Green Turquoise

I went poking on their web site yesterday and I think that this is
what she has. I think she bought it from a street vender somewhere.
It’s the BRIGHT color that she likes. I personally don’t care that
much if things are “real” but want to know what I am paying for. She
will learn if she stays with it. She has moved on to ordering things
from ebay and Fire Mountain. I hope that she reads the back ground
on the beads she is buying. Again, she is not pretending to make
precious jewelry and is not fabricating anything. After teaching art
to 8th graders for umpteen years, it’s good to see her having fun.

marilyn

While green color for turquoise is not a red flag by itself, I have
just read a brief from GIA about green turquoise, where color is
the result of impregnation with yellow polymer. So caveat emptor ! 

this is one of the reasons I dont bead as much as I used to, while i
loved it, times are hard and alot of things are pricey, i love a good
bargain but am not willing to lose money because of my or the sellers
or anyone elses misrepresentation. This has happened many times to me
on freshwater pearls and the quality.

I have some of that red dyed bamboo coral.

I also have my mother’s old red coral necklace lying around here
somewhere… red frangia coral. The necklace is probably more than
30 years old.

There really is no comparison, the old red coral has a totally
different colour, texture, everything. It’s amazing stuff.

Rita.

I found some of this at

that is close to the color of her beads. It doesn’t seem to be
expensive.

marilyn

I have spent the last 10 winters in Tucson - the first 7 were in an
RV. There are several nice RV parks in Tucson: Western Way RV Park
(where I have always stayed), Rincon, and The Voyager to name a few.
These are all really nice and offer all the bells and whistles. So,
any would be suitable. You need to realize, however, that it is
almost impossible to get an RV space in Tucson in February. If you
reserved right now you might get lucky. The same goes for motel/
hotels. The gem show is a hugh deal for this town and if rooms are
available, they are always overpriced during the “show”. Also, the
Tucson gem show isn’t just a gem show. It is held in different
places all over town and lasts for 2 or more weeks. Fortunately, most
of the larger shows have ample parking. Also, there is free shuttle
service to the shows that don’t offer parking.

To attend the wholesale shows (G&LW, GLDA, etc.), you must provide
your state resale number and usually a business card. It is always a
good idea to preregister for these shows and you can do it on-line.
When the G&LW shows opens the lines for buyers getting registered is
really long. However, when you already have your badge, you go to a
different area and breeze through. Also, it isn’t necessary to
register with all of them. Once you get your wholesale badge you
have access to the other wholesale shows. Another tip, carry a copy
of your state resale certificate and business cards with you as some
vendors ask for them.

Hope this helped a bit. Tucson in the winter is a wonderful
experience.

Judy
http://www.judithkellerdesigns.com

Judith it right. Lodging of any kind is hard to get in Tucson. When
I went a few years ago, I was able to stay with a friend who lives in
Phoenix.

The show is, as Judith points out, all over the city. We went back
an forth from Phoenix to Tucson about 5 times, spent a full day in
Tucson each time, and still barely covered it. It was an amazing
experience. Wear good walking shoes.

Alma

that is close to the color of her beads. It doesn't seem to be
expensive. 

Gaspeite Green MAGNESITE

This seems to be a bit of Jewelry TV style of marketing. Gaspeite is
a mineral in and of itself and very pricey given its scarcity. Using
Gaspeite to describe the color of the stone tends to lead the buyer
into thinking they are buying Gaspeite when they are not. If
Magnesite is truly the stone than it appears to have been stabilized
or waxed. None of the rough magnesite I’ve seen has such deep color.

Rick Copeland
Silversmith and Lapidary Artisan
rockymountainwonders.com

Hi there, this is Canyon Cassidys of the Nevada Cassidys, my family
owns and operates the Stone Mountain Turquoise mine out in Lyon Co.
Nevada.

The colors of turquoise-

For discussion I will use my own material. Stone Mountain turquoise
happens to have a large variety of color… Most of all varieties of
“green turquoise”.

