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Lindsay Issue


#1

Seth or Leah
What is happening on the Lindsay issue. I’m not getting any response on messages, emails, or phone.

Regards Ronald L. Wade
C 214-448-5985

SKYPE - r_wade

Regards Ronald L. Wade
C 214-448-5985

SKYPE - r_wade


#2

What is “Lindsay issue”?


#3

Hi Ron - I’ve received and appreciate your feedback on my decision to remove the post advertising an allegedly infringing knock-off product to Mr. Lindsay’s product. There is a court-ordered injunction preventing the domestic sale of such goods, and I’ve been furnished a copy of same.

I understand your desire to discuss the veracity of this knock-off product vis-a-vis the real product, and you are correct - generally this is the place for that type of discussion. However, I also understand Lindsay’s frustration.

Ultimately I made a decision that I didn’t want to host this discussion, at Steve’s request. I’ve asked @Steve_Lindsay to respond publicly to this thread.


#4

Simply stated this was my unanswered message to Mr. Lindsay.

https://orchid.ganoksin.com/t/removed-post/56408?u=rwade1


#5

Hi Ron,

Sorry I didn’t get back to you fast. I’m quicker with engraving questions than legal ones. lol! I have been on a new reversal ring holder through the weekend, and plan to release it yet this week.

As Seth mentioned, there is a Federal Court Ordered Permanent Injunction in place against a foreign entity that went by multiple alias names. Intellectual property info and patent code can be found here: AirGraver.com/Patent-Infringement.htm There are FYI notes there concerning importing, using, offering, selling, and inducing. If you discover an infringing knockoff be sure not to link or discuss it on-line. As Seth is helping with. Doing so will just provide free advertising to the infringement. Anyone even using the infringing product in the US ends up being liable. (see (a) patent code). In other words, it is best to report it and let the attorneys handle it. The email address specifically for reporting is provided on the page in the above link.

For specific questions of intellectual property it is always best to contact an attorney.

There is a good article about the patent system and how the framers included it in our constitution here: EngravingSchool.com/private/Patent-system.htm

Back to the reversal ring holders.


Steve Lindsay Engraving and Tools
www.PalmControl.com
www.EngravingClasses.com
www.EngravingLessons.com
www.EngravingSchool.com
www.EngravingForum.com
www.EngravingGlossary.com
www.SteveLindsay.com


#6

Steve,
Thanks for your insight and that of the opinions on your linked website.

As stated in the linked message to you prior to your response, I’m apologetic that my original post contained a link. I should have been more sensitive and have expressed my regret. However as also stated I was simply trying to get quality-experienced based information related to a product that may or may not be infringing on your IP rights. I continue to believe that I have the right to ask for opinions on products regardless of where manufactured in fact if I understand correctly your US patents are not protecting it being competitively mfg and marketed in other countries. Since Orchid is huge in the international marketplace, perhaps non US owners may have some insight that would be useful.

Orchid CANNOT be commanded to restrict discussions on product. Nor can they be commanded to include discussions. However, Seth has removed my original post at the request of Lindsay Engraving and having agreed to do it is now reluctant to allow it to be reposted even without the offending advertising link. I contend that you are exerting undue influence which prevents the open and free flow of information related to the quality of competitive products in a worldview.

I think it would be prudent for you to post a link to the text of the injunction that is the basis for the post being removed. I did find what I think is the correct memo 5 April 2016 and I read it differently than described. Perhaps I don’t have the correct document

As previously stated in my link not allowing open discussion related to products in the legitimate world market will cause disruption in any product that is protected in the Us Market but allowed in the international market.

Regards RLW (rwade1) Ronald L. Wade


#7

I have no axe to grind either way in this dialog, but I will observe that this is not a public square, but a privately owned forum.

As I think that I understand it, the owners and moderators of an internet forum are not bound by any “First Amendment Rights”, to tolerate any and all “free speech”. If the forum managment chooses to shut off a particular thread, or delete a post they have the right to do so, even if they do not choose to discuss the reasons other than state that there was a violation of TOS.

Anyone who disagrees with the policies set up by a forum is equally entitled to start and manage their own internet forum, where they can decide the rules themselves.


#8

Steve Lindsay has created an excellent tool, several in fact. Not just thought of them but made them . And not just make them but figure out how to market them successfully. He has achieved everyone’s dream, against the odds. Then after finding success he has maintained that quality product and sustained a business with all of the daily difficulties and ups and downs that entails. It’s a hard thing to do.

Now to have to defend his business from overseas counterfeiters, who do not have to follow US law in their own country is almost too much to ask. You don’t design your business to retaliate from foreign attack. That’s not part of the dream.

I wish Mr. Lindsay all the luck in the world.
Mark


#9

I agree TOTALLY but it doesn’t alter the fact that the competitive product is available for purchase in other countries, legally! The question of competitive quality remains relevant. AND, that was the only question I was seeking an answer to in the removed post.

I would love to own a classic engraver but cannot afford the extra $1000. Quality and economics are my only issue. So I’ll have to save my pennies until I can order the classic.
Regards RLW


#10

I have owned and used the Lindsay Classic for several years with great pleasure. The quality of the piece is unquestionably high. I haven’t had experience with the foreign knockoff, but would venture that their quality control would be equivalent to other equipment from that part of the world. Their micrpscopes are useless, the graver balls are only good for paper weights and the GRS knockoffs have been great disappointments to all who have thrown their money away on them. Let’s fa e it, you get what you pay for. If you really don’t want to pony up for a Lindsay handpiece, you could explore working with hammer and chisel, it worked for all the old masters.


#11

@jahnbaker Thanks for your experienced observations.
Regards RLW


#12

If you don’t need all variable adjustment feature of the classic, I’ve found my artisan to be good for the tasks I need it for: cleaning up bezels, bright cutting, pave, etc.

Just order some extra collets for different gravers and you are good to go.


#13

@arkaysilversmiths great insight. Thanks, but I will need flexibility since my primary goals are engraving on various metal and hardness. I guess I’ll keep putting coins in the jar for now.
Regards RLW