I'll say it again. Students pursuing a degree in fine arts - ANY
fine art - should be required to take a basic bookkeeping class
and a general business class that includes simple accounting and
taxes. Six lousy credit hours could make a huge difference in their
success in the real world. Promising student atheletes who have a
decent chance to play professionally should also be strongly
encouraged to take the same classes. They need to understand enough
to keep tabs on their agents and accountants!
I couldn’t agree more Judy!!! I received a very expensive BFA at a
small art college, and can tell you the difference between Hegel and
Heidegger, DeKooning and De Chirico, etc… But when it came
time for preparing us for the real world of selling your art and the
business end of it all, they gave us graduating senior painting
students a 1hour talk from an outside business professional! And to
add one more way for us to forget everything this woman said, the
talk came 4 days before graduation! Like learning about business and
taxes was on our priority list at that time, especially from a woman
who looked scared of us arty art students covered in charcoal and
paint!
I don’t regret for a minute the time I spent getting my education,
even though I will be paying the loans for quite a while longer. I do
strongly think that a required business/ tax/ bookkeeping class
should have been in place. I think many undergrad art schools/
programs just gear you to graduate school though.
I haven’t had any income except jewelry since about 1978. Sometimes
there hasn’t been much extra cash, I must admit. One thing, it seems
important to keep expenses low. I remember being at a meeting of a
local jewelry group and this one woman saying how her expenses were
so much and how could she make enough to live on with these costs–
and they were so incredibly high. Well, if you want to support
yourself as an artist, you might have to rethink the payments on your
beemer–okay, I’m being facetious but this woman was serious and her
rent alone was enough to make it impossible to get the whole thing up
and running. I don’t want to make too much of the starving artist
thing, but it’s really difficult to make it in this business if you
can’t keep the initial costs way down. That might mean living in a
loft or some other sort of artist place. Also, in the beginning, it’s
a good idea to have another source of income. I know that doesn’t
exactly support follow your bliss but it’s a reality sandwich. There
were quite a few years when I waitressed because I could support
myself working just three days a week and had the rest of the time to
pursue my jewelry passion. Every idea you come up with may not come
to immediate fruition and the rent is due every month. For instance
I’ve come to realize that almost every good idea I’ve ever had is
about two years ahead of its time. That means it takes a couple of
years for things to pay off. That would be frustrating if I weren’t
so used to it. Sometimes the coolest thing is only loved by
you–better have some other way to make the bills.
Janet, quite successful now, if judged by the stunning amount of
debt I’m carrying.
The trouble is the prerequisites. The art major may not have the
time or ability to complete all the math that is required before
you're even allowed to sign up for accounting, etc.
Our College of Business has only one prereq for Accounting 1 -
college algebra. The bachelor of fine arts degree requires at least
one course in philosophy or math … students may choose between
them. Those that take college algebra are than able to take the
accounting course - not that very many actually choose it. Advisors
have the opportunity to suggest an accounting course as an elective,
but I honestly don’t know if they consider it. So far as a general
overview business course that would help the self-employed artist or
entertainer, it appears that nothing is provided. Community
colleges are more likely to have such a course, and the credit may
transfer.
There seems to be general agreement that fine arts students would
benefit from some business coursework… now how to develop and make
the course(s) available! “…ay, there’s the rub” William
Shakespeare </quotes/William_Shakespeare/>, /“Hamlet”, Act 3 scene
1/ Judy in Kansas
The trouble is the prerequisites. The art major may not have the
time or ability to complete all the math that is required before
you’re even allowed to sign up for accounting, etc.
I graduated from college with a degree in Theatre/Education. Our
theatre department had a course on the business end of running a
theatre. Maybe the art departments need to offer a class on “living
off your art” and give the basics of managing a small business. I
feel very fortunate in a way, I couldn’t get a job teaching, and I
ended up working for a fine jewelry company for awhile as an
assistant to the CEO (who was a CPA). The basics in accounting he
gave me were furthered when I worked for an accounting firm and I
ran payroll for about 20 different companies. I also worked in the
marketing department of a well known computer peripherals
manufacturer, so it seems like all my former jobs pointed to me
being able to run a bead/jewelry business! After five years I’m
still struggling but I’m still here!
Maybe the art departments need to offer a class on "living off
your art" and give the basics of managing a small business.
I’m betting that art departments would be extremely resistant to
doing any such thing. A dose of reality - a MEANINGFUL dose of
reality - might send too many students running for a major in
something they might be able to support themselves from.
My husband’s experience at art school in the 60’s suggests that art
schools do indeed pull their punches when it comes to giving
students any sort of reality check about what they’ll find when they
graduate. When he was a student the only teacher who tried to give
the students some preparation for reality was summarily fired.
a MEANINGFUL dose of reality - might send too many students running
for a major in something they might be able to support themselves
from.
If the “reality” is how likely you are to fail if you are not
prepared, you are right.
But the lesson ought to preparation for reality with the expectation
that you are smart enough to succeed.
When I was at Syracuse University in the 1970s, Michael Jerry spent a
week where he brought in several people to talk to us about the biz.
We had a woman who advertised in local classified ads to sell custom
wedding rings, a gallery owner and someone else who told us what to
do to keep records for taxes. Later at Carbondale, Brent Kington had
someone come in who had done wholesale shows and had also worked in
several production shops. We also had a workshop on writing grants. In
both of these programs any visiting artists were encouraged to tell
us about their marketing plans, if they had any.
If I were teaching, I would expand on this lead and give my students
several perspectives on how to make a living outside of teaching.
There are MANY ways to succeed. It is constantly amazing how often
otherwise creative people don’t have much imagination when it comes to
selling their work. But others do make a good living. Students need
to have people who have succeeded in the real world shown to them as
often as possible. And not just the art-stars.
Another thing the schools need to do is work on setting up
internships and job placement. Real apprenticeship seems to be very
rare these days, but it is an excellent way to pass on the art and
mystery of any craft. I learned a great deal about business and also
how to keep my nose to the grindstone when I spent a year working for
another craftsman after I was out of school. Even if a student
eventually becomes a teacher, some time spent working in the field
will make them a better teacher.
Under the old pre-industrial apprenticeship system, the intermediate
step between apprentice and master was to work for wages as a
journeyman. If a journeyman switched jobs several times before he set
up his own shop, not only did he get the perspective of several
masters, he also learned things from multiple other journeymen, who
also were moving around in the business. I would urge any student
reading this, that if you want to set up your own studio, try to get
some full time employment working for someone else for a while. Even
better if you can work in several other shops before you go it on
your own.
My husband's experience at art school in the 60's suggests
that art schools do indeed pull their punches when it comes to
giving students any sort of reality check about what they'll find
when they graduate. When he was a student the only teacher who
tried to give the students some preparation for reality was
summarily fired.
It hasn’t changed. They actually got rid of the entire metal arts
department at the university my son attends just to be able to get
rid of one particular professor there (who was much loved for his
reality-based attitude).
Granted it was a small department to start with, but it freaks me
out that the university hierarchy would cut of its nose to spite its
face in this particularly devastating fashion.
Ok, I have to ask… what IS a major that would allow someone to
support themselves decently these days? Certainly not info tech since
that is being off-shored, maybe medical if you can afford the
schooling… not sure what else… I feel bad for my daughter.
It hasn't changed. They actually got rid of the entire metal
arts department at the university my son attends just to be able to
get rid of one particular professor there (who was much loved for
his reality-based attitude). Granted it was a small department to
start with, but it freaks me out that the university hierarchy
would cut of its nose to spite its face in this particularly
devastating fashion.
At my old graduate school, a similar unfortunate situation occurred.
The department itself is safe, as the strongest department in the
art school, and the famous reputation of the tenured department head.
