Is it Art? Is it Craft?

Jewelry Discussion
21

Not to incite an argument here - just a comment on the below -

I have actually seen the elephants here in Thailand doing this sort
of painting and it is really cool. And I also have to say that I have
one of their works on the wall of my living room right now. The money
that is collected from these paintings (at least in Chang Mai) goes
to support the elephant farm and rescue effort.

I did not pay a fortune for it - in fact it was quite reasonable -
nonetheless…this topic (art vs craft) will never really have an
answer.

Cheers
Carree

22

Hi Noel;

You make some very interesting points. I once got snookered by a
department head into taking a doctoral level cultural anthropology
course on the subject. Of course, the anthros had their own tribal
language and it wasn’t the same as the art history department’s, but
I got the gist of it after enduring a couple weeks of sheer panic.
Everybody we read or talked about had an answer to “what is art” and
almost no two answers were in agreement or even similar. In fact,
the instructor deliberately chose theorists who had some pretty
unusual criteria for what constitutes art. So this "what is art"
conversation can go on indefinitely and never get to the next
question, which is, “is it GOOD art?”.

I’ve found that when something risks being questionable as far as
being good art, it can effectively survive by getting people stuck at
arguing over whether it is art or not in the first place. In my
opinion, and we know I’ve got opinions to spare, there are a lot of
people who think that the whole point of making art is to get people
to wonder if it is, in fact, art. And they are learning this, I
think, by watching the success of people who have mastered the trick
of getting people to argue whether what they do is art. Meanwhile,
according to one theorist I studied, we here on Orchid are mostly in
our own little subset of the larger art world. It’s a big enough
little pond to have a lot of fun in though.

David L. Huffman

23

simply buying white paint to paint a canvas white…not only
uninspirational, but pretty lazy art.

but we have to make a difference here between mediocre art and
covering your house in beer cans…ineresting, yes…art, maybe.

I think you can create with junk that is inspirational and
interesting and yes, i think it can be art. (i cannot believe I am
defending the beer can guy!)

In America it is very popular to do “folk art” (probably not the
right term) many of these date to the mid-1900’s and many of these
projects got out of hand…New Jersey has it’s great share of this
type of art…places like the palace of depression:

http://www.WeirdNJ.com/home/index.html

many of these “old-timers” would spend their entire lifetime
completing these projects. alot of these can be found on this website
( a great website for the roadside traveler,and yes, the beer can
house is there too):

here in pennsylvania a gentleman spent his entire life building a
minature train set that is simply amazing. 6000 sq. feet of Little
people and exact landscapes and trains and waterfalls and moveable
parts galore. It has been luring roadside travelers since 1941. it
is amazing and inspirational…art… maybe.

-julia potts
julia potts studios

24 
A series of multi-sized canvases with white paint. That's it. The
whole exhibit.

I suddenly have the urge to go put fat, bold, messy crayola colored
brush swipes across each of those blank boxes. Or maybe glue a big
red leaf to the middle of each one. I think I’m allergic to white
(and beige shudder). LOL

To each, his own…

25

David,

I took your suggestion and googled “Gresham’s Law”. The relation to
coinage is no problem. I am not quite making the light leap to its
connection to the Arts and Crafts. I would appreciate your insights.
I know that the unwashed masses go for as much flash as possible for
as little cash as possible. I am I thinking in the right direction?

Bill Churlik
@Bill_Churlik
www.earthspeakarts.com

26

I think art is anything that makes you “think” or somehow tells a
story. Remember the pile of sweet-n-low someone did years ago? To
many folks it is just a pile of sweet-n-low, but to an ex-fat person
it might represent years of struggle. Who knows what speaks to a
particular person?

I don’t think something has to be ‘intended’ to be art to speak to
someone’s heart either. Many artists, poets, etcetera, never
intended anyone to see their work, yet years later they became
mainstays or even icons. My Dad is rock mason of 30+ years and
doesn’t see his work as art, but, the lucky recipients of his
fireplaces and patios certainly see the final product in a different
light. You just never know.

