Hey this reminds me of my own life experience where I was interested in designing a chain where by all the links could be soldered individually and separately, and then connected. Eventually after thinking of this problem and playing with ideas, I came up with a way of folding a ring 2 ways and threading them together… I thought I had hit upon a brilliant design idea!
Until I noticed the same chain design in a male toilet pull to flush!
It made me smile and realize the meaning in the saying “there is nothing new under the sun” ,there is very little that has not been thought of before 
This guy is not using a lawyer, I suspect he would also have a hard time proving ownership of the original design. It looks like that design could have links to the bronze age or earlier…
Everybody started once with a basic piece, everybody!
Everybody was glad to learn from anybody at a certain moment.
Everybody nows how difficult it was when he/she looks back into the past.
Therefore, evrybody knows where you come from and where you going for.
There are more helping hands in this forum then you ever know.
As far as I’m concerned, I never feeled that I wasted my time by reading an article.
There is always something to learn from any topic if you think about it.
Sometimes how not to beheave and sometimes to be humble.
Looking forward for your questions
Best regards
I too mostly lurk, though I do occasionally add something if I see something I can add of value. From years of lurking here I see that this forum offers many different things to a great variety of people involved in the art and craft of jewelrymaking.
From thpse who are at this point just beginning to Masters. From amateurs and hobbyists to full scale, full time Designers and manufacturers
As a bench jeweler, setting, reparing specialist and laser welder, with over 40 years riding the bench, I often feel that discussions are tilted more towards the “artsy” end of the jewery spectrum, yet I do not feel unwelcome, and I refuse to be intimidated by other’s views of me.
This forum is here so EVERYONE has a place they can ask questions, offer advice, learn, teach and share.
Do not let a few rude insecure, self important loudmouths drive you away. They are a vocal minority here, as the tone of most of this thread shows.
Make jewelry, have fun, grow, ask questions and share. Everyone here started out as a beginner, and every single one of us owes someone who came before us for the tools, techniques, styles, skills and growth in this craft, even if a few might act like they alone were born Masters and Designer To The King.
There are no stupid questions, but there can be some awefully stupid responses.
Philip, if your male-toilet-pull design is the one where each loop is bent to a u-shape so that each can be threaded through the next, needing solder only on the end, yes, that design is several thousand years old. (-: We humans are, if left to our own thoughts, full of hubris, eh? My belief is that very little is new. If another human hasn’t already thought of it, Mother Nature has. And it seems that those who deserve the most credit never get it. For example, my choice for Nobel Peace prize would be the well-rounded, insightful person who invented the bathroom exhaust fan. (-;
Regarding getting attorneys involved: most will suggest that one first try to work things out without attorneys, if possible.
cheers,
Lorraine
I’ve been working as a bench jeweler full time since 1978. Self employed and employing several goldsmiths for most of those years. Two things from that experience are clear to me.
One is that I truly have learned as much or more from those people that I’ve trained over the years.
The second is that the more I learn and the more I improve my skills (which I believe improve every day), the more I realize how I’ll just never have enough time on this earth to learn everything I want to know.
So while you may feel like you’re too inexperienced to post, I feel like your posting is doing me a great service.
Mark
If I remember correctly, a design altered 10% or more, can be created by people & they can get away without “infringement” of copyright. That was related to architectural work (millennium copyright act).
If something is truly fabulous and unique with a mechanical or functional aspect, it could be patented or similar a stretch further than a design copyright. I consulted with an attorney once about patenting a design device. I make them and never bothered to go thru the patent process.
Also, had a client I did lighting & sculptural design for. He set up a factory in China about 15 years ago. His associate who went to China to inspect the first articles made from samples shipped there had an eye opening shock. The firsts weren’t what was expected so she went looking for the samples. She opened the first closed door in the outside hallway. A ROOM FULL OF KNOCKOFFS. Under Chinese law at the time, if you change the tiniest detail (like the threading on a screw)…it’s a different product and you don’t have any recourse. His solution was making most of his components in China and shipping the pieces to a second factory in MX for assembly. It made it more difficult for knockoffs to happen simultaneously with a new product release.
