Marketing treated gems as legitimate product

What makes it especially wrong is that there are some people who
sell stones, like me and several others I know, who concentrate on
selling the natural and even the rare.

I am right there with you. I think it is terribly misleading to use
the term “natural” as merely the opposite of “lab-created,” as is so
often done. Natural should mean “nature made it this way.” Yes, I
know nature didn’t facet or cab the stone, and everyone else
understands that too. Nature didn’t bezel set the stone, either. But
give me a break-

“yes, this topaz was heated to 600 degrees, and then bombarded with
gamma radiation. We had to store it in a lead-lined vault until the
rads dropped to legal levels. The sapphire was diffused with
beryllium. They are natural stones.” On what planet?

Why value a gemstone above a piece of glass or plastic? Does it have
to do with the fact that the beauty of the stone is produced by
nature rather than artifice? Is it an old and deep-seated vestige of
our reverence for the earth? Is the wearing of stones perhaps a way
of connecting with the earth?

Lee

to all - thanks for the responces and even though i like synthetic
gems for many reasons i have decided as one responder posted his
reply not to beat my head against the wall trying to sell somthing
that people dont want i am not going to pursue this for retail.

Anyhow with all the synthetic material out there and all that is
being produced somone has to be both buying and selling it, so where
is it all going? i am convinced there arent enough retiree’s with
faceting machines to use it all up. please, no offense to the purist
and honest gem cutters out there but… this stuff is getting into
the market somehow, how are the fracture fill companies staying in
business?

best regards
goo

Home shopping network - sidewalk vendors all over the world -
costume jewelry - “simulated” jewelry of various kinds - I’ve bought
gold plated sterling/cz tennis bracelets for $25 - can’t beat it.
It’s not “real”, but nobody’s pretending it is. If someone wants to
buy a ruby ring for his wife’s 40th anniversary, you are never going
to convince him that a $10 vernuil crystal that’s common as clay is
"Just as Good".

Playing uninformed consumers’ advocate here…I think the main
concern in not knowing what type of treatment and WHY a stone has
had it makes a big difference. Improvement? Stability? Temporary mask
to get out of the store? One might figure that if a stone has been
stable in the ground for a kazillion years in a natural state, then
it should be a lasting investment. If a stone, say pink topaz, has a
coating on it that cannot be cleaned by certain methods then it’s
not such a delicious deal; buying something to worry about.
Especially if it’s being given as a gift and the details of it’s
specific care needs won’t tag along with it for as long as your name
will. That’s not to say that most “out of the ground” Kunzites are
color stable, they’re not. Be fully educated on what your selling.
Daniel strikes again…Full Honest Disclosure

Jaye

Consequently, when we talk about gemstone treatment I will
routinely tell customers that they should assume that almost all
colored stones are treated in some form today. It is simply a fact
of life in the business. This doesn't negate what you, or any
other person dealing with natural stones does. It also doesn't
diminish the value of what you are doing. It actually enhances it
so I'm unclear on why you're so upset by this. 

You ask why I’m upset by your statement. It’s because it is
extremely hard to prove a negative and it places the burden of proof
on the stone cutters.

In your original post on the idea of treatments you said that
“almost all” color stones on the market are treated. It’s the use of
“all” that’s troublesome. People are awfully willing these days to
paint others with too broad a brush. The reason I think using the
concept of all is a problem is very simple.

As a stone cutter, I don’t generally get to interact with the
public. Retail jewelers do. So I have no way of setting the record
straight. If retail jewelers in general are spreading the word that
“all” stones are treated and I can’t reach the retail customer, then
the only contact they get on this is from you. If this concept of
“all” spreads, then we, who deal with untreated stones whether they
be stone cutters or jewelry makers and sellers, have to somehow
prove that ours are untreated, I ask one question. How?

The other part of that is that if consumers get the idea that
treated is the standard to expect, they’ll settle into that and
won’t think it’s worth buying stones that are untreated.