Hmm, been thinking about that row of blank canvases…maybe the
artist wanted people to dream up ways to fill them…I know I have
been ever since I saw the photo.

27

If you like cars, try http://www.petersen.org/default.cfm?docid=1019
Great mettle.

Karen Christians
M E T A L W E R X
50 Guinan St.
Waltham, MA 02451
Ph. 781/891-3854 Fax 3857
http://www.metalwerx.com/
Jewelry/Metalarts School & Cooperative Studio

28

Oh this thread is delighting me. As a new manager of an art
gallery,I’ve been asked by the artists to tell them if they have
art. I shudder at the thought of being a critic. My reply to them is
to pick from their pieces the most favorite. I will present it to the
public. I’ll let the public decide if it’s “art”. The discussions
and reactions alone are enough to signify it’s worthy. A negative
reaction is still a reaction. Does the artist want to show anger,
texture, color, delight, form? The art is in the artist. It’s up to
us to react in whatever way.

29

So, all those who have used the term “ottist”, or who have expressed
their disdain for the artist statement, MFA, Metalsmith, SNAG, etc.:
what do you call yourselves?

Must something be beautiful, formally pleasing or technically
sophisticated to be considered art?

Is beauty enough?
Just curious,
Andy

30 
  Make sure you have somebody write a flowery artist's statement,
though.

Just got back from teaching in the Midwest. One part of my
responsibilities was to rate the overall quality (presentation, work,
concept, execution, etc) of the BFA exhibition in the university’s
gallery.

I read all of the artists’ statements. Some, were obvious and
overwrought justifications of poorly conceived and executed work.
Many were horribly written, cliched essays that, in my eyes, brought
my enjoyment of what was otherwise strong undergraduate work down.

But there were a few that were written quite well, whose ideas were
carefully thought out and honestly presented. These statements left
me with more than when I started and gave me another
window into the work that, in the end, allowed me to appreciate it
more. (The statement was not intrinsic to the success of the piece.)
A good statement can do that: it’s somewhat like the “making of”
extras on DVD’s. The movie stands quite well on its own but is
enhanced with more

There’s a lot of bad statements out there and there’s a lot of bad
work out there (PMC, cast, fabricated, forged, enamelled, what have
you). There’s also a lot of work that I don’t understand or
appreciate. The one thing that I have learned is to to try to be
more considerate of something before I dismiss it or tar it as
“ott”, “artsy fartsy”, “art speak”, “hobbiest crap” or “pretty but
shallow fine jewelry”. As with all of us, there’s been a couple of
occasions when I’ve changed a long held and carefully cultivated
opinion about something because I began to understand it in a
different way. (I suppose this by necessity extends to PMC…)

At any rate, we’re all too smart on this forum to automatically
write off all artists’ statements–flowery or otherwise-- and all
PMC as worthless and misleading, aren’t we?

I wholeheartedly believe that these threads and discussions should
continue. They are the sometimes the most stimulating posts I read.

Andy Cooperman

31 
I think art is anything that makes you "think" or somehow tells a
story. Remember the pile of sweet-n-low someone did years ago?  To
many folks it is just a pile of sweet-n-low, but to an ex-fat
person it might represent years of struggle. Who knows what speaks
to a particular person?

The first “arts and crafts show” I sold atwas also attended by an
old guy who was selling these things consisting of two dowels
mounted on a piece of wood. A string ran from one dowel to the other
like a little clothesline, and on the string a washer was strung.

It was a “washer and dryer,” get it?

He was not representing it as conceptual art, though…

Maybe he should have.