So the point is, there’s “infringing” and there’s INFRINGING! Change something you might admire and make it truly your own.
I can’t imagine that the wrap ring or bracelet with end & centered baubled bezels could withstand a copyright challenge. And is it worth the $ spent too go there?
Eileen
What Mark said, times two, both posts.
As to the OP’s infringement problem, I think the question was concerning Etsy, not the US Federal Trade laws. From what I’ve seen of Etsy in the last few years, it seems to have become somewhat of a no-holds-barred free-for-all with Etsy pretty much blowing off all it’s own stated rules, so I wouldn’t worry about it unless and until Etsy takes some kind of action. Even then I wouldn’t give it too much attention until a Cease and Desist letter is received from an attorney via Registered Mail. Until then it’s no more than so much hot air.
Dave Phelps
Ha Ha everyone has seen that chain it is pressed from sheet and if you open a link it would be an elongated 8 and Yes the exhaust fan deserves a prize!
I totally agree with the “sort it out without attorneys”, as that just ends up multiplying the costs.
I am thinking that the person trying to claim copyright really has to prove their original ownership, and date from which this commenced.
If there is any prior design by anyone else, then there is no case. I would be researching the antiquities to refute any claims of ownership.
The other question though is “Did the maker (original person putting this post up) copy the design from the complainer?” thinking that it is just a generic one with no care or original thinking.
A friend of mine received a cease and desist letter because she used the
phrase “fairy dust” on Etsy from the person who said she owned the phrase.
So it isn’t only designs that cause attention. The person who says she
owns the phrase is a lawyer, makes jewelry to sell on Etsy and has sent
letters to several people. “Fairy dust” - really!
Barbara who is looking at daffodiles
What is the product the person is selling? Is it the same or similar to the product the complainent is selling? If so, your friend might have a problem.
Jerry in Kodiak
I was talking to the person that wanted to spend time and money on the ring that has three little round disks of silver on the top, going into legal matters .You are correct, I won’t be waisting my time reading Ganoksin in the future. I came to Ganoksin to hopefully find some good information in the Metalsmithing field. Ganoksin used to have excellent articles by professionals giving us information on different problems that can and do come up in the Metalsmithing field. There were videos along with Essays on different types of work, all by professionals who didn’t ever waste our time with small talk. Their information always seemed to answer a question that would come up in their area of expertise.
By the way, there is nothing out there that hasn’t been done by someone somewhere in the past. The old masters did it all.
edit: not worth it…
If you scroll to the top of the page, on the top left side of the screen is an arrow that says “Back to Ganoksin”.
Click on it.
Then, click on the green box that says “Visit our Learning Center”, to see all the articles and videos.
It’s this the same Fairy Dust used by Peter Pan to allow Tinker Bell and Wendy to fly? I would suppose the phrase to be public domain by now.
richard_hart42d1 seth-ganoksin-admin
Has anyone made a ring like this, do you have a picture of one, please!
Need to find out if it is a copyright infringement to make one.
Someone is claiming infringement, an application has apparently been filed, not approved, and the person who filed is being manipulative, not using a lawyer, not filing in court, filed copyright infringement on Etsy against a friend who has been on Orchid over the years, Laura Ann Brito.
Getting back to the point.
This person did not ask for a critique on design.
There is a request on the legal status of a claim of design ownership.
Having dealt withs this topic legally, on a challenge of ownership on a particular aspect of a design I use often, and winning.
I can say with certainty that the only answer to this post is going to come from an attorney with a specialty in what’s called “Trade Dress”.
By Definition;
Trade dress is a legal term of art that generally refers to characteristics of the visual appearance of a product or its packaging (or even the design of a building) that signify the source of the product to consumers. Trade dress is a form of intellectual property.
It’s interesting to see our opinions shared, but unfortunately, they can not answer the question posted in any meaningful manner.
As Seth said.
This is a matter for an attorney.
The post asked if anyone had made one (yes / no)
Does anyone have a picture (yes / no)
How and why have these two simple questions turned into a critique on design and a dismissal of Ganoksin’s value?
I thank those that have taken the high road and shared the value of this site, without diminishing other people in the process.