Without belaboring the point. If food producers were to get it into
the heads of consumers that no food was organic and all foods are
treated with chemicals or pestacides, then eventually it would
destroy the organic food growers and sellers because there would not
be enough consumers to buy those products. As it is now, that
organic market continues to grow rapidly because more and more
people believe that it’s valuable to have organic food and they are
willing to pay a premium to get it.

I guess, perhaps out of self interest, I believe that is a better
approach to the natural stone market and can benefit the independent
jewelers and the consumers who care about this as well.

Derek Levin
www.gemmaker.com

In your original post on the idea of treatments you said that
"almost all" color stones on the market are treated. 

Ok, what would you like me to say? If I say “some” colored stones are
treated it is sort of a factual statement but frankly it’s not an
accurate description, because far more then “some” colored stones
are treated. Additionally the treaters are coming up with new
treatments so quickly that if I make a statement that today could be
considered factual (say that garnets are almost all natural and
untreated) by tomorrow I could be wrong. And I’m the one who can be
sued for making a false statement. If you sell me a colored stone and
misrepresent it’s origin then I can go back to you and insist that
you take it back or replace it with what you claimed it was. If my
customer buys a stone and I misrepresent I can be sued for TRIPLE
damages. And if it gets into the press then I could end up paying for
the mistake for the next twenty years. YOU don’t have to deal with
that.

And again, what is your beef here? When I say to a customer “almost
all colored stones on the market today are treated” (a completely
factual statement mind you), “but I am happy to show you my
completely natural colored stones” it only goes to enhance the value
of the naturally colored stones, which is what you’re selling. It
actually enhances a customer’s desire to own the natural product. If
you can come up with a way for me to make a COMPLETELY FACTUAL
presentation that helps me to sell all of my stones I’m happy to
hear it. But if you want me to fudge what I’m saying, lie to
customers about the reality of the situation, or simply tell the half
truths that so many people use today to pass for honesty, then I
might as well hang up my apron because I won’t do that to the people
who depend on ME (not the gem wholesaler) to tell them the truth.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

I agree with Derek. Making broad, sweeping statements to CYA isn’t
beneficial to those who are actually cutting the stones you people
set. I don’t know how many of you have cut a stone, or even watched
one be cut but there is a lot of time spent in the evaluation of a
piece of rough to determine characteristics before it is even dopped
up. We certainly know what is real, treated, and fake.

Craig
www.creativecutgems.com

As a stone cutter, I don't generally get to interact with the
public. Retail jewelers do. So I have no way of setting the record
straight. If retail jewelers in general are spreading the word that
"all" stones are treated and I can't reach the retail customer,
then the only contact they get on this is from you. 

As a gemologist, goldsmith, lapidary and retail jeweler (among other
things), I have to weigh in on this. Customers these days often walk
into the store already looking for untreated stones, so they’re not
necessarily getting it from me. I believe that most of them arm
themselves with just enough Internet to be dangerous,
then go out into the real world expecting said world to be everything
the Internet says it is. That’s about the time that I have to explain
common “industry standard” enhancements vs. natural It is
a matter of educating the consumer to put them at ease, not to harm
the reputation of independent lapidaries who produce fine, untreated
polished goods.

If this concept of "all" spreads, then we, who deal with untreated
stones whether they be stone cutters or jewelry makers and
sellers, have to somehow prove that ours are untreated, I ask one
question. How? 

Perhaps offering a certificate, signed by the cutter that speaks to
the gemstone’s natural origin might go a long way for you. Since any
gemologist worth their salt can detect most enhancements, you might
consider striking up a professional relationship with a good one. At
my retail store, we offer gem ID to the trade for $20 (generally
speaking - difficult or significant stones can be more). Would it be
worth a few bucks to you to have another professional sign off on
your certificate of origin? Once you’ve established a reputation as a
cutter of fine, untreated your customers (whether dealers,
manufacturers, etc.) will accept your goods as untreated on your
word. Until then, you might consider offering them a guarantee that
your goods will withstand gemological scrutiny from any gem
laboratory. If you’re already established, you’ve already made it
there.

The other part of that is that if consumers get the idea that
treated is the standard to expect, they'll settle into that and
won't think it's worth buying stones that are untreated. 

