Copper has little to do with tarnish (it does affect the rate of tarnish somewhat) tarnish is silver sulfide any high silver alloy will tarnish.
Can we clear this up? Do we consider tarnish, black gunk, or silver
yellowing or both?
Does silver with copper in it go black over time, or does all silver
go black?
The reason I ask is that a friend owns a fine silver Viking ring
that’s only yellowing now, after more than 10 centuries.
Regards Charles
Wow, it’s sort of comforting that it’s not just me.
The itchy throat from driving behind someone with a broken catalytic
converter, it how everyone feels I guess.
Anyway, are there other ways to blacken silver without using liver
of sulphur?
Regards Charles
I'm with you on the sulphur spelling Charles!
Ditto. I think part of the changes of this type have to do with
printers wanting to use less space. So, we now get “forgo” instead
of “forego.” Annoying, because the origin of such words becomes more
obscure.
Judy Bjorkman
I wear a fine silver with fine gold inlay wedding band 24/7 and it
never tarnishes. Sterling turns black rather quickly on my finger.
i have been useing argentium for about as long as it has been out
there. as far as not tarnishing, it is not perfect, it is better
that is no doubt. the lack of fire scale is it’s best attribute, for
me.it also looks much better, especially when sitting next to regular
silver. has anyone plated this material? and with what? rodium over
normal silver eventualy comes through (the tarnish) any coments?
Anyway, are there other ways to blacken silver without using liver of sulphur?
Chlorine, tellurium and selenium compounds darken silver as well
James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
Can we clear this up? Do we consider tarnish, black gunk, or silver yellowing or both?
both it is a difference in degree of sulfide formation (sulfur
concentration or time of exposure or both)
Does silver with copper in it go black over time, or does all silver go black?
All high silver alloys (greater than 50-60 % silver) will tarnish
when exposed to sulfur compounds it is just a question of time and
sulfur concentration as to when it will happen
The reason I ask is that a friend owns a fine silver Viking ring that's only yellowing now, after more than 10 centuries.
It has likely been “cleaned” by handling or other mild abrasion many
times over its life. The rate of tarnish has greatly accelerated
since we started burning fossil fuels which put significant amounts
of sulfur into the air.
James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
It has likely been "cleaned" by handling or other mild abrasion many times over its life. The rate of tarnish has greatly accelerated since we started burning fossil fuels which put significant amounts of sulfur into the air.
I was assured that it was a grave find, and untreated. He has a lot
of other artifacts, that are also in “as is” condition, as cleaning
would potentially destroy some, so none have been cleaned. Because my
skin is very acidic, I have to touch everything he owns with gloves
on. We found this out early on when he handed me a small iron sax (a
type of knife), when I handed it back most of the exposed tang was
left clinging to my palm.
I have seen a lot of Viking silver that has not been cleaned. The
ones that are still white, are fine silver (pure silver if you
will), the ones that are rugged looking appear to have additional
elements added to the alloys. It’s interesting, and I’ve got a piece
of fine silver sitting in a display case that I haven’t handled, I’m
keeping an eye on it to see if I can notice any tarnish… none yet
after 10 years. It’s next to the 5th century bronze brooch it was
cast off… I’ll keep you posted.
I agree we live in an age of sulphur, I’m sort of hoping that will
change 
Regards Charles
James,
Anyway, are there other ways to blacken silver without using liver of sulphur?
Cl is bad news for silver, tellurium and selenium compounds will work
but tend to be much more toxic than LOS. Although usually blacker
than LOS, and some are in my collection but LOS is not that bad to
have around the house. Easy choice.
jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
Cl is bad news for silver, tellurium and selenium compounds will work but tend to be much more toxic than LOS. Although usually blacker than LOS, and some are in my collection but LOS is not that bad to have around the house. Easy choice.
You are right but I was just offering compounds that are used to
turn silver dark. Chlorine can be bad news many metals, it is very
reactive and leads to corrosion in many metals. On silver it will
form a silver chloride coating that is actually what turns black as
it is photoreactive. Chlorine also promotes stress crack corrosion
which is another good reason to avoid it. As for the selenium and
tellurium compounds I will not have them in my shop because of their
toxicity but I also don’t do much with blackening silver and some of
the best blacks I have seen on silver are from selenium toner or
selenious acid based patinas. So folks who use any of them should be
aware of the dangers.
James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
... tellurium and selenium compounds will work but tend to be much more toxic than LOS.
I have a question – what is the nature of the toxicity of selenious
acid? In what way is it toxic when used in a patina solution?
Wikipedia says
Selenium salts are toxic in large amounts, but trace amounts of the element are necessary for cellular function in most, if not all, animals... and Like many selenium compounds, selenous acid is highly toxic, and ingestion of any significant quantity of selenous acid is usually fatal. Symptoms of selenium poisoning can occur several hours after exposure, and may include stupor, nausea, severe hypotension and death.
and (also Googled)
Selenious acid and its salts are capable of penetrating the skin and can produce acute poisonings. Causes irritations and burns of the skin. It is highly toxic orally.... (EPA, 1998)
When selenious acid is part of a patina solution, and then most of
the patina is rubbed off the metal (except in the recessed areas),
where does the danger of toxicity lie? I assume none of us are
drinking the stuff or licking our jewelry. If anyone has any specific
on this I’d appreciate it, since I love the black patina
(on brass, copper, and nickel-silver) produced by selenious acid
patina solutions, such as Jax Black. When I dip my finished pieces of
jewelry into the /same/ small amount of used Jax Black for months on
end, I find it hard to believe that much selenium in any form remains
present on the jewelry. I wear my own jewelry, including wide rings
made of patinated brass or nickel-silver, and have never suffered any
irritation or burning of the skin, nor have I suffered “stupor,
nausea, severe hypotension and death.” I assume the small amounts of
selenium present in this type of use are not harmful. Are there other
opinions/experiences on this matter?
Judy Bjorkman
Judy,
... tellurium and selenium compounds will work but tend to be much more toxic than LOS.
I was refering to the toxic qualities of the applied solution. Skin,
breathing or gawd forbid drinking of stuff. I don’t use selenium but
my tellurium stuff does deposit a coating of tellurium as the black
stuff. I don’t know how fatal the stuff is, usually I just use LOS.
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
Does anyone know how we tell which plastic zip lock bags do not contain sulphur ? Ones we can store silver in to help prevent tarnish.
I have used different sizes in the 2-mil zippit bags from Rio Grande
in Albuquerque, NM., in my business for over 15 years. I never
noticed any problem with items tarnishing more quickly as a result of
being in these bags. I do see in their current catalog that they are
selling tarnish resistant plastic bags which cost a bit more. Rio
Grande could probably be more specific in helping you with answers on
the differences in these bags.
Pat Klein
A Satisfied Customer