In common place, most people associate the word “turquoise” with the
common color centered somewhere between blue and green. The uncommon
wisdom here is that turquoise usually not this color. From our
research it appears that there are only a handful of mines that
commonly produced the typical shade associated with turquoise in
large amounts. Persian, tibetan and chinese, sleeping beauty and so
on. Even though these turquoise mines also produced amounts of
greener turquoise over the years.

Many of the smaller mines out there produce “only some” of the color
shade associated with turquoise you might find in inks, dies or
colored pencils or pictures of the bahamas etc.

For example, damale has a great deal of green because it is mixed
with variscite to produce a strange creamy green color. The copper
bond in those stones are not like that of turquoise and show shades
of color that do not occur in turquoise. Most of the pure green
turquoise has a hue that is actually brown. Variscite when blown up
on a photo of projector screen will show almost fluorescent shade of
yellow and/or lime green. These colors are created by a chemical
bond that is nearly all copper. Turquoise is always a less dominated
chemical mixture.

Thinking Green - Iron the universal bonder

At Stone Mountain the host rock has a huge amount of iron, which
runs in veins and knobs throughout the deposit. So we find green
turquoise veins following the iron all over the deposit in a very
random spiderweb like pattern. This sort of coloration caused by the
iron can span out over the hillside for a very large distance,
usually encompassing the whole claimed area and going far beyond the
turquoise veins. Iron as it turns out is the “universal bonder”. Iron
can and does pull nearly all minerals into a chemical bond. So any
turquoise deposit that has a good amount of iron is likely to
produce great varieties of color and/or green shades of turquoise.

This fall I went through Berkeley and displayed some turquoise to a
few jewelers in town. One of the jewelers is a gemologist and as
soon as I showed him the stones he immediately went into a dictation
about how iron makes turquoise harder. And that the iron is
responsible for the green color, and that when turquoise has a
little more copper than iron in the bond it comes out on the blue
side of the spectrum.

Summary:

The colors of turquoise are always a reflection of the chemical
reactions that took place in the very spot where the stone was
extracted. One thing we notice at Stone Mountain Mine is that when
following a turquoise vein the color of one vein can change
drastically to a totally different shade in just a few inches then
revert right back to it’s originally discovered shade. This shows us
how the influences of iron are dominant. Where ever the iron is
condensed you are likely to see some green chemical reactions that
took place in the stones found there.

Here is a typical green turquoise stone from Stone Mountain Mine,

http://tinyurl.com/yhh68bc

Cheers
Canyon Cassidy
Lapidary Artist / Miner
Nevada Cassidys

More complexity. When I look at the word MAGNESITE, I think of a
bright light and a banging. Didn’t they use magnesium in early
photography? How does magnesite relate to magnesium?

I’m glad that I don’t want to do stone identification.

marilyn

This thread leads me to this…

A handful of years ago I purchased some green turquoise rough from
Northern Nevada. It was from the Apache Turquoise Mine. It has
lovely black spots and webbing and is untreated. Now the woman that
owned the mine (her husband was murdered there, yet she still worked
it) said that some people insist it to be Variscite, but don’t listen
to them. She said she had it tested. I believe she said she had it
tested at the University of Nevada (not sure). It’s not a yellow
green, but a blue green.

Just last July I saw some rough at a rock dealer at a show. I knew
exactly what it was. There were only three pieces for like $.50
each. Knowing that the Mine owner sold that stuff for over $40 per
pound, I grabbed it. But, before I did I asked him about it. He said
it was Apache Variscite. I said "from the Apache Turquoise Mine?
“Yes”, he said “But it isn’t turquoise.” He then went on to say that
his friend, a supposed “expert” from Seattle told him so and of his
friend told him the sun was square he would believe him.

Now I’ve cut the material from the Apache Mine. I lean on the side
of the owner on the following grounds… It’s harder than
Variscite. I estimate some of the Apache Turquoise to be close to 6.5
Mohs. Definitely 6.

Also I have some untreated rough from somewhere in the Southwest
that is a light greenish blue that goes lightly chartreuse in some
areas after cutting. Can’t remember where it came from. But it’s
cool!

It amazes me how varied arguments are in this industry.

TL Goodwin
Lapidary/Metalsmith

It amazes me how varied arguments are in this industry. 

The reason for so many different opinions about turquoise is that
real turquoise is extremely rare and it must be spotless and perfect
sky blue. Another complication is that even if one finds such a
turquoise, not all of it is suitable for jewellery because of
softness. On top if it some turquoise is unstable ( it looses color
when exposed to air ), so such turquoise is stabilized.

When talking about turquoise as a precious stone, it must be blue
without any discoloration, it must be stable, and it must be hard to
withstand wear. That what is known as precious turquoise. Trade name
is Persian. The rest of the stuff is decorative material which
contains some of the turquoise, but mostly it is interestingly
colored matrix and other phosphates of similar colorations.

The fault lies with some gemological authorities who relaxed
definition of turquoise to accommodate the industry. However, most of
the so called turquoise on the market has the same relationship to
real turquoise, as coal relates to diamond.

Leonid Surpin

Leonid,

As much as I respect your expertise I’m going to have to step out on
a limb and disagree.

On top if it some turquoise is unstable ( it looses color when
exposed to air ), so such turquoise is stabilized. 

When natural turquoise is worn it picks up oils from the skin and
other contaminants (lotions, soaps, etc) and darkens and tends to
turn the stone more green. The harder the stone the less color
change. Stabilizing turquoise is to turn chalk turquoise, which would
otherwise be useless, into something that will take a polish and
won’t change color after being worn.

When talking about turquoise as a precious stone, it must be blue
without any discoloration, it must be stable, and it must be hard
to withstand wear. That what is known as precious turquoise. Trade
name is Persian. 

That is traditionally true but now Persian turquoise is being sold
with matrix at a lesser price than the sky blue. And as far as
Persian being the only precious turquoise I’ll take a piece of Pilot
Mountain with black spider web over piece of Persian sky blue any
day. Of course I can’t afford either but it’s nice to dream.

Also, this is not just a United States market. A lot of turquoise
suppliers I deal with are shipping lots of gem grade southwest US
turquoise to Europe and around the world.

Back in the 1970’s everyone wanted blue turquoise and for Native
American silver and turquoise jewelry the more matrix the better. Now
green turquoise is accepted in the market all the better as long as
it isn’t dyed some radioactive color I’m happy to cut and polish and
set it in my jewelry.

I talked with a guy a couple years ago who was a teenager in the
1970s (like me) and had a summer job sorting rough turquoise at a
mine in Cripple Creek, CO. He was told to keep only the blue and to
toss the green down the hill. I of course asked him if he could
describe the hill and location. Of course that was back in the day
when they used to pave the dirt roads with mine tailings from the
many gold mines in the area. Every time it rained the local
residents would go out and look for turquoise. It was tough to drive
anywhere with all the people in the middle of the road bent over
looking for turquoise.

Rick Copeland
Silversmith and Lapidary Artisan
rockymountainwonders.com

Back in the 1970's everyone wanted blue turquoise and for Native
American silver and turquoise jewelry the more matrix the better. 

I am familiar with the phenomena. In Russia you cannot even sell
turquoise without matrix. If you show perfectly blue turquoise, they
accuse you of selling fake.

Leonid Surpin

The reason for so many different opinions about turquoise is that
real turquoise is extremely rare and it must be spotless and
perfect sky blue. 

I disagree. Turquoise, like many gem materials, comes in more than
one color. In the case of turquoise those colors are hues of blue and
green.

  1. “Handbook of Gem Identification” by R. T. Liddicoat, 12th ed, pg
    210: “Turquoise is a semi-translucent to opaque, intense light blue
    in the finest gem quality; poorer qualities tend toward
    yellowish-green. In some cases, fine blue turquoise tends to assume a
    greenish-blue color when it is worn.”

  2. “Gem Reference Guide” published by GIA, 1995, pg 252: Under
    Appearance it states “Light to medium blue, greenish blue to green;
    often mottled, and may show dark splotches or veins of matrix.”

  3. “Gem Identification Laboratory Manual” published by GIA, 1998, pg
    118: Under Common Colors it states “Blue, greenish blue, bluish
    green, yellowish green,green.”

  4. “Minerology” by John Sinkankas, copyright 1964, pg 425: Under
    Optical properties it states: "Pale green, blue-green, rarely, fine
    blues, commonly shading within same specimen because of variations in
    compactness.

The fact that fine blue color such as produces by the Sleeping Beauty
mine doesn’t mean that other colors aren’t turquoise as well, nor
does it mean they have no place in artistic scheme of a chosen medium
of expression.

Mike DeBurgh, GJG
Henderson, NV

Hi Leonid,

I have a small baggie full of rough turquoise that my late Aunt gave
me. It is that bright sky blue that you mentioned, is soft and easily
cut, and is this solid color all the way through the stones, (from
what I have seen of the few I have tried to cut and polish). When I
tried to cut it, it held up only to an extent, but would break very
easily when pressure was applied to it at the wheels. I don’t
remember where she got it; she gave it to me after one of her and her
husband’s trips across country. I know they were in Mexico and the
lower Western states. My Mom may know where they were when they got
it, she was with my Aunt when she gave it to me, IF I can remember to
ask her and IF she remembers.

Is this possibly the rare type you are talking of? I also wonder, can
I stabilize it to make some of it into pendants and such? It is so
very sky blue and beautiful. The stones are not that big, I would say
BD dollar sized and smaller, but even in the rough, when you clean
off the clay colored dirt from the crevices and such; it is so very
beautiful. Would it be better to simply leave it in its rough form
and set it in its “natural” state? Any opinions would be helpful.

Thanks,
Teresa

Leonid

Where do you get your concept that it must be blue and spotless?

While I agree that any turquoise that has been treated is not
turquoise, I think it indeed becomes a poorly refined Plastic, I
can’t see your definition holding true. Some of the most sought after
stones are spider-webbed. Also, those that have darker blue spots,
are reportedly revered as “ghost turquoise” containing a spirit
trapped inside. Ans some seams are too thin to be cut without matrix
but still should be cut.

Your yard stick seems to be a matter of personal taste, and not one
of scientific base. It’s like saying “New York is the best city in
America”.

Chalk Turquoise is turquoise. It’s just not usable for jewelry
(unless it’s been stabilized and then, in my opinion, it’s still not
usable).

TL Goodwin
Lapidary/Metalsmith
The Pacifik Image

Is this possibly the rare type you are talking of? I also wonder,
can I stabilize it to make some of it into pendants and such? 

The rare one is hard, but color is an important property. There
should be cutters on the forum who do stabilization.

Leonid Surpin

1. "Handbook of Gem Identification" [snip] 
2. "Gem Reference Guide" published by GIA, 1995, pg 252: [snip]
3. "Gem Identification Laboratory Manual" published by GIA, 1998, [snip]
4. "Minerology" by John Sinkankas, copyright 1964, pg 425: [snip]

Yes, I am familiar with GIA definition and others. With all due
respect to the cited authorities, they give political definition of
turquoise, not gemological. I am a bit pressed for time today. I will
post more tomorrow.

Leonid Surpin

I just subscribed to this group. I am a mineralogist and lapidary,
among other things.

Turquoise runs the chemical formula to variscite which is green.
Variscite is not turquise, but it is in a group of similar minerals
by chemical formulation. I don’t have any of my texts handy, so that
is the best I can do in the way of explanation.

But I do agree if it is a “fluorescent” green, it is probably dyed.

Kay Allen

There is a website that is quite extensive with many pictures and
info on various types and locations of turquoise from all over the
world. I have not done business with them and know nothing about
what they sell. They also have means for mineral testing.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.