So far, the people who visit our store have been willing to pay a
premium for extra fine, untreated especially ruby and
sapphire. But that doesn’t go for all species of gems. For example,
we never keep a natural Moguk Old Mine estate ruby for long at
whatever price the market will bear, but there’s a stunning
chrysoberyl in a contemporary setting that almost never gets a second
look even though it’s totally natural.

The truth is that with the multitude of jewelry stores all over the
world, there just isn’t enough unearthed material that will stand
becoming jewelry without being enhanced in some way. People want
Tanzanite (for some strange reason), not brown zoisite. They want
red ruby, not dark bluish-Purple-centered Thai sapphire. They want
London blue topaz, not colorless material. People already know that a
great deal of gem materials have to be enhanced in some way, or there
wouldn’t be much of it to go around. They enter my place of business
asking about it. They will pay a premium to get (certain) untreated
gems if educated about them properly. No retail jeweler in their
right mind would approach the discussion of gem treatments with
customers for any other reason than to help them make informed,
educated choices. It also gives us the chance to put premium prices
on natural materials such as yours, and we all prefer making a better
living, don’t we?

Best of luck, and please let me know your solution for setting your
customers’ minds at ease about your natural

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

Hi Amery,

  1. Why Swarovski, besides the reasons I already gave? I have never
    seen crystal as beautiful as theirs. I know they have a Chinese
    competitor now, and they may have others I haven’t encountered, but
    the quality difference seems obvious to me.

Remember, though, this is true (leaded) crystal. I have used e.g.
Czech glass that I though was beautiful, but it didn’t look
“precious.” I like the idea of glass being considered a precious
material, as it was by the Ancient Egyptians. And Swarovski sparkles
plenty for me!

  1. Other Orchidians have posted good wholesale suppliers for
    Swarovski–you might want to search the archives. Aside from buying
    from Rio, which had a limited selection, I have always bought from
    local stores, since I rarely want a lot of one color in one size. I
    found the best selection of shapes, colors, and special finishes at
    General Bead. Directions to their stores are on this page:

http://www.genbead.com/intro3.htm

I also had a colleague who bought directly from Swarovski–their rep
approached her at the California Gift Show–but I suspect it’s
harder than getting a components account at Stuller…

Good luck!
Lisa

PS: More for those interested in supporting socially responsible
companies: http://tinyurl.com/pblq9

stones whether they be stone cutters or jewelry makers and
sellers, have to somehow prove that ours are untreated, I ask one
question. How? 

I sold a natural, unheated, untreated blue sapphire a while back
that came with a GIA cert testifying to the fact. The Doctor wrote a
long post about this, which said a lot, and little all rolled into
one. Meaning that it is hard to know what customers are going to
want. I had a call years ago from someone who wanted a “Pigeon’s
blood” - very specific - ruby of 3-5 carats and they were willing to
pay up to about $1,000 for it. Despite my gratitute at being
permitted to sell a $50,000 stone for that, I had to decline… People
are only going to buy what they want, and the retailer, no matter how
they try, cannot have what everybody who walks in will want,
especially the dreamers. The people I know who stock beautiful
sapphires do not have blue topaz in any form, and vice-versa. I would
say, in the end, if you are resonably honest, and carry inventory
that targets the customer base you want to attract, then you can do
no more in the matter. It doesn’t take long to know that you’re not
going to make every sale, and getting all nervous because someone
wants something you don’t even stock is how people get insomnia. You
going to stock shirts? Milk? Guns? Honesty is important, but, as I
like to say, “If they were jewelry designers they wouldn’t be
here…” Disclosure is one thing - giving a lesson in gemology every
afternoon is a bit much. And, as I also like to say, I can sell them
this off-the-rack ring for $150 that measures 3.2mm, or I can custom
make a ring for $500 that measures 3.4mm. Is it so important to them
that it’s 3.4mm that they will pay 300% more? Some will, most won’t.
If your average buyer understands that they can get a natural
sapphire for $6,500, or a heat treated (enhanced, not man-made) for
$3,000 that is of equal beauty to the eye ---- well, you get my
point. Take the $3,500 more if it’s offered and say thank you very
much. But there’s not much more you can do but put it out there and
be ethical.

