions, exhibits, etc. Its not so
much that having a commercial location gives you credibility as it is
that not having one makes you questionable. Anyone who is trying to
make it working from some secret location needs to know this and
figure out how to present themselves as honest, reliable and
accountable.
Stephen Walker
Andover, NY
I charge $5, squirt of solder paste quick heat and dip in the pickle etc.
Richard, That seems pretty darn cheap, maybe think about it this
way? It’s easy for you because that’s what you do all day. It’s just
a quick heat up because you know how to do it. You know how to do it
because you spent years developing your expertise. It is my belief
that there is nothing wrong with charging for the years of training
and that knowledge and skill. A business mentor of mine would always
say, “Profit is not a dirty word.”
Plus you have to spend the time to take in the job, do it, polish
it, clean it, bill it, deliver it. The $5 is looking pretty cheap
when you think about time being your most valuable resource.
Please don’t take this as a a criticism, we all can tend to
undervalue what is easy for us to do. This is as much a reminder to
myself as to you.
Mark
Hi Mark
Please don’t take this as a a criticism, we all can tend to
undervalue what is easy for us to do.
been thinking about pricing a lot. You make a good point. I have
trouble reconciling my teaching wage $80 an hour at a school and what
I charge for jewellery $25 an hour award rate is $19.60. I always
feel people will not pay higher prices.
My main problem is I can never keep up with my stock and I only
trade 5 days a month and make 10-12 days a month.
I would like to raise my prices, but think that the jewellery would
not sell as fast, but if the profit margin was better I would sell
less and make more money. This is my problem with making silver.
When I make in gold I charge $100 an hour, people have no problem
with that. But with silver no way, David Geller and others say the
labour rate should be the same regardless of materials.
This is a conundrum for me. But I am getting to the point where I
don’t want to work as hard as I did 25 years ago.
I want to work smarter.
Richard
You can aquire someone's address easily on the internet for a few bucks from companies searching through your utility billing.
I thought I would elaborate on this. Search “find people” then you
will findmany companies which collect your data. I have used
Intellius to find 3 different relatives in the United States. I
suppose you would search “find people Austrailia” or whatever for
people in another country, I don’t know. I only needed a name to
find my birth grandmother since her name was a little uncommon, but
for my birth father who had a common name, I had to guess the state.
The info you get is not always correct. For instance it has me
working at a place I didn’t etc. It lists my last four previous
addresses going back over 20 years. So finding your “secret” address
is probably not that hard. No.
For $39.95 you get all the info they have including background
checks, some employers use this to check out their prospective
employees For $.95 you get Report includes when available: Full Name,
Address, Age & DOB, Aliases, Phone Number, Relatives, Address History
Intelius reports include some or all of the following: Full Name, Age
& Date of Birth, Address, Address History, Phone Numbers, Aliases,
Relatives, Neighbors, Email Address(es), Social Networks, Property
Records, Marriage & Divorce, Death Records, Criminal Records,
Bankruptcies, Liens, Judgments, Lawsuits