Lee Einer
Dos Manos Jewelry
http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com

32

Hi Bill;

You’ve got the general idea. Here’s how I think it works in our
area, especially in the craft show and galleries. Suppose the local
craft gallery is known for representing splendid work by noteworthy
artists. The makes other great artists want to put their work in
that gallery. But suppose the gallery owner imagines that he needs
more “stuff” to catch customers who might not buy an expensive piece
but would drop a few bucks on a “chatchka” or two. So he brings in
some cheaply made overseas stuff to put in the corners. Some of the
noteworthy artists notice this and pull their work out. Little by
little, the place fills up with junk to make up for the missing good
art, and it gets harder and harder to replace the good artists
because they don’t want their work lost in the junk and besides,
it’s not selling. Catch my drift here? The bad money is driving out
the good money. The gallery owner is now running something in between
a gift shop and a dollar store and he can’t stop because he’s making
so little money that he needs the money. Better stock up on more
rubber Gecko earrings.

Same thing happens to the craft shows. Let in enough tee-shirt
vendors and eventually the “Bo-Bo’s” leave to spend their money at
the new Framington on the Hamington Craft Benefit and all you’ve got
is the tattoo and halter top crowd milling around munching on snow
cones and they don’t buy art, unless it’s got something to do with
Nascar.

(Gawd, I am sickened by my own class consciousness, sometimes.)

David L. Huffman

33

I’m gonna beg to differ here. There is a distinction between good
craft and art.

There is a flute manufacturing company in Woburn, MA, called Brannen
Bros. They make high end, rose gold and sterling flutes, starting
price, about $10,000.

To me, they are a work of art, and I told the president so. No, he
said, we produce very good craft. I thought about this for a minute,
and finally came to the conclusion that he is correct.

They are made as a production piece, have cast parts, and assembled
with great precision and care. We have become so used to the Walmart
route of crappily made furniture, fast food style assembly, that
anything we look at that is decently made, we call art.

I purchased a lovely brooch for my husband. Once in a great while, he
will find the occasion to wear the brooch on a suit. However, the
times he wears a suit might be once every other year, and I wanted
to see it more often.

I mounted the brooch inside the car, back from the rear view mirror.
Now I see it all the time and it gives me great pleasure. Now, did I
“embellish” the car. Is my car now wearing art? Did I somehow lessen
the object from moving it off the body to my vehicle?

This is one of those great questions that can never be answered.
What makes great art. What makes bad art. And when does bad art
become good.

GREAT THREAD!!!

Karen Christians
M E T A L W E R X
50 Guinan St.
Waltham, MA 02451
Ph. 781/891-3854 Fax 3857
http://www.metalwerx.com/
Jewelry/Metalarts School & Cooperative Studio

34

It should be added that the iconicity of the negative space seems
very disturbing in light of the exploration of montage elements.

. . .for those of you that are at a loss for what to say when
criticing ott go to this website for help.

Instant Art Critique Phrase Generator

http://www.pixmaven.com/phrase_generator.html

Umm… the aura of the sexy fish endangers the devious simplicity of
the eloquence of these pieces.

35 
    Do you folks think that a person must recognize what (s)he is
doing as art before it is art? Is it impossible that what this man
did "to save money" could not have been artfully done? Is it as
ridiculous as paying big money for the results of teaching an
elephant to hold a paintbrush?

Not in the least, Noel. Like David Huffman, I was adding my own
irony to the discussion. If only I were as eloquent as he. Actually,
most art is worthless until somebody recognizes it as such so, no,
the creator doesn’t have to recognize it first.

    I'm not settled on the answers to these questions. I haven't
seen the house, so I'm not prepared to say. But I'm definately not
prepared to assume that it can't be art because 1) the guy didn't
think it was or 2) because it was beer cans. Go ahead, laugh me
off the forum!

Nothing to laugh at as far as I’m concerned, Noel. All beauty is in
the eye of the beholder, sonic pleasure in the ear of same, etc. And
while it’s difficult for me to imagine beer cans that were used
instead of paint being worth 6 figures for restoration by a
Visionary Art center, I would never deny anyone their opinion of
what is art. That was actually my point.

