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Gallery misunderstanding?


#21
Just curious..... Why the need to tell the jeweler you are a
designer 

I told her when she complimented my ring, which I made. I didn’t
need to tell her, and I guess it would have been a lot easier if I
didn’t. But I did.

and why the need for photos of the piece if you have no interest in
wanting to copy it? 

I didn’t need the pictures, I didn’t even ask for them, they were
offered.

Seems to me the Jeweler is trying to protect themselves and their
sources. Isn't that what you would like a jeweler representing your
work to do? 

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my original post… I completely
understand the need to protect her artists. I really really really
get that. I would want someone to do the same for me? of course I
would. Why wouldn’t I?

I think if she would have said, “I don’t feel comfortable giving you
pictures of another jeweler’s work because you are a designer, and
no disrespect to you, but I feel the need to protect the designs of
my designers” I would have been fine with that because it would have
been out in the open. It was the manner in which it was handled that
irked me at the time. I think she was trying to be polite and non-
confrontational, she did what she felt was best at the time and I
overreacted a bit.

After letting a few days pass and reading all your great posts, I’m
over it. I gave my husband the info on the jewelry and we’ll see if
it shows up all wrapped up nice with a bow.

-amery


#22

Amery,

I think your gut feelings on this subject are right on. I often go
into galleries and don’t tell them I make and design jewelry, but
when I do mention it, it is as though I have the plague or something.

I think as craftspeople we feel entitled to look at others work and
judge it in our own minds. That is what allows us to grow.

I have only purchased two pieces in the past 30 years and they were
of work that I felt I could not or would not produce. I also
purchased 1 piece from a master silversmith. My husband feel as
though he really lucked out when he married me, because I make my own
jewelry, but I would really love to have him buy me something that I
can’t make. oh well.

Gallery owners should not be afraid of us, afterall we might just
buy something and then they would profit. Oh well, their loss.

Jennifer Friedman
Ventura, CA


#23

To all women jewelers out there: Don’t let your husbands
(significant others) get away with the excuse that you can make your
jewelry, therefor they don’t have to buy you any. Don’t let 'em get
away with it! Mine keeps trying that excuse and I have to knock him
up-side the head with a lot of eye-rolling. Amery, if that doesn’t
show up with a huge bow, no nookie for him! ggl:ggl:ggl

V.


#24

The follow up…

First I want to say, not to be a pain in the a**, but, if she was
really worried about me coping a design why would she even sell it to
me? It would be much easier for me to copy if I had the original. Is
that saying it’s okay for me to copy it if I buy it? Or that her
artist protection stops at a sale? Not that I would ever do that, I
wouldn’t. But if she was worried what I would do with a picture,
wouldn’t she be more worried what I would do with the actual piece?
As an artist, if I thought someone was going to rip me off, I would
be much more worried to give someone an actual piece over a photo.
But that’s just me.

Side note: I actually knew (past tense, please) a woman who used to
go into high end stores and purchase designer jewelry, take it home,
disassemble it, send it to her caster and make reproductions of it
and sell them. Now, you think that’s bad, here’s the real
kicker…This woman would then reassemble the piece and return it
to the store!!! I used to do her beading, way back when, way before
I started wax carving. When I caught on to what she was doing I was
stunned. Didn’t she know what she was doing was wrong? She didn’t
care. Whether or not she knew it was wrong didn’t matter to her. She
really didn’t care. She was out to make a buck and make it the quick
and easy way. Yikes!!! Needless to say, the relationship ended
shortly after that incident!

So I got my ring!!! I love love it. My husband was soooo thrilled to
be able to buy me a piece of jewelry that he jumped at the chance. He
was so cute and happy about it. I love it and wore it last night on
my birthday.

Funny story, one of the sales people in the store was kinda rude to
him when he went to purchase it. She made him come back because they
were closed preparing for a show even though he had called in
advance and they told him they’d be open at 1:00. When he arrived at
1:00 she told him to come back at 2:00. He explained that he was on
his lunch break, and couldn’t come back at 2:00. She got flustered,
brought the tray to jewelry to the door so he could pick out what he
wanted and told him she’d call him to make arrangements to pick it up
later. All this was done at the front door. They were not doing an
instillation or anything, and there weren’t workers in the store. Why
she couldn’t run the credit card through, who knows? So, the owner
called him later, apologized for the confusion and offered to drop
the ring off to him at his work (local) so he didn’t have to make
another run back. So, she made good.

What a weird chain of events!

But, I have my ring and I love it. :slight_smile:

Amery
Amery Carriere Designs
Romantic Jewelry with an Edge
www.amerycarriere.com


#25
I think as craftspeople we feel entitled to look at others work
and judge it in our own minds. That is what allows us to grow. 

First off, being a craftsperson in no way entitles you anything, let
alone the right to search out others work to judge it in order to
guage your own growth, especially if you take up a gallery owners
time with your ‘vision quest’.

Obviously, if you have only purchased 2 pieces in the past 30 years,
you must be visiting the galleries for something other than the
desire to purchase jewelry, correct? If it is not for the purpose of
finding a style or technique to ‘copy’ or perhaps ‘enhance’ in one
way or another, then what is it? You state the reason that you did
buy the pieces you bought was because you could not or would not be
able to reproduce them. How many pieces have you seen at galleries
that you could and would, and indeed, did, reproduce? You don’t seem
to be a good candidate for becoming a profitable customer for any
gallery, like most designers, so the gallery owner certainly doesn’t
have much to lose by treating you as “another designer looking to
pick up ideas and waste my time”.

Sorry, but I spent way to much time with my family at craft shows,
where 90% of the ‘customers’ thought of themselves as ‘crafters’ and
’designers’ and where just looking to steal someone else’s ideas and
make them themselves to save money. I really don’t see anything
different here. It is a rare designer indeed who feels the need to
financially support other designers when the work they produce could
be ‘cribbed’ from a picture, sketch, or memory.

Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers


#26

re-read your own response. What kind of a loss is it to the gallery
owner who gets two sales in 30 years? Guess I can’t see the loss…
even overpriced… it’s tough to make a living that way…

Sali


#27

Craig,

Telling someone your feelings even if it seems like a criticism is 
just telling someone your feelings 

I think this is a valuable discussion. Telling someone how you feel
does not necessarily mean that you tell them what you think they did
wrong.

This particularly and spectacularly does not work in any
conversation between my wife and I. In Amery’s situation, if she says
"I was insulted by the way you treated me" will have a different
outcome than if she says " It felt like you were treating me
different when I told you I was a jeweler and perhaps you thought I
was trying to get to copy a design, and that felt bad to
me. I would like to check to see if my perception was accurate." In
my experience, this can create a discussion and clear up confusion.

Talking about feelings is about saying how you felt, not what you
think the other person did, not accusing the other person. When
someone says something that we feel hurt by, we get triggered into
irrational feelings and thoughts.

Telling the other person what you think they were doing to you is
coming from a victim position and the possibility of defensiveness
is much greater. Stating that you felt a change of attitude allows
the other person to respond from their perspective of what happened.
It is not a criticism, you are asking for a reality check.

This is very subtle in one way. In another way it is a change of
thinking about how to relate effectively with others. You have to be
aware and to be able to take responsibility for your feeling, that
you are generating the feeling from your perception. Perception and
reality are not the same. We are talking about how you feel, not how
the other person made you feel. Other people do not create your
feelings. No one can force you to be sad or happy. You have to make
a choice to allow another person to have the power to control or
change your feelings.

If another person says something that makes you feel bad about
yourself, you have to believe something about what they are saying
is true.

For me, having hurt feelings is really easy, knowing why I reacted
the way I did has taken a lifetime of examination to understand. I
must admit to a lot of misunderstanding of others intentions,
although there have been a lot of people whose intentions and
behavior was diametrically opposed.

Rarely does a piece of uncooperative jewelry cause me the pain of a
few ill thought words of criticism or blame from another human
being.

Richard Hart


#28

Hi Kim,

I got the impression that the gallery owner in question didn’t think
a customer was going to visit Ms. Art Jeweler’s website and find a
better price, but that she would go elsewhere (eBay?) and find a
better price. That’s why it seemed a little paranoid to me.

But, thinking about it now, I’ve come up with an alternate scenario.
Each gallery can only carry a small selection of any one artist’s
line. Suppose I’m on vacation and I stroll into Gallery X, where I
fall in love with Ms. Art Jeweler’s work. I try on all the earrings,
but balk at the prices. I then go to the internet cafe (which, in
Mendocino, means walking about 100 yards) and check out her web site,
or the web sites of her other galleries, looking for something less
expensive, or maybe even something on sale.

Let’s say the least expensive earrings in Gallery X were over $1000
(a safe assumption). On Ms. Jeweler’s site, however, I find a pretty
cool pair of 18k studs for $450 (I just did this, using, as an
example, a particular artist who is actually represented in a local
gallery). So, instead of “sleeping on” the $1000 earrings–in my
ocean view B&B–I decide to buy the “cheap” studs. The gallery owner
has definitely lost a potential sale.

I know this scenario wouldn’t necessarily be prevented by
"unlabeling"–especially because the galleries in questions do
reveal the artists’ names if asked. But it’s a little less paranoid
than the motivation I was originally assuming. And, to my mind, it’s
an interesting conundrum.

Lisa Orlando
Albion, CA, US


#29

Hi Lisa:

Let's say the least expensive earrings in Gallery X were over
$1000 (a safe assumption). On Ms. Jeweler's site, however, I find a
pretty cool pair of 18k studs for $450 (I just did this, using, as
an example, a particular artist who is actually represented in a
local gallery). 

I completely missed this possibility and, you’re absolutely right,
what a conundrum. It leads me to a question I have been wondering
about a bit lately. I noticed that on many artists’ websites the
prices on the work are missing. Is it possible that this is a
requirement of the galleries? The trend seems to be…the artist
gets and maintains a small site. The work grows, the following grows,
the number of pieces featured on the site grows and then,
mysteriously, the prices all disappear. The shopper is still left
with an email address, so I suppose he/she could still shop directly
from the artist, but it’s a bit unlikely.Is it that, when someone
reaches a certain level of sales, he/she drops the e-commerce and
goes all wholesale or is the gallery saying “if you would like us to
carry your work, the prices have to be removed to prevent
competition between yourself and the gallery that carries your work?”

Thanks
Kim

ps I heard of at least one fine artist a few years ago who had to
(according to contract) give the gallery 50% no matter where, when,
how the sale occured


#30

Richard,

Thank you for your last post about feelings. I agree with you. It’s
taken me a while to know myself and to know why I react the way I
do.

It’s also taken me a while to learn how to express my feelings
without blaming the other person, I agree it gets you nowhere but
into an argument.

-Amery
Amery Carriere Designs
www.amerycarriere.com


#31
Let's say the least expensive earrings in Gallery X were over $1000
(a safe assumption). On Ms. Jeweler's site, however, I find a
pretty cool pair of 18k studs for $450 (I just did this, using, as
an example, a particular artist who is actually represented in a
local gallery). So, instead of "sleeping on" the $1000 earrings--in
my ocean view B&B--I decide to buy the "cheap" studs. The gallery
owner has definitely lost a potential sale. 

The problem I see with this scenero is that Ms. Art Jeweler should
not be underselling her galleries on her web site. If (and that’s a
big if, because I have been told by a few of my stores that they
don’t want me selling off my web site) If she is selling directly to
the public then she will need to make sure her prices are the same
or higher than the galleries. That’s a great way to lose an account!

amery

Amery Carriere Designs
Romantic Jewelry with an Edge
www.amerycarriere.com


#32

Lee,

Are you saying that we’ve given up our rights to walk into a jewelry
store when we made our first piece of jewelry? That the only reason
we’d go in would be to rip off someone else?

Amery Carriere Designs
www.amerycarriere.com


#33

Hi

Sorry, but I spent way to much time with my family at craft shows,
where 90% of the 'customers' thought of themselves as 'crafters'
and 'designers' and where just looking to steal someone else's
ideas and make them themselves to save money. 

I go to many craft shows…not as many as I used to and not for the
purpose of copying anything. The only thing I wanted to add was that
I have never been treated with anything but kindness and respect from
about 98% of the people I talked to. I don’t know if it’s my “honest
face” or that I have a knack for picking the right ones. I am
forthright and don’t try to hide anything. They usually ask because
instead of saying something like “that’s pretty” I’ll say “I love
Ocean Jasper, is that reticulation?” Then we kind of talk about this
and that, different techniques…plans, school, shows what-not. I
have learned many things from very friendly people. I have talked to
Amy Leiner, Amy Kahn Russell, Stuart Golder, Joan Dulla, Marya
Dabrowski, Michelle Krespi, and many others. If they ever had a
problem with me, they never let on. I like to go to shows. I like to
look at beautiful work. The fact that I hope to make beautiful work
won’t change that and I don’t feel any reason to follow any kind of
"keep out" policy. Today, the people I talked to wouldn’t know Kim
Starbard from Adam, I’m not actively trying to recruit mentors or
life-long friends. I just never have seen any reason to hide who I
am.

Kim


#34

I am sorry I didn’t mean to make ya’ll angry with me regarding
visits to galleries. But, I do feel as though you misunderstood me. I
do not copy others designs, but I do visit galleries to see what is
new and different that other designers are making. I do not view this
as any different than reviewing Jewelry design magazines or even
looking at what is currently being sold in department stores and in
their flyers.

Jennifer Friedman


#35
people come in, try things on, then look up the designer's name on
the internet and try to get a better price. 

This practice of ‘asking for the name’ happens all the time, not
just with jewelry, but with ceramics, paintings, sculpture, glass,
fiber art, etc… happens every day. This may be the cause of “out
of business” galleries accross the country.

Unfortunately, many artists are undercutting their own galleries by
offering lower priced or sale items on the internet. Why should a
client buy from the gallery when they can find what they want for
elsewhere???


#36

Amery, you have made way too big a deal out of this! Try to get over
it and go ahead on! You will survive!


#37

Is the Gallery missing the point…

When you squeeze an orange what do you get?

Amery know yourself and remember people are reacting to who they are
b/c that is all anyone can be. So believe in your reality while
letting others to have thier own. She is an orange and all you will
get is orange juice… I like the recommendations everyone gave
about getting the jewelry. We know that was your intent, stop the
hamster cage of thoughts of being a bad person, and go get it
girl!!! If you find yourself in this train of thought again, just ask
your self-is this really true? If not then let it bounce off of you
but realize when you resonate with the thought so well, you may have
an unconscious agreement with the orange…trust your gut feelings
and know others love polm juice!

Amy


#38

Veronica,

Aahhhhhhh! You used the ‘n’ word. When I was a student at Vassar I
got into big trouble with that one. Anyway, becoming a jeweler made
it easy for me to keep my wife (and me) supplied. I just let her look
over my latest tray of newly set stones and pick one. Keeps me
smilin’.


#39
Are you saying that we've given up our rights to walk into a
jewelry store when we made our first piece of jewelry? That the
only reason we'd go in would be to rip off someone else? 

Of course not! You have the same ‘rights’ that you always did - but
it would be to your advantage to recognize that YOU, as a designer,
are the competition to the designers at these galleries, and if you
tell the gallery who you are, then THEY know it too, and you will
OFTEN be treated as such. Don’t be affronted by this treatment -
business can be damn hard, and helping potential competition is NOT
the way to stay in business!

Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers


#40
I go to many craft shows..not as many as I used to and not for the
purpose of copying anything. The only thing I wanted to add was
that I have never been treated with anything but kindness and
respect from about 98% of the people I talked to. I don't know if
it's my "honest face" or that I have a knack for picking the right
ones. I am forthright and don't try to hide anything. 

Kim, this can make all the difference in the world. You represent
yourself as a professional right off the bat, which you are, and
these people respect that. You don’t talk with them for ten minutes
and then ‘let it slip’ that you are a designer, you start off with
that relationship on the table.

Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers