I do not believe in using different solder grades in manufacturing.
Temperature control and joint design is the key. Nothing else is
needed.
We don’t often agree but on this we do. Just hard solder for
all,.The super extra easy maybe for repairs where you don’t the sins
committed by others. And I do have some rouge/oil based stuff buried
in a drawer, damned pain to use but it works and it doesn’t muck up
the pickle. It is rarely used.
"White-out" contain a toxic (poisonous) metal called CADMIUM,
which causes CANCER and other nasty stuff.
What is your basis for this comment, if you have real doccumented
knowledge then please post a link to the data. The white out type
correction fluids that I have read the MSDS for do not contain
cadmimum. The correction fluids are typically white pigment
(titanium dioxide), some form of solvent or in the case of the water
based fluids ethylene glycol and a binder.
There is no cadmium in Whiteout. Here is the Material Safety Data
Sheet for the product. I could find no evidence that there ever was
cadmium in the product.
Wow Leonard! Your multiple soldering gives me something to strive
for. How about a tutorial on temperature control and joint design?
The best source would be DVDs themselves. We discuss different points
of soldering. Without pictorial help, let’s see what can be done:
I think of soldering like filling a glass with water. Only my glass
have holes on the bottom, and I use heat instead of water.
Solder will flow when right temperature is reached. When you heat an
object some temperature is used to raise the object temperature, and
some heat escapes into surroundings. (like water from the holes) If
object gives out more heat then it receives, soldering temperature
is never reached and result is an oxidized solder.
To counter that problem, many use powerful torches, which raise
temperature very rapidly. This creates a problem. There are phases in
solder flow, which goldsmith has to control, but with rapid raise it
happens so fast, they go unnoticed. In a way soldering becomes “do I
get lucky or not”.
The solution is to use the smallest torch capable of doing the job,
and to arrange soldering space with understanding that heat escapes.
A good idea is to have a backboard which would reflect heat back and
soldering on surfaces, which do not drain heat.
Once you have that, never heat solder directly. Allow joint reach
temperature though heat transfer from other parts. Heat slowly to
allow for that transfer. It is what is called “let your flame dance”.
Done correctly you should be able to see solder softening and losing
it’s shape gradually, almost like ice cube melting. When this starts
happening, the flame is brought to the joint, and flow is
accomplished through direct heating.
The key is to keep all of the piece right under flow temperature, and
only joint been soldered is at flow temperature. Another metaphor I
can offer is a paint brush. The smaller the brush, the more detailed
the work can be. But if brush is too small, than the work is never
finished. One must allow for heat to accumulate and not to dissipate.
We talk a lot about torches, but very little about places for
soldering, but they are at least as important as torches, if not
more.
Wow Leonard! Your multiple soldering gives me something to strive
for. How about a tutorial on temperature control and joint design?
No black arts, rocket science nor DVDs involved. For silver solders
the hard has a higher re-melt temp than its initial flow temp. Solder
does not fill gaps and has never been good at this. Practice until
you can make light tight joints. Temp control is just not melting
stuff
Gold solders are much the same although better at filling gaps.Sorta
like the difference between water and mud.
I can tell you this; Next to titanium, cadmium is the most common
white pigment.
Cadmium pigments are in the yellow to red range, no whites that I
know of. Could you be thinking of lead? or zinc?
Cadmium compounds can be very toxic when ingested, but are used as
pigments in high temperature (up to 3000 F) applications. Most
industrial poisoning comes from welding fumes.
Leonid, It is obvious you are a master metalsmith. I acknowledge and
applaud you for the great skill you have developed through study,
perseverance, time and dedication. You are absolutely right that many
little tricks some of us use may not be the best way to our goals
and/or would be unnecessary if we were more skillful and had the
mindset of doing things only the “correct” way.
However…correct can be relative as long as the piece retains it’s
integrity. In my view, if solder remains where it should be and not
where it should not be, all is well, in the end. Although I wish I
had in me a fraction of your knowledge and skill, I never will,
because I am: 1. Too impatient 2. Too focused on the story-images 3.
Feel my time is too short to create the pieces I love to actually use
time learning better skills. Short-sighted, certainly. I’m sure I
could create even more freely if I had trained at all. As it is,
nothing leaves the studio that is compromised and I love LOVE making
these pieces!
All this leading up to…some of the same agents that stop solder
flowing can also protect delicate parts from melting when soldering
to a larger piece. I do it all the time when soldering 24kt bezels to
large silver or 14kt sheet. ( paint a thin line of it on the top most
edge…hit with torch to dry so it wont mix with the flux.) I don’t
have to, but, better safe than sorry. So much better, as a much less
skilled metalsmith than I could be, not to have to repair.
Might as well not bother yourself telling me how many ways I’m
wrong. At this time in my life, I hope I will continue to produce
about the ap. 20 pieces per year I’m capable of now for the next 30
years or more, well into my nineties! If I can’t, then maybe I’ll
take the time to learn what I should have learned 40 years earlier
than this! Or…I’ll teach my ridiculous, but well loved, methods to
someone with younger eyes, hands and back! Til then, I’m feeling very
lucky to have come so far from where I started and still love it.
Cadmium was once a very common ingredient in white-out type
correction fluids.
Unless you have any proof for this I would suggest you quit stating
it till you have something you can back up your assertions with.