I would like to add one more thought to my previous post to this
thread. Suppose an independent lapidary goes to a rock and gem show
with all of their natural, untreated stones in hand. I’m talking
about a medium-size show, not Tucson (although Tucson would be more
like reality). Say G&LW, or a similar sized show. How many finished
gems could a person bring? 100? 1,000? Maybe 10,000? Not likely that
many, but the point is that an independent lapidary could bring
every natural, untreated stone they have to such a relatively small
venue and a person can still reliably say that almost all of the
stones in the building have been treated in some way. One booth alone
will have hundreds of thousands of bleached and dyed pearls. Many
booths will have thousands of rubies that were packed in clay
crucibles with borax and heated before any cutter ever laid eyes on
them. Blue topaz, mystic topaz, greened “amethyst.” The list goes on
and on.

Nobody of my acquaintance in the industry would ever disparage an
independent lapidary’s untreated product. In fact, all would rather
promote the product and present it as something relatively unique in
this world of commonly treated gems. If I made my primary living as a
lapidary, I would set about promoting the difference between my
natural product and that of the industry’s instead of downplaying
the obvious fact that nearly all commercial gems are treated. Seems
like that would increase desire for my product, thereby incresing
profit margins. Thoughts?

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

as the original poster of this question my intentions were not to
cause a falling out between those selling synthetic and only natural
materials. there have been many valid points made and i do feel more
enlightened on this subject at this time. there are some points that
should be considered.

1- there will always be a market for natural gems

#2- in order to sell synthetic gemstones the buying public must be
exposed, educated and introduced. which at this point i am not sure
will happen without the monetary participation of those who are
manufacturing the synthetic products (documentaries advertising &
infomercials).

#3 overcoming fear, the customer needs to know they can have both
nat’s & syn’s ! tell people its ok to "come out of the syntetic
closet "

later - goo

If I made my primary living as a lapidary, I would set about
promoting the difference between my natural product and that of the
industry’s instead of downplaying the obvious fact that nearly all
commercial gems are treated.

Well said James!!!

I agree with the final post. When you say virutally “all commercial
stones are treated,” that’s quite different than saying “almost all
colored stones” are treated. I think most customers understand what
is meant by commercial and it allows those many who deal with
natural and specialty stones room to maneuver. Thanks.

Derek Levin
www.gemmaker.com

Derek,

The online Merriam Webster dictionary defines “virtually” as: "1 :
almost entirely : NEARLY 2 : for all practical purposes ". So how is
that different from saying “almost” all? Virtually or almost, the
reality is that MOST stones in the marketplace today are treated
(again, simply by sheer percentages). It still doesn’t denigrate
what you do.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

I don’t want to belabor this, and I hope this is valuable thoughts
for people. I used to be a journalist, I was also an English
professor, and I was also a politician. These are all jobs that deal
in words. For the vast majority of people in this country,
perception is reality. The vast majority of people in my experience
don’t want to split hairs unless they are caught at something. When
we use the word all, they will not hear virtually or almost. They
will hear all. They tend to be unsophisticated in their language use
and are always trying to simplify. If you look at our current
position in the world, you need look no further than the fact that
the American people don’t want to think about complexity. They want
to go with their gut. It’s what got us into this mess. So much of
what we are dealing with is because people prefer to avoid having to
think. So when we give them a message, it had better be the message
that we want them to have. They won’t, for the most part, look for
the nuance. There are still many people who believe that Iraq was
somehow involved with 9/11. Even after all the evidence and denials
to the contrary. And that’s a life and death issue. People who make
and sell the jewelry are the teachers. We are in all likelihood going
to be the only educators they have in jewelry. If we convince them
that “all colored stones” are treated. That is the message they will
take away with them. That’s what the vast majority of them will hear.
They don’t hear modifiers and they won’t go to the dictionary to look
them up. They will accept it on faith from their reputable dealer.
I’m simply saying that the reputable dealer, for his or her own
benefit, if they want to let people know that they sell untreated
stones and that those are worth some premium value because of that
would be wise to leave what I used to tell my students was wiggle
room. That’s all I’m suggesting Daniel.

