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How Do You Make Ingots? Sterling Silver Specifically

Ok so Ford has more then 1 vid of a pour. One of them shows much clearer that yhere is a canvas , lets call it a mold , a canvas mold emersed in the bucket held mid way, so when you pour the metal it foes not hit the bottom of the bucket, it is held , nestled in , on the wet canvas , looks like a hammock. The warm water is so the hot molten metal is not hitting cold water and getting shocked too fast and forming cracks. Please look for the different vids and watch it a few times, I know there is one vid which is quite detailed in showing what he does, after the pour the water comes to a boil and keeps boiling for a long time while he is rapping on the side of the buckey to releade the hot air bubbles away from the the metal. Let me see if I can find thr video, and post it here.ill have to ask permission for that.

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Thank you for mentioning Hallam’s videos and the details.

One video indicates the water is over 1000 degrees when the metal is poured.

Does ordinary canvas fabric work? …drawn around or wrapped around a frame creating a couple of layers?

Why charcloth? Isn’t charcloth used for igniting?

It would be wet in the bucket and mostly just charcoal

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Liquid water can’t be over 100 degrees at normal atmospheric pressures let alone 1000.

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Regardless of the water temperature, after the metal has been in the boiling water for two minutes, suddenly there is a loud rumble. It sounds like it is going to explode. And then it stops.

There are charcoal chunks floating in the water cast copper video because it was used to cover the melt. What a great idea to have the charcloth in the bottom.

Elliot,. F or C ? Don.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROIDOn Oct 14, 2016 12:18 PM, Elliot Nesterman <> wrote:

October 14

Liquid water can't be over 100 degrees at normal atmospheric pressures let alone 1000.

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there are possible points where the temp of the water is higher then 100centigrade, in science we learn it evaporates at 100C , BUT lets say you have a large stock pot of boiling water , and it continues to boil five gallons worth, so the temp at the top of the pot is 100 where its evaporating, but below where it is continually boiling and there is more energy being fed from the fire I believe in practice it may be able to get much higher in temp till the water is all gone to vapor. theory is another thing to prove or not. but the there has to be enough quantity of water to continually be boiling long periods before evaporation .might want to give it a test.

I had tried a small ingot of silver of half an ounce, and set up a T shirt material folded and stretched 4 times ,submerged in the water , it worked. with some burn marks. I would assume canvas doubled or triple folded would be fine. there are no perfect ways to go but to try and test these things ,each shop and metalsmith will do it differently . safety always first.

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That charcloth was my guess Betty. Someone else said it was canvas but a
few pours like that and you’ll have charcloth.

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Well, C, of course.
Now I have to write some more to get to 20 characters.

Nope. Doesn’t work like that. To get water to rise to temperatures higher than 100c you need to increase the atmospheric pressure so that the vapor pressure of the hot water does not exceed it. That’s how pressure cookers work.

He explains that in one of the videos.
As the molten metal enters the water it is so hot that its radiant heat vaporizes the water before it actually contacts the metal. The metal is surrounded by a pocket of steam, and doesn’t actually touch the canvas, or charcoal, below it. It is levitated above the surface by the layer of steam below it. When the metal has cooled sufficiently that that steam layer no longer exists, the surrounding water comes into direct contact with the metal. That’s when you get that final loud rumbling and violent boiling.

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Re superheated water: even at the bottom of the pot closest to the heat source, an unsealed pot of boiling water in typical studio conditions (ie, 1 ATM: not at North Pole, not atop Everest, not using a pressure cooker) the temp would not rise above 100C provided bubbles are forming, owing both to convection and to vapor formation within water. Even absent immediate bubbling (nucleation), the temp would only go up about 1C before an explosive bubbling would occur. The latter is most common in overly smooth vessels with no scratches to promote bubble formation – or in microwaves, were another set of phenomena is in play and potentially dangerous.

  • Lorraine

I thought probably. Lots of folks in the US don’t think in Celsius. And I don’t unless I am forced to.

I tend to use metric for science stuff. And also at the bench, because I was trained by an Italian master jeweler in a shop owned by Belgians.

The water casting method works very well. I believe it is traditionally used in Japan .
I use it for small amounts of sterling and it produces a much better consistency of metal than a steel ingot mould. The only drawback is the thickness of the resulting ingot…it won’t fit in your rollers as it is too thick.
This is a bonus as it means you have to forge it down before rolling :slight_smile:
If I am in a hurry I often put the ingot into my hydraulic press to get it to fit into the rollers annealing after pressing… this doesn’t seem to produce sheet noticeably inferior to being first forged.

For wire I use delft clay as the mould. For many years I used cuttlefish but this gives an ingot that needs a lot of filing clean, before drawing, to remove the cuttlefish texture otherwise it is full of faults.

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hi Betty
yes and no to the milled products being new metal. if you purchased the milled product from a refiner or a metal re seller then yes the product you buy should be new metal. if how ever (you or someone) were to pour their own old metal ingot and process it to a milled metal like sheet or rod, then that milled product is still old material. one of the reasons why you should always try and purchase from a reputable refiner making sure you are getting the right material of your need.

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