While early versions of these correction fluids contained some nasty
solvents (toluene, 111 trichloroethane, or trichloroethane) but no
cadmimum.
years ago I wrote the Papermate Company and told them that jewelers
were using their product as a solder flow preventative. I gave them
a list of every temperature, metal and chemical their product was
coming in contact with, and asked what were the dangers (I am sure
they did not want to get sued). Their research lab got back to me
with the comment that there was no danger from the white material
(usually calcium carbonate (chalk) and or magnesium carbonate (used
for many things, including firebrick, kiln wash for potters, antacids
and Maalox). Cadmium was definitely not included. Cadmium is more
expensive than magnesium carbonate and chalk and so is not likely to
be included in a white out. A tube of watercolor might be another
matter.
Read your labels. The manufacturer is required to give you an msds
if asked. I prefer white out to other solder flow retardents (which
include graphite, rubber melted on-nasty). I find the solvent based
material works better, does not bleed into the flux, and washes off
in water better before pickling.
the Papermate scientists commented that in response to my request
they had run all kinds of tests, and to their surprise the
(then-triclorloethylene) used took longer than they thought to
evaporate, the material skinned off and the evaporation rate slowed
down, to over 7-8 minutes (they had thought it was gone long before
that), therefore if you used the solvent based material you should
wait 10-15 minutes before heating.
So, look at your label and happily use white out if you like it. If
you don’t then use something else.
Depending on the situation, I use one of two methods. If all I need
is quick and dirty, then I use a sharpie to stop flow. I have used
them forever and no nasty mess to foul my pickle. If I need
something with a little more finesse, I suspend powdered graphite or
powdered charcoal (if I need extra help w/ a reduced atmosphere) in
isopropyl alcohol and paint it on like we do yellow ochre. General
makes both powders and it can be found at most art supply stores.
I can tell you this; Next to titanium, cadmium is the most common
white pigment.
check your data on this. I think you’re remembering this wrong.
Cadmium is known for it’s vivid yellows and reds, not white, as a
pigment, and in these uses, the use is drastically declining due to
the dangers of cadmium pigments. A few minutes with Google looking
for any reference to white pigments containing Cadmium found
absolutely no hits at all. I suspect you’re thinking of zinc, which
is widely used in the form of zinc oxide as a white pigment, or the
white lead pigments who’s use in white paints in times past now
causes so much concern with older buildings.
As nearly as I can tell, Whiteout does not contain cadmium
compounds.
That is not to say whiteout is entirely safe as a solder stop. The
solvent based versions of whiteout, on heating, release isocyanate
fumes. (Or at least, that’s what MY memory digs up…) The water
based versions, do not, so if using whiteout as a solder stop, it’s
worth finding the water based versions.
However....correct can be relative as long as the piece retains
it's integrity. In my view, if solder remains where it should be
and not where it should not be, all is well, in the end.
That is true. One can do a lot of things wrong and still wind up with
salable jewellery. Not every mistake means disaster. However, the
more complex piece is, the more likely that incorrect procedures
would lead to project failure.
I can tell you this; Next to titanium, cadmium is the most common
white pigment.
My understanding is that cadmium is commonly used in a range of
pigments yellow, orange, and even black particularly in artist’s
paints. It has never been used in white pigments.
In the past basic lead carbonate was commonly used to produce the
pigment white lead. Both lead and cadmium are accumulating
neurotoxins.
White lead is now rarely found except in old houses and its use is
banned in most countries. Titanium dioxide is now the most commonly
used white pigment.
That is not to say whiteout is entirely safe as a solder stop. The
solvent based versions of whiteout, on heating, release isocyanate
fumes.
I doubt this, while the reactions of burning materials can produce a
variety of toxic substances I would be leery of citing one without
some good references. I also do not think that the combustion of the
water based version is necessarily safer. There are still binders
(polymers of some sort) in the water based material that can break
down when heated into possibly hazardous compounds. The issue between
solvent based and water based is really just the solvent vapors
themselves.
The bottom line in this is you need good ventilation while soldering
no matter what materials you are using as there can be toxic fumes
from the process.
This is the same issue as with the other poster, if you do not have
a reliable source don’t post this kind of thing.
I believe in being able to do multiple solder joints and not use any
anti-solder stuff to prevent solder from flowing. It’s all in the
heat control, how the joints are put together and how you juggle the
multiple solders. I’ve had bangles that had over 140 solder joints,
and the average one of a kind piece like pendants or brooches, often
have 20-50 joints. I love to solder and design my work to be
solder-heavy - any excuse to solder! Can’t remember the last time I
used anything to prevent solder flowing. Yellow ochre is not a
favorite in my studio. I may be a trained silversmith/jeweler, but I
think like an engineer in how I design things.
Joy, with torch in one hand and planishing hammer in other hand.
While I am gratified to learn that White-out brand correction fluid
currently contains no cadmium, let me remind everyone that there are
dozens if not hundreds of similar products on the market, and have
been for several decades, many of them from China and other countries
who have a record of including toxic materials like lead in such
things as paint on children’s toys…
Perhaps it is just a marker of how long I have been in this trade,
that I can remember seeing cadmium on the label of some correction
fluid years ago!
While we are on the subject of cadmium, while it may not be present
in some things, it definitely is present in products one might be
exposed to in the jewelry or metalworking trades, such as some soft
solders often used for assembling items of lead, pewter, and other
metals.
Be smart and remember, “You get what you inspect, not what you
expect.”