Actually, I see you’re a GG. Here’s another example of how the kind
of thing we’re talking about in colored stones has been affecting
many people. Gemology has this grading system of colored stones that
is absolutely deadly. It calls a specific color of stone, the best.
When you use the word best, it implies unequivocally that all other
colors are poorer quality. In my opinion that is just silly. You can
have a perfectly beautiful stone and it can be graded as lesser
quality. I don’t have a problem with the idea that the industry
prefers some colors. So if I see an emerald I can say, that that is
the most preferred color. That doesn’t mean that all others are
lesser or crap. But with the current way of doing things that’s the
impression.

I have to tell you that this system can keep people from using some
exceptional materials in jewelry and the customers are shortchanged
because of it. An excellent example is with some ametrine rough I
have. It’s a beautiful, and I mean startling, salmon color. But for
ametrine that’s considered garbage because it doesn’t have the
separation of colors to amethyst and citrine. Now I believe that
salmon, over the years has been a very popular color, but because of
the grading system that says this is poor quality, it will never get
to the market. I have numerous other examples of that too. Just
another way of seeing that perception becomes reality.

Derek Levin
www.gemmaker.com

Gemology has this grading system of colored stones that is
absolutely deadly. 

How interesting, things may have changed since 1977 when I went to
G.I.A., but there was no grading scale for colored stones for
quality. The object of gemology is to determine if a gem is natural,
man made ,simulants or synthetic and whether something has been
treated or not. I believe that the grading scale for colored
gemstones is market driven, the deepest and most vivid colors’ are
the ones that the public seems to desire and covet the most, however
not the ones they can afford or buy.

But I have only been retailing colored for 20 years, so perhaps
others can educate and enlighten me from their experience. The
relationship of quality to price tends to give people an impression
of what is best. Just as in all other products. The best test of the
value of a gemstone, is to buy it, and then try to sell it, that
will be the reality test.

Really high quality or really low qualitity are hard to sell. And any
wise person who sells gemstones relates price to quality and
educates the customer that the color and quality they like, or can
afford, is the best choice for them.

Richard Hart

Is there some way you can spin the marketing of the lab created,
and treated, stones to make them sound better? I'm not saying
anything about fibbing, but there are people who can sell anything.
It's all in the spin. 

How about:

“Designed by Nature, Perfected by People”

or some such thing?

Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers

Because I've shown the "ruby jade" at shows, I always disclosed
that it is jade, but the color is "enhanced". It sounds better than
dyed. However, since I had one returned from a store I am pulling
it from my line. It's just not worth the risk of losing an account. 

I would think that would be the same as calling a metal “platinum
sterling” and, when asked, calling it enhanced sterling, when it is
really sterling with a bright chrome plating. In your context, “Ruby”
would always be seen as a mineral type, not a generic description of
the color red, and should never be used to describe a stone that is
not, in fact, ruby.

Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers

I have to tell you that this system can keep people from using
some exceptional materials in jewelry and the customers are
shortchanged because of it. An excellent example is with some
ametrine rough I have. It's a beautiful, and I mean startling,
salmon color. But for ametrine that's considered garbage because it
doesn't have the separation of colors to amethyst and citrine. 

Derek, I’m not sure that I should be the one to tell you this, but
if it is salmon color, beautiful or not, it CAN’T be ametrine. By
definition, ametrine is a junture of AMEthyst and ciTRINE, neither
one of which is salmon colored. I’m sure your beautiful stones would
be much more acceptible if you were able to give a proper name for
them. I’m afraid calling them ametrine would be like calling
sapphires ‘blue ruby’. I am reminded of the Spanish explorers who,
upon finding native platinum nuggets in the new world, threw them in
the creeks to ‘ripen’ into silver. Ametrine is a relatively cheap
material - perhaps your salmon stones are ready to rise above it.

Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers