Gravermaxes for engraving startup

Results attained with power assisted methods are in no way inferior
to those attained by hammer and chisel or hand pushed graver. We're
not choosing between putrid or don't care, and palatable here. Is
it better if the method chosen is more difficult and takes longer
when the result is the same? 

This is a runaway argument.

I said that beginners must learn with traditional gravers. No
argument here. There are valid reasons for using power assists.
Depends on application and etc. If we are talking about result driven
applications, power assisted gravers make sense. If we are interested
in the process of engraving itself, then it is not even close. A
beginner should not care about the result, but should strive to
understand the process. That is all I am saying.

Leonid Surpin

A beginner should not care about the result, but should strive to
understand the process. That is all I am saying. 

Leonid, my friend, you crack me up. From the moment a beginning
engraver first touches graver point to metal, learning the process of
engraving is about nothing but improving the result. In a pursuit
like engraving, it’s the process that really doesn’t matter if a
superior result can be achieved.

As a former engraving shop foreman, you know all too well that the
process of cutting the metal is only one of many skills that must be
mastered to become a competent engraver. The art of design coupled
with a knowledge of how the cutting will be used in the design is far
more important to a satisfactory result than just being able to
muscle a graver through metal. The process of graver sharpening is
also absolutely critical. I don’t see how using modern equipment like
a copier to help with design transfer or a power hone is detrimental
to the creative process. I also don’t see how using air power to help
with the pushing of a graver is any different. All the air does is
help push the graver. That’s it. It doesn’t control the depth of cut
or the width of the flange, it doesn’t guide it, it doesn’t end a
cut. Heck, it doesn’t even have spell check. But it does make the
process faster, more efficient and easier. It also makes learning
easier and much faster. That can only be a good thing.

Yes, it is possible to see the marks created during cutting, but one
must use a microscope to see them and they are far less visible than
in cuts made using traditional hammer and chisel techniques. They are
also far outweighed by improvements in gravers and graver sharpening,
the highly polished cuts possible with today’s steels and sharpening
tools blow the old gravers away, power or not.

The number of craftsmen today doing fine engraving is greater than
at any time in history. The quality of the cutting work of many
hobbyists is visibly superior to that of many professional engravers
from centuries past. This is a direct result of the GraverMeister and
it’s descendants. The technology has improved tremendously in the
last twenty five years from the original GraverMeister. I can see how
you might think air powered gravers are not all they are cracked up
to be if that is the only piece of equipment that you have used. I
wasn’t very impressed with it either. That said, before you denigrate
the entire air powered graver industry, you really should cut a few
lines with a Lindsay. Be warned though, it might just rock your
world.

The art of engraving will not be hurt by technological improvement,
it will only get better. The true art in engraving is the art of
design, and that will never change. Air powered gravers, improved
steel blanks, sharpening tools and techniques have freed up many new
people so they can spend time actually cutting their designs and
working on the true art rather than muddling through an arcane and
sometimes painful process. A quick look at some of the entry level
work of beginners and moderately skilled cutters in the galleries on
the Engraver’s Cafe and the Lindsay forums will convince anyone that
has an open mind of the possibilities opened up with the advent of
air powered engraving equipment. The truth is that almost all of us
that make chips to feed our families use air assisted tools almost
exclusively now. It is only the purists, the ones that don’t need to
make a living by cutting that cling to tools of the past. The
hobbyists and craftsmen that use the old techniques have my deep
respect, for they do it mainly to keep the old skills and traditions
alive, not because the results are superior. Because they aren’t.

Dave Phelps

I have to mention it again, that none of the following applies to
carving, or any other technique, when metal needs to be removed in
bulk. For those application, the use of power-assited gravers is
perfectly reasonable.

Leonid, my friend, you crack me up. From the moment a beginning
engraver first touches graver point to metal, learning the process
of engraving is about nothing but improving the result. In a
pursuit like engraving, it's the process that really doesn't matter
if a superior result can be achieved. 

Without understanding the process, the result cannot be improved!
There is japanese saying “take care of the process, and the process
will take care of the result”

As a former engraving shop foreman, you know all too well that the
process of cutting the metal is only one of many skills that must
be mastered to become a competent engraver. The art of design
coupled with a knowledge of how the cutting will be used in the
design is far more important to a satisfactory result than just
being able to muscle a graver through metal. The process of graver
sharpening is also absolutely critical. I don't see how using
modern equipment like a copier to help with design transfer or a
power hone is detrimental to the creative process. 

Power hone is extremely detrimental in more ways than one. Script
graver has 4 angles which control how graver cuts. Combination of
these 4 angles is unique for every engraver. It takes some time to
prepare a graver for engraving. Done well, a point can last several
days.

If power hone becomes essential, which means that one has to
re-sharpen often, is an indication that art of graver sharpening is
still a mystery. Power hone simply masks the ignorance. Another
problem is power hone wastes too much of a graver. Instead of lasting
weeks, sometimes even months, a graver is ground away in a matter of
days.

I also don't see how using air power to help with the pushing of a
graver is any different. All the air does is help push the graver.
That's it. It doesn't control the depth of cut or the width of the
flange, it doesn't guide it, it doesn't end a cut. 

And here is the biggest problem with power assisted gravers. Graver
is NEVER PUSHED. This is also a good place to mention design
transfer. I have seen explanation of engraving as : transfer design
and then guide the graver alongs the lines. This is how power
assisted engraving goes.

In traditional engraving design is only a rough suggestion. Engraver
interprets the design in accordance with his/her own unique style.
The interpretation is direct outcome of a cutting technique. Good
cutting technique can only come from complete understanding of
cutting process, which is jointed at a hip with the process of
sharpening. A lot of times design is not even transferred. Simple
geometrical suggestion is sufficient.

If I can congeal the difference between traditional engraving and
power-assisted technique it is the difference between fashion
designer and a tailor. Designer creates silhouette using his/her
artistic abilities. Tailor has no such talents, but by using
templates, a tailor can reproduce the required silhouette.

If you just starting in engraving, give yourself a chance at
becoming a fashion designer. If it would not work, you can always
fall back to tailor’s carrier.

Leonid Surpin

A beginner should not care about the result, but should strive to
understand the process. That is all I am saying. 

Leonid, my friend, you crack me up. From the moment a beginning
engraver first touches graver point to metal, learning the process of
engraving is about nothing but improving the result. In a pursuit
like engraving, it’s the process that really doesn’t matter if a
superior result can be achieved.

As a former engraving shop foreman, you know all too well that the
process of cutting the metal is only one of many skills that must be
mastered to become a competent engraver. The art of design coupled
with a knowledge of how the cutting will be used in the design is far
more important to a satisfactory result than just being able to
muscle a graver through metal. The process of graver sharpening is
also absolutely critical. I don’t see how using modern equipment like
a copier to help with design transfer or a power hone is detrimental
to the creative process. I also don’t see how using air power to help
with the pushing of a graver is any different. All the air does is
help push the graver. That’s it. It doesn’t control the depth of cut
or the width of the flange, it doesn’t guide it, it doesn’t end a
cut. Heck, it doesn’t even have spell check. But it does make the
process faster, more efficient and easier. It also makes learning
easier and much faster. That can only be a good thing.

Yes, it is possible to see the marks created during cutting, but one
must use a microscope to see them and they are far less visible than
in cuts made using traditional hammer and chisel techniques. They are
also far outweighed by improvements in gravers and graver sharpening,
the highly polished cuts possible with today’s steels and sharpening
tools blow the old gravers away, power or not.

The number of craftsmen today doing fine engraving is greater than
at any time in history. The quality of the cutting work of many
hobbyists is visibly superior to that of many professional engravers
from centuries past. This is a direct result of the GraverMeister and
it’s descendants. The technology has improved tremendously in the
last twenty five years from the original GraverMeister. I can see how
you might think air powered gravers are not all they are cracked up
to be if that is the only piece of equipment that you have used. I
wasn’t very impressed with it either. That said, before you denigrate
the entire air powered graver industry, you really should cut a few
lines with a Lindsay. Be warned though, it might just rock your
world.

The art of engraving will not be hurt by technological improvement,
it will only get better. The true art in engraving is the art of
design, and that will never change. Air powered gravers, improved
steel blanks, sharpening tools and techniques have freed up many new
people so they can spend time actually cutting their designs and
working on the true art rather than muddling through an arcane and
sometimes painful process. A quick look at some of the entry level
work of beginners and moderately skilled cutters in the galleries on
the Engraver’s Cafe and the Lindsay forums will convince anyone that
has an open mind of the possibilities opened up with the advent of
air powered engraving equipment. The truth is that almost all of us
that make chips to feed our families use air assisted tools almost
exclusively now. It is only the purists, the ones that don’t need to
make a living by cutting that cling to tools of the past. The
hobbyists and craftsmen that use the old techniques have my deep
respect, for they do it mainly to keep the old skills and traditions
alive, not because the results are superior. Because they aren’t.

Dave Phelps

Hi Leonid,

Speaking as someone who learned to engrave in London, years ago, and
can do it by hand, there are times when the power gravers come in
really handy. Especially the new powerhones. Yes, I can sharpen by
hand. Been doing it for years. Doing it well enough to cut celtic
knotwork patterns with 6 braids, where the whole thing was 2mm
across. The power hone took my sharpening to a whole new level. It
has three main advantages: repeatability, accuracy, and strength.
Repeatability and accuracy mean simply that when I sharpen a graver
with a 14 eel, and a 5 left yaw, and come back in a few weeks to
retouch the heel, the 14 /5 I grind today matches the 14 /5 I ground
last week. No rocking, no fiddling around feeling for it, it’s

there. And I can retain that angle as I switch between polishing
wheels. So if I want a bright cut, I can polish my heel facets to a
precise, accurate angle, while getting them to a mirror polish. The
old 4/0 emery paper trick would subtly round the facets, especially
the points. A flat ceramic lap with diamond compound? Dead flat, and
mirror bright.

The biggest advantage to them though is that there are modern
carbide and cobalt alloy engraving tools that you simply can’t
sharpen in any realistic fashion by hand. You really do need the
powered diamond

laps to do anything with them. They’ll hold a sharper edge, far
longer than the old Carbon or HSS steel gravers would, which lets
you spend more time cutting, and less time sharpening. Isn’t cutting
the point of the exercise?

Regards,
Brian.

Sorry Leonid, but the assumptions you have made on power hone
doesn’t make sense. Using a power hone would then be as detrimental
as using a mechanical pencil sharpener…

It’s all about knowing your equipment. If you don’t pay attention
and stop in time you will waste material. Graver or pencil…

No matter what cutting tool you use, gravers, drill bits, knives or
chisels, the cutting edge has a certain defined angle/angles.
Nothing mysterious about that. Depending on material beeing cut and
personal preferences these angles vary.

With a power hone and a fixture you get nice, FLAT/polished surfaces
everytime in the angle you prefer. You can combine your angles
anyway you desire, 1 angle, 4 angles or more if you like…)Why
would that be a bad thing ?

If one doesn’t end up with a graver that cuts well, or you waste
material when preparing the graver simply tells us that one needs to
practice some more until the perfect result is achieved.

David, I quite agree and couldn’t have said it better myself ! this
is now a bookmarked article in my personal Orchid Archives -
brilliant arguments in defense of gravermaxes and the like which by
any stretch of the imagination yield superior results over
traditional hand gravers particularly if one has little hand strength
or is a beginner learning to engrave! rer

Without understanding the process, the result cannot be improved!
There is japanese saying "take care of the process, and the
process will take care of the result" 

In my experience with engraving, an attempt at improvement must come
before any further understanding of the process can begin. A failure
to see a desired improvement causes introspection, and consequently,
a further study of the process. An engraver at any stage of learning
that isn’t concerned with improving from one cut to the next will
never understand any more of the many processes involved than they
currently do. If there is no perception of the need for improvement,
there’s no need of further understanding. The need to improve the
result will precede and fuel the pursuit of further understanding for
the rest of an engraver’s life if they let it. It can actually be a
pretty vicious cycle. I only know this to be true because it
describes my career in engraving in a nutshell.

Power hone is extremely detrimental in more ways than one. Script
graver has 4 angles which control how graver cuts. Combination of
these 4 angles is unique for every engraver. 

I don’t use one single set of angles for my work, no engraver I know
does. I use about a half dozen different basic geometries. For a
couple of those, I have two or three with subtle variations in either
face or heel, and many of those I have in several different types of
steel. Each graver has a specific function, and it is prepared for
the one job it is expected to do in the metal in which it is expected
to do it. This dozen or so script gravers doesn’t include stipplers,
matte punches, flats, liners, onglettes or rounds, nor does it
include gravers used for stone setting and general goldsmithing, all
of which I have many, each one requiring at least some grinding and
polishing. The power hone cuts the shaping time to a fraction. I do
final polish with a jig and a ruby stone, although a ceramic wheel
charged with 50,000 grit diamond works pretty well too.

If power hone becomes essential, which means that one has to
re-sharpen often, is an indication that art of graver sharpening
is still a mystery. Power hone simply masks the ignorance. Another
problem is power hone wastes too much of a graver. Instead of
lasting weeks, sometimes even months, a graver is ground away in a
matter of days. 

I don’t think anyone said a powerhone is essential, it is merely a
tool that speeds a laborious and tedious process. If your experience
with a power hone is that you can only make a graver last for a few
days or weeks, it might be your own ignorance in its proper usage
that may be the problem. My gravers last for years.

And here is the biggest problem with power assisted gravers.
Graver is NEVER PUSHED. 

How then is a graver moved through the metal? By sheer force of
thought? Explain if you will please, exactly how and what a talented
engraver does, if she or he doesn’t push a graver to make it cut
metal.

This is also a good place to mention design transfer. I have seen
explanation of engraving as : transfer design and then guide the
graver alongs the lines. This is how power assisted engraving goes. 

If you are referring to transferring original artwork to metal and
then cutting along the lines, yup. That’s pretty much how engraving
has been done for centuries. I think what you were really inferring
was something quite different, though.

Transferring the work of other engravers to metal and cutting it is
a great exercise, but no self-respecting engraver would ever show
such work in public. And no self-respecting person in any field would
ever claim someone else’s original designs as their own. I don’t
expect we’ll ever see one, but I think you owe an apology to many
very talented engravers. That’s a pretty cheap shot, even for you
Leonid.

In traditional engraving design is only a rough suggestion.
Engraver interprets the design in accordance with his/her own
unique style. The interpretation is direct outcome of a cutting
technique. Good cutting technique can only come from complete
understanding of cutting process, which is jointed at a hip with
the process of sharpening. A lot of times design is not even
transferred. Simple geometrical suggestion is sufficient. 

Have you ever studied in detail the work of such engravers as L. D.
Nimschke, or Arnold Griebel, Lynton McKenzie or E. C. Prudhomme? I
think the answer is obvious. If you had, you would already know how
utterly preposterous the above paragraph is, and you wouldn’t have
made such a foolish statement.

The most difficult tool to master in engraving is the pencil. A good
engraver will spend at least as much time in design as in actual
cutting, usually substantially more, and a heck of a lot more time
learning it. If you are cutting on rough suggestion of design, you
aren’t engraving, you’re cutting random lines that roughly resemble
engraving, regardless of how sharp your graver is. Nothing of any
value in engraving is done roughly or with simple geometric
suggestion. But if that’s how you do it, your skill will show in your
work.

Speaking of your skill showing in your work Leonid, I would very
much like to see some of your engraving. A little bit of my jewelry
engraving is on my website. I haven’t seen a single engraved line on
yours, either the new one or the previous one. I am nowhere near the
league of really fine engravers, but I do manage to make a few
hundred dollars a week by engraving. Please demonstrate your skill
and technique so we can see for ourselves the difference between a
fashion designer and a tailor’s carrier. Make a tutorial video of how
you do your engravings. I would really like to see how you coax a
graver through metal without pushing it. I would also really like to
see how you make good design on the fly with nothing but simple
geometric suggestion.

Dave Phelps
precisionplatinumjewelry.com

Without addressing any specific points, I simply want to indicate the
framework of the argument.

I will never presume to tell anybody who knows how it’s done, to do
it differently. My comments are addressed to beginners and only to
beginners. For someone who trained traditionally, a power hone and
any other time saving device is just that. It saves time and make
things go smoothly.

In case of a student, it is a different story. Timesavers rob
students of very valuable experience. The art of controlling graver
begins with ability to control the same graver while sharpening it.
Let me put it in another way. Let’s use sport as an example. In
order to run fast, a sprinter must have great abdominals. Sprinter
can develop abdominals simply by running a lot. But another way
would be to combine the training with specialized abdominal
exercises.

Sharpening a graver is an exercise in controlling a graver. Besides
getting graver sharp, it teaches student to hold it steady and with
predictable results. Power hone gets gravers sharp, but it does not
teach anything. Let’s say it takes 1000 hours of exercises to learn
graver control. One can do it only by engraving all 1000 hours. But
if one spends 100 hours sharpening, the time of learning is cut
substantially. 1 hour of sharpening teaches as much about graver
control as 3 hours of engraving. And I can extend this analogy to
other areas.

To be good in working with hands simply means that your hands must
do what you mind wants them to. Making and maintaining tools is an
exceptionally important link in establishing this chain of command
between the hands and the mind.

Leonid Surpin

How then is a graver moved through the metal? By sheer force of
thought? Explain if you will please, exactly how and what a
talented engraver does, if she or he doesn't push a graver to make
it cut metal. 

I think I re-read this paragraph at least 20 times, before I decided
to answer it.

David, you wrote a long post with a lot of comments, but my friend,
if you can ask such a question, I have to think that while we using
the same terminology, we are talking about different things.

To answer it plainly, metal moves and graver stays, which is quite
the opposite with power assisted gravers. Given that large of a
disparity in familiarity with the subject, I see no point in
discussing fine points of design transfer and etc.

Leonid Surpin

Brian, I totally agree with you. The dual angle sharpening fixture
is the coolest thing since sliced bread. One can spend lots of time
sharpening (well, we do even with the fixture) but we get to spend
more time engraving.

Happy solstice all you pagans!
KPK

Leonid your point is well taken. That’s one reason we have those
beautiful engraving vices that revolve (move) so smoothly. We move the
engraving vice and hold the graver steady. The metal moves into the
graver. kpk

To answer it plainly, metal moves and graver stays, which is quite
the opposite with power assisted gravers. 

Not necessarily, Leonid. I find with my Lindsay handpiece that the
best control is achieved also when the metal is moved into the
graver, even with the power assist. The hand holding the graver
“steers” the direction and depth of the cut, just as with hand pushed
gravers. The difference is the amount of force needed both to move
the engraving block into the graver, and the amount of strength it
takes to control the graver itself. Other people may have different
techniques, but for me, this seems to be true…

Peter Rowe

If power hone becomes essential, which means that one has to
re-sharpen often, is an indication that art of graver sharpening is
still a mystery. Power hone simply masks the ignorance. Another
problem is power hone wastes too much of a graver. Instead of
lasting weeks, sometimes even months, a graver is ground away in a
matter of days. 

Huh? What? I started engraving when I was 14 years old, and I’m not
ashamed to say that was 38 years ago. I know, a mere youngster by
some estimations. I still have some favorite gravers from those days,
whose wooden handles are sticky with my hand oils and sweat. I’ve
used a power hone and sharpening fixtures since when they became
available. Power hones in no way mean one has to resharpen more
often. How does that follow? I find my gravers last longer because I
get what I expect every time I sharpen. I also find that when I want
to touch up on 4/0 or ruby, I can, and do not lose my geometry. I can
always get my exact geometry back with a power hone and sharpening
fixture. Sharpening is no mystery. It’s geometry. Period. I can
sharpen gravers without a power hone and fixtures; I do from time to
time. It gives me pleasure to do so. I also take long hikes in the
mountains where I live because it gives me pleasure to do so. But
when I need to get somewhere quickly, I use a different means of
transport.

I realize we have strayed from the original thread. But I guess
that’s part of the fun.

Kind regards to all,
Hans Rohner

Hi Leonid,

Have you ever used one of the modern powered gravers? (Gravermach or
the Lindsay palm control?) The old gravermax doesn’t count. The
differences are akin to comparing a model T to a Porsche 911.

As far as how the work feels on the vise, it’s pretty much identical
to an unpowered graver. You roll in with your left hand on the vise,
and the metal just goes away. The powered graver doesn’t pound ahead,
or jackhammer its way forward, if you use it right, it just chops the
metal away as you roll into it. Exactly like an unpowered graver.
Only easier.

Regards,
Brian.

Have you ever used one of the modern powered gravers? (Gravermach
or the Lindsay palm control?) The old gravermax doesn't count. The
differences are akin to comparing a model T to a Porsche 911. 

No I haven’t. I simply do not feel that I need it. If it will become
necessary, I will give it a try. I am not against power assisted
gravers in principal. I am against them for the beginners. I think
that one of the reasons why number of engravers is in decline, is
high price of entry with no guaranty of success. One can start
engraving, even at todays prices for under 100 dollars, if one
chooses traditional approach. Compare it to the cost of setup with
power assisted graver, power hone, and the rest of the stuff. What
does the fancy setup gets you? nothing, except impaired skill set.

Some time ago someone posted a link to engraving videos. When I
watched it, I was surprised that a pro would cut clockwise curves
exactly the same as counter-clockwise, but than I realized that I am
watching power-assisted engraving.

Curve differentiation discipline imposed by traditional technique
affects everything, and I realize that power-assisted graver can be
used as traditional one. However, beginners would not follow the
discipline unless they must, and they do not have to with
power-assisted gravers. Without learning proper curve cutting,
further progress becomes impossible.

Leonid Surpin

Any one who has reads my posts knows that I have no aversion to
powered tools.

I am looking for a powered jeweller (me) at present and another wife
/ lady friend is not a good option right now. Any ideas ???

jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

First, I would like to apologize to Leonid and everyone else still
following this thread for the tone of my last post. I was out of line
and I’m sorry. That said, I think beginners must see a more modern
approach to learning engraving as well as Leonid’s more traditional
view, so I’ll continue to respond when I see things in a different
light.

I think that one of the reasons why number of engravers is in
decline, is high price of entry with no guaranty of success. One
can start engraving, even at todays prices for under 100 dollars,
if one chooses traditional approach. 

You are of course right about not having to spend thousands of
dollars to start. $100 can most definitely get someone started. That
method is not without reward, but it’s the hard way. The number of
beginning and mid-level engravers is at the highest number it has
ever been, the resurgence of interest in the art of engraving in the
last decade is nothing less than astounding. That is a direct result
of the proliferation of quality powered tools and the ease of entry
into an incredibly complex artistic endeavor. It is also a direct
result of the number of very talented craftsmen willing to freely
share their knowledge, along with the Internet allowing much more
personal contact between beginners and the best of the best. The
engraving community is one of the most helpful, optimistic and
creatively dedicated group of people I have ever known. Ask, and you
shall receive.

Like you Leonid, I learned engraving the old fashioned, traditional
way. I watched in fascination as my Dad engraved, and asked him to
teach me. He gave me a spiral bound notebook and a box of pencils and
drew a beauty stem, a “C” and an “O”. He showed me how almost all
script letters are composed of these three lines to one degree or
another. He showed me how to establish the correct angle for script,
then he told me to fill the notebook with those three lines, one type
of line per page. When I was finished he would teach me to cut. I
didn’t touch a graver for almost a year.

He told me these three things at least a hundred times each, even
had me lay them out over and over again in script and many other
forms of lettering in full preparation for engraving - “The pencil is
the hardest tool to master.” “If you can’t draw it, you can’t cut
it.” And “The art of engraving is nothing without the art of design.”
He was right on all three. The nuances of cutting make up only a very
small percentage of the skills required to do fine engraving.

Truthfully and contrary to popular belief, cutting is the least
difficult skill to master of all of the engraving skills, even with
push tools. Making shiny lines is easy. Making art with shiny lines
is something else entirely. It is attention to detail in the other
skills, specifically the art of design that sets the accomplished
engraver apart from someone that can cut shiny lines.

However, beginners would not follow the discipline unless they
must, and they do not have to with power-assisted gravers. 

I respectfully disagree. Why would beginners not follow the rules of
the discipline using air gravers? They don’t have to follow any rules
of discipline with push gravers either if they don’t want to. That’s
why it’s called a “discipline”. If one wants to get past a
rudimentary result in any artistic field, but especially engraving,
one must be disciplined, regardless of their choice of tools.

I have likened learning to engrave to learning how to play chess.
Learning how the pieces move is easy, learning strategy on the other
hand is something very different. Learning the moves of engraving is
much easier with a power assist. I learned with push gravers and used
them for decades, and have taught people to engrave with both
traditional push gravers and power tools. There is no question about
it, learning with powered tools is much easier, just as learning how
to drive in a car with power steering and an automatic transmission
is easier than learning in a car without them, and for much the same
reason. (Try parallel parking a '63 Rambler wagon sometime. On a
hill. Mom could do it and never lose the ash on her cigarette. Man,
that woman could drive)

The rules of the road are all the same, but the work required to
make the car or graver do what you want are very different. The
pressure required of the palm of the hand, whatever we decide to call
it, is a lot more than that required to make the subtle moves
required to make well shaped lines. A lot of force must be applied
just to get through the metal and for the beginner there is little
muscle left for learning fine motor skills, and it is difficult to
separate the two. But if you add power to reduce the palm pressure,
the fine motor skills become much easier to learn and understand.
Transitioning back to push gravers from power assist might be a bit
more difficult, but most of us won’t have to worry about that until a
couple of years after the comet hits.

I really do appreciate and respect your adherence to traditional
practices Leonid, but consider trying some of the new technology.
Don’t be like John Henry and kill yourself proving that the steam
hammer can’t beat a human being. If you don’t want to do that, at
least don’t go so far as you sometimes do, saying that anybody that
uses a steam hammer isn’t really driving a spike. Even John Henry
never went that far. Some of this new stuff isn’t a sell-out or
cheating, it makes what we do easier, faster, a lot more fun and
produces a better end result. Those are all good things, aren’t they?

Dave Phelps

I respectfully disagree. Why would beginners not follow the rules
of the discipline using air gravers? They don't have to follow any
rules of discipline with push gravers either if they don't want to. 

I can only express an opinion based on my own experience and
observations.

I was told very many things which went into one ear and exited
though another within one second. It is only when, after working
several days and having to scrap things, I was recalling what I was
told before. That is just the way people are. There are maybe some
rare individuals, which listen carefully and follow all the
directions, but it is not me, and I have never met one.

Traditional engraving can be very painful experience if correct
methods are not followed, and I have scars on my left hand to prove
it. But there are no better and faster way to learn than turning your
left hand into pin cushion. I hope that this expos’e shall not deter
anybody from trying.

Leonid Surpin

The engraving community is one of the most helpful, optimistic and
creatively dedicated group of people I have ever known. Ask, and
you shall receive. 

Good damage control, David. The entire notion that “an engraver” is
some narrow, certain thing, and ~must~ take some certain path and
stay in “the box” is simply bizarre. And I write on this thread as a
good example of that. Generally speaking, an engraver who sets up
business to the world at large is going to get something like 80%
calligraphy work. Engraving inscriptions on all sorts of things. I
personally have not the slightestinterest in doing that, nor am I any
good at it. I use engraving as I please, and I do it in the way I
like. Very often I WILL push the tool - deal with it. Waxwork,
setting, carving - all of the things gravers are good for. They are
most useful tools. Meaning that I use engraving, and enjoy engraving,
and I’m OK at it, but I don’t call myself “an engraver” because I’m
not, really. Just where I want to be…

This is 2010 - if you start with a sharp tool (or a pencil) and a
bottle cap or a nickel, you likely will become a more complete
craftsman than some - if you get good at it, that is. I see no
purpose in insisting that everybody has to start with a horse and
buggy to learn how to drive, as David addresses, too. You want to
engrave like that, engrave like that - you want to use modern tools,
use modern tools. It’s your business, your craft, and your life. It
will be what it is, in the end,