Ther are a good number of jewelers making a living doing what they
love. They raise a family, own a home, put the kids thru college and
pursue other hobbies. How many painters do what they love as a day
job? 4? 10? Not many. I think we jewelers are pretty lucky.
Tom Arnold
You can choose where to position yourself in the market based on
talent, design, and craftsmanship. Do you create art or craft? I do
both. The market will dictate if you are going to succeed or not.
Never forget that.
Everyone in this discussion, or at least following along. MUST
listen to this radio discussion featuring Garth Clark, ceramics
expert, as it pertains to any medium.
How Envy Killed the Crafts Movement.
My reasoning behind that is that my wife's boss has two paintings hanging on his wall painted by dolphins! Is it craft or is it art?
Personally I don’t think it’s necessary at all to get into a art vs
craft debate when you’re talking about the business of art. This
thread is originally about money, not philosophy.
So here we have monkeys and dophins. There was a spot a couple of
years ago about a guy who threw buckets of paint into the draft of a
jet airplaneengine with a canvas mounted in just the right spot.
See the Orchid thread about ice casting, which is related to broom
casting, I gather. No different, really… I find all of these
pretty foolish on a personal level - on a business level I don’t
think there’s much else to say but, “Nice work if you can get
it…”
James Miller gives sage advise on this thread today, as usual - you
have to BE better, you have to do better work, you need to be the
one. And you also need to buy low and sell high. There are people
struggling to move $50 pieces on Etsy, while I (and many others)
make $50 in a few minutes quite often. Faberge’s shops never made
the same piece twice, as a matter of policy… Craftsmanship,
ability, training.
As a result of the “1000 markets/Etsy” thread, I went looking into
1000 Markets. When you filter out the plastic and get to the silver
and gold, you can see. About 80% of it is made by (apparent)
students, and it’s the standards of the art jewelry business, though
I don’t think the makers realize that. It also all looks pretty much
the same. You need to be the one who stands out, who does the best -
the only way to do that is to BE better. Be the one who makes people
say, “WOW, I want THAT!!!”
OK, my two cents.
I have a “friend” who is a pen pointe artist. She doesn’t do “arts &
crafts” and acts as if it’s beneath her. She considers my making
jewelry, crafting. At this point in my career, I’d say she was
right. I’m still new and basically learning my craft. But I have seen
some “crafted” pieces of jewelry that are truly works of art! I’ve
learned over the years, as an artist and consumer, that value is
where you place it. Art is, in and of itself, very subjective. Yes,
some paintings go for a lot more than I’d pay, but that doesn’t mean
it’s necessarily “better” than an equally expensive piece of jewelry.
Jewelry is very sculptural, and sculptures are art. We just work in
miniature and make it wearable. 
Michele
MikiCat Designs
Web: www.mikicatdesigns.com
It is the raw utility of jewelry that makes it craft as opposed to painting and sculpture
Hi all. Several of you made points similar to the above. But how is
decorating a wrist any more utilitarian than decorating a wall?
They’re both essentially useless. But to the soul and the eye they
can be treasures. Now a chair at least I could sit my ass in. But
unless you’re talking Sam Maloof, the chairmaker can’t get painter
prices either.
Another aspect mentioned is the reputation of the artist in
determining price. This is so true, and yet a mixed blessing.
Becoming more popular than your ability to handle it and still be
creative and happy is a scary prospect even at the other end of the
poverty scale. And becoming a star after you’re dead doesn’t help
much at all. But I’ll bet the average person could name more
painters than they could artists in any other medium.
Allan
But how is decorating a wrist any more utilitarian than decorating a wall?
I’m going to clarify the art/craft thing, as well as I understand
it, without taking sides. There’s a riot going on ;} I can see some
of the value of it, though. It’s not my opinion, and it’s not
something like a definition that can be re-defined. It’s attitude…
“Fine” art has no purpose beyond being. Once something has a
purpose, it’s not fine art, and some might say it’s not art at all
but craft (again, prevailing attitudes, not me). The reason for that
is because the purpose defines the work - it creates walls and
barriers. Art has no barrier - theoretically, anyway. Once you make
a wrist decoration, whether you call it a bracelet or not, you are
locked into a form - something that can decorate a wrist. If your
form can’t be put onto a wrist, then it’s not a wrist decoration but
something else (obvious). A bowl IS a bowl - you can call a table a
“bowl” out of some sort of art-speak conceptualizing, but that’s
just specious. If it’s not a bowl, then it’s something else. If it’s
a bowl then it has some defining properties that we consider
“bowl-ness” and those constraints mean that it cannot be “true” or
“fine” art.
There is, I believe, some validity to all this (essentially
snobbery). Fine art is free to be anything at all, unrestrained by
form or function. It’s also specious to get into the physical
realities - paint has to go ON something, etc. Completely
unrestrained art is only imagination - real art is a communication
in some medium. But the art world at large pretty much has a dividing
line that’s not going away anytime soon: art is for art’s sake, form
with function is craft or something, but not “true” art. Agree or
disagree, it’s how the world works, by and large.
I’ve been following this thread and also find myself a bit
disgruntled at the perception that fine craft just isn’t as good as
fine art… I had a discussion recently with a painter friend about
art associations and pointed out that fine art associations are
usually about selling their member’s work whereas fine craft
associations are typically about workshops, learning more. Why is
that and does that say anything meaningful about how we perceive our
different forms of artwork?
Maybe more importantly, while there’s historic precedant for
universal biases about fine art and fine craft, times have changed. I
think it’s long since time that fine art stop looking down on fine
craft and accept the fact that art is art. And no, I don’t want to
set off the “what is art” theme but don’t mind tackling archaic
perceptions. It also just seems to be part of human nature to try and
distinguish ourselves from one another… that’s fine but why do it
by lessening others?
Lisa Van Herik
www.wovenwirestudio.com
www.beadifferent.com
I have wondered if jewelry, being a personal item, might be seen as a selfish purchase as opposed to other forms of art that could be enjoyed by others.
This is an interesting point, BUT, isn’t the jewelry you wear
enjoyed by others? I emphasize that I’m selling compliment
generators. And how much jewelry would people wear if there was no
one to notice or care? In fact, I specialize in cuff bracelets
because it’s one of the few jewelry forms that the wearer can see
and enjoy as much or more than everyone else.
But earrings, necklaces, brooches, belt buckles- these are worn
primarily for the enjoyment of others, while wearers bask in the
glow of their acknowledged good taste. There is an interesting irony
in buying great jewelry you can’t see yourself. And how many great
paintings are locked up in private homes and collections that you’ll
never see? I don’t think pride of self (jewelry) is all that
different than pride of home (paintings)
Allan
Allan, Why don’t you try making a $4000.00 piece and sell it at a art
festival. If you feel your work is comparable in caliber and value,
why not add some higher priced pieces to your booth to see, if they
sell… maybe you will be surprised. I try to have a range of priced
pieces in my booth to meet more connoisseurs desires.
I have not worked my way up to $4000, but it may now be a goal to get
higher than $1000.00 for an individual piece at art fair.
Melissa
How Envy Killed the Crafts Movement.
and links found along the way to finding that podcast:
from 1986
from 2000
both by Walter Darby Bannard
How Envy Killed the Crafts Movement.
It is here:
http://www.museumofcontemporarycraft.org/programs_lecture.php
Elaine
It starts with what we were taught in school. Preschool through at
least Middle School teaches about famous painters in art classes.
They talk about Picasso, Rembrandt and Degas; not Faberge, Lalique or
Chihuly. Most people have no further art education.
Jamie
This art/craft thing, to me, is rather simple to decide:
The biggest difference is called emotion: Art provokes emotion. I
can cry over music, be touched by a painting or absorbed by watching
a dance.
Now emotion is something very personal, and it’s not that everybody
has it over the same thing all the time. But the more people are
"touched" by a piece, the finer the art, the higher the price.
There are pieces in ceramics that are art, but often this is just
craft, with tableware at the very end: craft for daily useage
And I am still waiting for the piece of jewellery that I could cry
over. Many pieces are technically magnificant, brilliant work, master
pieces and all that. Perfect craft, but no art.
Eventually, people pay more easily for the emotions that art brings
to them.
And I am still waiting for the piece of jewellery that I could cry over.
I make that. That’s specifically what I do these days – jewelry
with emotional content.
The biggest difference is called emotion: Art provokes emotion. I can cry over music, be touched by a painting or absorbed by watching a dance.
Andreas- I’ve seen plenty of pieces of jewelry that have made me
cry. However most of them were repair projects that puked all over my
bench.
Have fun and make lots of jewelry.
Jo Haemer
www.timothywgreen.com
Hi all. About five minutes after I sent my original rant on this, I
realized that my generalization was too broad. Of course there are
inexpensive paintings and prints, just as there is very expensive
jewelry, sculpture, pottery. woodworking, etc. The population I was
specifically referring to are the artists doing a typical better A&C
show. Some are certainly relatively successful compared to their
neighbors, but apparently not so successful that they don’t have to
stand in the hot sun for two days flogging their work
Another thing I should have pointed out is that I’m not trying to
sell $4000 items like my neighbor’s painting, but rather $400
bracelets. I have known many painters who sold nothing at a show;
but that, of course, doesn’t tell the whole story. Much business can
be done later. My odds are probably higher of taking something home
in my pocket, while his odds are greater of hitting it big.
I don’t deal in precious stones, but in silver and a bit of gold. My
materials costs are significantly lower that those of you at the
higher end, but I’ll bet they’re higher than the painter’s,
certainly on a relative basis. Maybe potential customers of mine
would blanch at a higher priced item, thinking “But it’s only
silver”. So why not “It’s just paint and canvas”?
Southwest Art magazine regularly runs a feature geared to people
looking to begin collections. They typically feature one piece from
four or five newer artists. The pictures are typically smaller and
range from maybe $800 to $4000. I have frequently looked at these
offerings and thought “How are these worth way more than the great
new bracelet I just finished”? In terms of time, talent, and
aesthetics they could well be equal. Yet I rarely sell anything over
$800, and forget $4000. Much of that is certainly my fault for not
doing better work and more expensive materials, but these paintings
often illustrate the adage that less is sometimes more. Why
shouldn’t the same apply to jewelry?
I’m thinking that it may come down to a snootiness factor, a belief
among many that painters are the only true “Artists”, with a bone
maybe thrown to the sculptors. Whenever you hear on the news that
some work of art was sold for many millions, I’ll bet you a dollar
that it was a painting. My boxmaking neighbor at the show told me
about a guy who balked at great $600 box he loved, then went down
the aisle and bought 2 paintings totalling $7500- leaving both us
saying yet again, “WTF?”
Allan
I'm thinking that it may come down to a snootiness factor, a belief among many that painters are the only true "Artists",
Mostly well said, Allan. I’ll also say I think your bracelets are
real nice…
Speaking not as an artist or craftsman, but as an art lover and
shopper/potential buyer, I think many people here and elsewhere
think too much of themselves. The great paintings and sculptures of
the world portray the human condition throughout history. An the
not-so-great… To suggest that ANY piece of jewelry is in the
same league as Guernica or any Rodin is ludicrous and frankly
clueless. Sorry, but let’s have some perspective here… It’s just
jewelry. I get what you’re saying above, but I don’t think it’s
snootiness at all.
The great museums and art of the world draw people in the millions,
every day. I know, “It comes from your soul…” But it’s a silver
ring, not “David”.
Hello, All,
I was trained as a 2-d artist first, a designer second and a jeweler
third. I consider a beautifully designed plastic bowl at Target
’art’. Fine design, whether on a canvas or a table or a finger
transforms function to art. There is art for art’s sake jewelry, too
(look at the Lark 500 series). Why do painters pull in more $? They
have marketed themselves into that position. People expect to pay
more for a canvas because they are sold on the appreciation value
(unless they can afford anything they like and want without limit -
we all want that kind of customer). We can do the same, if we
choose, but, like you said, Allan, you may go a whole show without
selling anything. The business may come later. That is why it is
important to distinguish yourself as a brand if you want to make a
lot of $. Look at Yurman. Get a good, distinctive logo, a look for
your presentation, position yourself however you can. Go global. On
my recent trip through Europe I picked up business cards and talked
to potential retailers in Rome, Venice, London. Get yourself a great
website. Have a special night in-store for old and new customers
with food and wine. Educate your current customers (on that customer
contact list that you have updated regularly through mail and
email). Contact magazines. Hire a rep. It’s up to us how big we want
to get. And the promo angle is like a business in itself that takes
up a lot of time.
Btw, on said trip, I spent 4 hours in the Victoria and Albert
Museum’s Jewellery Collection and I swear, it was worth the price of
the plane ticket and the hotel!!! An absolute must-see of technique,
history and inspiration!!!
To a decent living for all of us! All teh best,
Nanette Kroupa
Years ago I spent hours cutting, shaping, and polishing two
fireagates… The silver rings made to hold each of these took the
better part of another day - they were BEAUTIFUL! The stones were
flawless, the fire was so brilliant you could still see it when you
closed your eyes. The metal work was a thing of joy, a computer could
not have made a better piece of finished work. At the same time I was
given a baby food jar half full of Turquoise (for lack of a better
description) warts. I flattened one side of six of these (less than a
minute). Made each a sawtooth bezel, which was then soldered to a
dime sized piece of flat sheet stock. Doubled three feet of 26 gauge
wire and twisted it to make the rope that was soldered around the
base of each bezel, then trimmed away any excess stock. Using half
round ring shank, and splitting it aprox 3/8 of an inch on each end,
then bending each back to make a small heart on both ends. After
shaping on on the ring mandrel they were soldered to the bezel plate.
(less than an hours work) Pickled (ten min) stones set (twenty
minutes) Six rings polished (an hour). Now we have six turquoise
pinky rings that took less than three hours to complete.
The next day all eight rings went on display at a local resturant,
everyone (everyone!) wanted to know how much the pinky rings were. To
say that it upset me that not one asked about the two Rembrant’s in
my display case would be an understatement. This is 1975. Sold all
six of the pinky rings for an obsene amount of money, gave away the
fireagate rings to my daughters.
For tha last three years My wife and I have been taking lessons in
oil painting. Did you know that it takes upward of fourty hours to
complete a quality piece of art, some much much more depending on
the size of the canvas, and that is for profeshional artists. Some
of the tubes of paint are $50 an ounce. There was possibly more
money spent on the paint on that canvas than there was for the
silver in that $400 bracelet.
Now I have said all of this to let you know a valuable lession I
learned in 1975.
BEAUTY IS ALL IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
Gary
Hello Gary;
yes you are correct about beauty being in the eye of the beholder I
have had this discusion more than a few times with artist and
jewelers and jewelers who were also artists. Let’s also not for get
that the 3 or so hours that it took you to make those rings came
from considerable practice and hours, not just 3 hours.I also made
turqoise jewelry in the seventies as a teenager, I was a production
silversmith, every morning I was given 26 gauge sheet,a roll of 1/2
round wire, bezel, and turqoise stones that were stuck to a piece of
card board with masking tape, by the end of the day i would have 50
simple twist wire rings completely finished.you do get better and
faster at things,like production line painting (starving artists
going out of business sale any sofa sized painting just $59.00, etc),
I realize you said “quality"painting.I painter friend of mine was
asked at a show how long it took her to paint this picture, this
question was obviously aimed at trying to determine how much she was
making per hour,I thought her answer was absolutely brilliant when
she replied " A few hours, and about fifty years!”
How many of us are absolutely sick of having people pick up our work
and have people weighing it in thier hands to then tell us how much
it “should be” based on the price of the components!
If we have to EXPLAIN or justify, why the painting is thousands of
dollars or the bracelt is hundredes of dollars. Then we have to go
to far back in explaining,… basically, art in general, the value
and expression of materials, etc.
They either get it, or they don’t. We usually only have a few
seconds or minutes to spend with customers at shows.
Frank