But his wife, one of his long ago former graduate students, was a
year to year deans appointment instructor who’s taught there for many
years on that basis. Now understand, she too, has a national
reputation, is a fine artist, and was much loved as a wonderful and
sensitive teacher, especially with beginning level students, and the
high school summer arts program she ran brought in many new students
(and thus money) to the school as a result of her skills. But
interdepartmental personal resentments and jealousies led the acting
dean (a graphic arts prof, she’s the acting temporary dean till they
appoint a “real” dean) to not to manage to find a trumped up silly
reason to not renew this fine teachers appointment, solely as a means
of getting back at the department chair, who she otherwise cannot
touch. Clearly a fine example of mature scholarly intellectual
leadership, a fine example for all those students to follow as they
learn how to be adults. Yup. Indeed. This might be a useful training
example if the school were training corrupt politicians or ambulance
chasing lawyers, but not much else. So it goes.
I didnt catch the whole thread of the conversation, but as to jobs
that are somewhat cheap to learn, and somthing you can support
yourself on, here are some ideas.
Interior decoration, I dont think thats very expensive. What about
fashion Design is that costly? Or perhaps landscaping? Im just
throwin stuff out, things like that, dont require much schooling, so
she can save up, and go to college for what she would want.
If you feel bad for your daughter I suggest that you have her major
in Chinese! All of the worlds business’s are going there one way or
the other. Also, she should study Spanish as well, that will cover
the States and South America. She should plan on moving out of the
country, because if you really look at the big picture, we are in for
a huge decline in our standard of living here. No doubt about it. We
can’t keep pillaging the world like Britain did in the 1900’s.
Technology is going to scrape us off the top of the empire pile. We
can’t expect everyone here in the states to work in the service
industries catering to the needs of the ultra rich. Have her get a
Mastersdegree in Enviromental sciences with a 2nd degree in chinese.
Global warming does exist and China is going to spend big bucks
solving this problem. They are not neo-con christians who dream of
Armegeddon solving our problems
My last apprentice Ann, had a BFA and a MFA and wasn’t taught much
about metal, she wanted to use a cutting torch to do basic welding.
She was un aware of many techniques using modern equipment, she had
no idea about Mokume and Damascus steel other than pictures in
books. After two years with me she knew how to use all the tools in
the shop, how to forge weld, cast metals, patine, texture and a lot
more.
My current apprentice, Mindi, went to university in France. She did
learn about culture, the great painter and techniques/processes. She
embosses metal, makes bracelets, is learning how to cut gems and is
becoming really good at casting. She has been with me for a year.
Next I am teaching her how to TIG weld.
Both Ann and Mindi would not gotten jobs when they graduated from
college with what they knew and with their level of training.
I can certainly see someone having an easier time making jewelry
than trying to support themselves as a fashion designer - unless you
have connections with some prestigious people in the business, that
is…
If I really wanted to make some big bucks, I’d learn plumbing, LOL!
Ok, I have to ask.. what IS a major that would allow
someone to support themselves decently these days?
Well…speaking from experience: I got a BA, then got a full-time
job answering phones. Eventually they promoted me, once I’d proven
myself, but I still make less than half what my friends who went to
law school are now making. Of course, they have loans to pay back
and they work until midnight most nights, while I have time to
pursue building a jewelry business and learning all the necessary
skills, since my lower-paying job doesn’t generally require more
than 40 hours of my time each week.
The only people I know who got good paying jobs right out of college
as a direct result of their major are engineers. Even then, these
are people who managed to get really good grades in enginnering,
which is not an easy thing to do. A few friends managed to do well
in business right away and have cushy non-engineering jobs without
going to grad school, but it had nothing to do with what they
majored in.