Jim
This thread has just about worn beyond its usefulness,
however id like to add just one more thought with reference to your last post Jim.
You , along with others have chosen to critisize those who have expressed an opinion about the value or otherwise of this design in relation to the amount of effort needed to establish its design ownership.
By doing so with out quoting the wording with which you disagree , you deny those who expressed their opinion the right of reply.
Thats not fair in my opinion.
So what was it that you didnt like?
Ted.
The original question, which was posted 2 days ago, has not yet been answered.
If you believe this thread is useless, then stop responding to it.
What is not useful in this thread are derogatory statements such as this one:
…What was stuck on the disks? plastic half round beads!!!
It shows how stupid some people are. A real crap product unworthy of this forum.
And then you cry:
…you deny those who expressed their opinion the right of reply.
Thats not fair in my opinion.
So what was it that you didnt like?
The original question was “have you made a ring like this and do you have a picture?”. You indicated you have made this type of design and you have a picture, yet you have not shared your photo.
You denigrated the design of this ring which was made by one of our members. Then you said the ring was unworthy of this forum, which frightened one of our newest members into wondering if she is in the right place.
Leanne, that was just one grumpy person. Please hang in here and enjoy community with many helpful, interested jewelers who are well balanced individuals.
In response to the original infringement posting, this appears to be a variation on the ‘troll’ phenomena, which is usually a shoddy shakedown operation - I’m surprised the attack was not accompanied by a ‘fee for licensing’ schedule. Safely ignore them, or threaten all manner of countersuits for the fun of it; they are bottom feeders, preying on the unwary and unexperienced.
By the time I quit doing juried shows, signage warning of instant death should a patron photograph anything in an artist’s booth had rally proliferated. 2-D artists actually do have a substantial problem here, given the high resolution of current cameras and cell phones. Some 3-D artists, ceramicists and iron workers in particular, have had their ‘ideas’ swiped, and later seen them reproduced in mass quantities by offshore manufactories; a few have secured seizure of inventories and cease and desist orders against the knockoffers, likely at great legal cost.
With fine art/fine craft jewelry, this is not so much of a problem. I made hand fabricated silver pieces for years, worrying a little at the outset that it wouldn’t be too long until the offshore slave labor compounds would begin cranking out look-alikes. It never happened for 2 reasons. First, nearly all imported silver work is cheesy junk. Flimsy - the cost of silver discourages them from making substantial pieces which will wear well. They rely more on the cheap labor to over-ornament. Poorly done - covered with fire stain, solder blobs, glue, etc. Second, they almost always use indigenous stones, poorly cut and unattractive. I found making durable (heavier gauges of silver), well finished, pieces with very attractive cabs put me far ahead of Balinese, Mexican, etc sweatshops.
In short, it your work looks anything like most of the crap sold on etsy, its time for an upgrade in materials, design, and/or workmanship. This will keep you way ahead of the mass importers, and provide entry to a grade of patrons who appreciate the difference between a $100 ring, and a ring which came out of a 72 slot tray all bought wholesale for $100.
I have followed this thread closely. And I have really reached no set opinion. Perhaps it is because I view my work as craft jewelry and not the art jewelry I see from Jim or Ted or many others. Much of what I learned, I learned from Dad but the most I learned from doing on my own. I have volumes of design note books filled with stuff that clearly is not the purpose of the meeting I was sitting through at the office. I have pages of earrings that started out as what I saw on someone’s ear but by the time I was making it it had morphed into something unrecognizable as the inspiration.
My son is now working at his own bench using the books that I tried on for formulae and advice. Tim McCreight’s masterful work. And a gray spiral college shop manual filled with examples and basic techniques. With all this stimulation I think it is impossible not to have some similarity at some point. And the best part of one off jewelry is you can never truly repeat it.
Ill post an unfinished craft piece that is vaguely similar to the original in question. I make these so there is an affordable piece of jewelry at my shows for the young woman on a budget. It’s fun to make and it is substantial. Is it 100% my design? Of course not but it is hallmarked by me and that proves it’s my work. That’s good enough for me.
Don Meixner