Myself, I’ve been a musician (40-some years and to me, music is
art)) far longer than I’ve been cutting gems or working metals, and
I’ve made some decent money at both, as well as graphic art. One
observation I have that usually holds true is that when art enters
the world of business and commerce, it usually changes for the
worse, and everyone with an MFA wants to slap a label on it. I’m
just saying you don’t need a degree to create or appreciate art,
even (especially) if it’s just beer cans. Heck, one guy I knew in
Mississippi once used black RTV sealer to adhere a few dozen
aluminum Mardi Gras coins to a salvaged brief case and sold it for
$400. He sold it to a tourist as folk art. Who am I to say it
wasn’t?

James in SoFl

36 
  art... maybe.

I think it is the illusory definition that keeps things interesting.
We won’t ever get it “fixed and wriggling on a pin” (to quote T.S.
Elliott, the Love Song of J Alfred Proofrock)-- thank God! That
would be the end of us all!

When I was a freshman in college, I had an experience that has stuck
with me (well, a gew, but one that seems relevant here). A friend of
mine was assigned to write a paper on the existence of free will. We
started discussing it, and agreed that the first thing that had to
be done was to define “free will”. We became so engrossed that we
sat down right where we were, in the corridor of our dorm, and
talked for several hours, with people stepping over and between us.
(Ah, the long-gone good ole days.) When we finally had the
definition figured out, the answer was trivial, obvious. I don’t
remember the definition, or the conclusion (willing to bet it was
“yes, man has free will”), but the process has stayed with me.

I don’t remember who it was, but some philosopher said “The purpose
of philosophy is not to answer questions, but to keep them open”. I
endorse that, and would count art as a branch of philosophy.

That’s why I say, God save us from ever “settling” the question of
what art is, or what is art. The world would be a poorer place.

IMHO.

–Noel

37

Hello Orchidland,

Isn’t this an interesting thread! For those of you who watch
"Everyone Loves Raymond", I am reminded of the episode in which
Marie takes a sculpture class and creates a large abstract piece
that everyone else sees as feminine erotica. She is shocked and
embarrassed when she suddenly sees the same thing.

My translation: a piece will elicit a variety of responses from the
viewers, regardless of the artist’s specific meaning or intention.
How they view the object will relate to their personal bias,
experiences, immediate situation, context, etc. Beauty is in the
beholder, and the beholder’s concept of beauty will change over time
and through experience. Art isn’t necessarily human-made either -
think of snowflakes, landscapes, a single flower, the dramatic
shadows of desert dunes.

I think that art is whatever you view, touch, smell, hear, and/or
taste that brings pleasure, appreciation, or makes you pause and
consider.

Just my US$.02,
Judy in Kansas

38

My visual art for all to see is motorcycles, not only beautiful but
functional also, Now If I can just figure out how to run it on
alcohol, biodeisel , electricty and solar, maybe a fuel cell and
water as a fuel?

Ringman

39

As I see it ''craftsman are now called technicians [self elevation]
and the hands on renasance man is fast disappearing! In todays sell
info society, the lines between a true creator of art and robots
that perform their duties status quo have been tainted and are the
norm. I truley feel lost in todays society!

Ringman

40

OK

I love reading all these ideas people have. Im sure I have some deep
inside my brain too. But I’m feeling lazy tonight. We just bought a
new house and my head is full of all the work I’m gonna have to do to
get the house right before I’m back at making Art, or Craft. I think
if it’s bigger than 4 inches it’s art.

But, before I sign off, I remember the pronouncement of an old friend
who, in turn, was quoting somebody else. She was a great craftsperson
and a great artist so I figure she was well qualified to render an
opinion on this subject, to wit:

“Art is Art! Everything else is everything else!”

Which I think translates to mean " You’ll know it when you see it.
Make up your own mind."

Now I’m gonna go play my mandolin at the Pub. That may be art.
Anyway, it’s fun.

Marty