A few options for non-technical people:
tourism-related jobs, if you live in a tourist area entry level
office work, with hopes of moving up eventually
communications/sales/marketing editorial assitant, research
assistant, personal assistant, etc for someone working in a field
related to your major childcare, if you have good references and live
in an affluent area, with or without college degree teaching -
doesn’t pay that well, but you get summers off
These are things that have worked for people I know, who all
graduated within the past five years.
I meant to add in my last post that all of you who said that an art
education should provide its students with some idea of how to
market themselves and make a living with their work are absolutely
right. I guess I got lucky in the sense that this was part of
senior seminar in the art program I enrolled in - students were
taught how to photograph their work, how to assemble a good
portfolio, how to write a resume and behave in a job interview, and
how to find and contact potential employers. Granted, we still
could have learned a lot more about things like getting into
galleries or selling at art shows, but at least it was a start.
One of the trendiest notions is academia at present is the concept
of “interdisciplinary studies” - synergizing skills and learning
from various fields to interpret a single subject or problem, in the
classroom sense; in the real-life sense, using your education - all
of it - to help you navigate through your life. I think the “IDS”
label is just a new descriptor for an old concept, but the fact that
it’s catching on means that academic programs (i.e. art) will be
much more receptive to broadening their students’ experience, and it
may soon not be uncommon to find art students taking business
classes (and science classes, and political history, etc. etc.) to
supplement their major.
Art students interested in this sort of thing really should make the
effort to bring it to the attention of your advisors, professors,
and department chairs - you might find that the topic is already on
the table. And if you’re being repressed by an evil or incompetent
administration, keep in mind that good professors often outlast bad
deans!
At the college I attended, interior design was a four- to five-year
program, just like graphic design and other art-based majors. All
the students in t he major were expected to synthesize all their
skills in a final thesis project that required literally hundreds of
hours of work. Drawing classes, color theory, marker rendering, 3D
design, and even figure drawing were required f or the major.
Granted, some designers may make it look easy, but it seemed li ke a
great deal of work to me.
I don’t know much about fashion design, but I suspect that a
background and degree in art would be necessary to begin a career in
that field as well. As for landscaping, it may be an easier and less
expensive field to get into, b ut a certain number of hours in
horticulture classes are required for some certifications, such as
“master gardener.”
It seems that there are increasingly few careers that don’t require a
pricey degree, and it’s ironic that, once you have that degree, you
may use it to enter a field that has little to do with your area of
study. My husband, a professor, often says that an employer sees a
degree as proof that for four or five years, you managed to show up
on time (more or less), accomplish set ta sks, and please twenty or
thirty rather demanding supervisors - your professors - over the
course of your academic career. If you can continue to apply thos e
skills in the workplace, reasoning follows, you’ll be a good
employee. So, in that sense, every degree is a vocational degree.
Just a musing…interesting thread here!
Cheers,
Jessee Smith (who is finally, finally caught up with old Orchid digests after
many travels. Who knew you could get a sunburn in Surrey?) www.silverspotstudio.com
Cincinnati, Ohio
When I started my teaching at George Brown College here in Toronto
some 5 years ago the course was so antiquated I resolved to bring it
into the modern era…the Head-Chair and Fashion Director had the
knowledge and foresight to let me completely change the whole darn
(sp) curriculum…so from a measly 4 students in the first-semester
year, then we had a class of over 22 in three short years…the best
part is that they now “listen” to me and my jewellery/setting ideas.
Many of my past students are now full fledged Craftsperson’s, Retail
owners and some are Artistic-Designers…(M&F).
Deans and Teachers must talk to each other on all aspects of
their curriculum and lessons.
When I have a class I don’t just talk words and be gone! I am their
"mentor" and guide them through almost every aspect of this craft
from marketing, sales, gemmology, repairs, costing, communication,
purchasing…My Head Dean leaves everything to my skills…how many
teachers actually bring gold and diamonds with them to each class? I
show them setting problems and how to correct them while at the
bench…Yes, I do “pass” many and also “fail” a few students. Such is school life…Gerry!