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Feedback on Rio's water torch


#1

Hi

I was wondering if anyone has feedback on the Rio water torch- I am
looking at a number of applications- mostly fabrication of silver
pieces from heavy rings to belt buckles. Would a unit like this have
the heat available to solder two pieces of say 2" x 3" 18ga sheet
silver together? And how about small ingot casting?

Namaste, Ande


#2
Would a unit like this have the heat available to solder two pieces
of say 2" x 3" 18ga sheet silver together? And how about small
ingot casting? 

NO; you will find it inadequate.

Daniel Culver


#3

I’ve been using a water torch since they first came out on the market
in the late 80’s. I tell folks that a water torch is like a micro
wave oven. What it does well, it does VERY well. What it doesn’t do
well…let’s just say it’s pretty useless. Here’s what it does
well. It puts out a very hot pin point flame that is awesome for
tipping and soldering in very tight and awkward places that a small
flame is needed. Say a very fine chain repair. It works best on gold
and platinum. It does not heat large areas of metal very
effectively. It’s not good for silver at all where you need a larger
and softer flame.

Hope this helps.
-Jo


#4

Forget the water torch based on your needs…buy a good gas/air or
gas/O2 torch instead. I have a water torch generously given me after
my hydroflux welder drowned in hurricane Katrina, so that makes
years of use and experience trying to work silver with it, until I
relaized it was not capable of welding anything, just spot heat
concentrated soldering with very quick applications…as for casting
anything with them- without putting the machine out of warranty
instantly by modifying the torch hose and handle to allow you to use
a heavier tip and universal hosing -it is far less effextive for belt
buckles, holloware, brazing, etc than even a harbor freight pencil
torch! But what it is good at is repair work, jump ring solering,
spot patching, granulation, etc…wherein you match the gauge to tip
size, it is limiting. Spirit flame, a competitor H20 torch will try
and imply that their machine can do the things that the Okai brand
cannot is simply untrue. Yes it is a more powerful fuel producer but
that means more forceful air which means more solder flying around,
but that realy just means you still need a standard hoke, smith or
gentec torch in addition to any water torch you desire for precision
work, filigree, and handmade fine chain and the like. rer


#5

Hi,

When buying a torch, consider the type of work you’ll be using it
on. You need a torch that will put out the quantity of heat (btu’s)
as well as the temp of the heat required by the metal being
soldered/fused.

Without a doubt an hydrogen/oxy torch puts out a high temp flame.
However, most water torches don’t put out a flame with a high btu
content (amount of of heat). Solder/fusing silver or copper over
about 1" square generally requires more heat than these torches can
provide. Working with this type/size of metal requires a higher btu
content, the type put out by an acetylene/air or an acetylene/oxy
torch with the appropriate size tip.

If you’re going to be soldeing/fusing gold or silver in smaller
pieces an acetylene/air or a butane fueled torch will probably work.
If you plan to work on platinum you need a torch capable of a high
temp. However, platinum can be contaminated with the carbon in a
poorly adjusted torch using acetylene/oxy. The water torch may be
satisfactory for platinum, unless you plan to use it to melt
platinum for casting. Then it won’t be capable of providing enough
btu’s, but the temp will be high enough.

Dave


#6

Dear R. E. Rourke:

Spirit flame, a competitor H20 torch will try and imply that their
machine can do the things that the Okai brand cannot is simply
untrue. Yes it is a more powerful fuel producer but that means more
forceful air which means more solder flying around, but that realy
just means you still need a standard hoke, smith or gentec torch in
addition to any water torch you desire for precision work,
filigree, and handmade fine chain and the like.

I mange North American operations for Spirig and need to correct
your misstatements.

Although we tend not to make direct by name comparisons, your above
statement

Spirit flame, a competitor H20 torch will try and imply that their
machine can do the things that the Okai brand cannot is simply
untrue" 

is simply not correct. Please understand we do not imply, we state it
as a simple fact.

It is a shame you do not have enough direct working experience with
our Spirflame[tm] Karat 250. Our Spirflame[tm] (not Spirit flame, you
keep spelling it wrong) will do many things a single cell generator,
specifically the Turbo Braze by Okai will not do. Being a fully
patented multicell generator, not only do we make a greater volume of
gas but we can deliver this gas much more evenly, and at much lower,
more exact pressures. We not only run larger tips, we specifically
run much smaller tips at lower pressures, maintaining those flames,
than can be run with any single cell unit.

And these adjustments are very easy to make in the 30 to 170 mbar
range. Nothing fly’s around at the 30 mbar range. Not only do we say
so, but our customers and their work, say so. If you go to our web
site you will see examples and customer comments which confirm this.
As an example, I give you the work of Giovanni Corvaja, his
components are often thinner than a human hair, and are all
assembled with a Spirflame[tm]. Mr. Corvaja used to be a single cell
customer. His skill went beyond their capabilites. There are also our
many industrial customers who also work by hand or fully automated at
microscopic levels.

Many industrial applications require far more exacting standards of
plus or minus one degree of temperature over long periods of time
with very small flames, for very delicate micro parts. Due to our
series of patented technologies, we are the sole supplier of gas
generators for these industries. It should also be stated, that for
many years we have had a signed agreement with Okai Corporation to
provide Spirflame[tm] generators for their customers when a more
precise and accurate flame was required, than their units could
provide.

They came to us, because they understood what you clearly do not. We
could do a number of things in flame size and accuracy they do not.
Just as we are not able to match their lower pricing. Each has their
place.

In closing, I would like to state that we have a good cross section
of jewelry customers beginner to pro, from the finest shops in the
world to small closets or basements. And for many of these, our
Spirflames[tm] are the only bench torches they have or use. This
means, in their case, your statement

you still need a standard hoke, smith or gentec torch in addition
to any water torch you desire 

is also not true in many cases. We qualify every sale very carefully,
and we ONLY sell to customers where we would be the best heating
method for their work. We fully track and care for every single
Spirflame[tm] within North America, over 2,500 units both industrial
and jewelry. Our jewelry customers receive the same excellent level
of service as GE or GM. We are only an 800 number away (800
499-9933). Have you ever heard any complaint, or Spirflame[tm]
support question, posted from an existing Spirflame[tm] customer in
the entire history of Orchid?

For you to suggest our firm, or our team, would in any way mislead
customers about our product, their capabilities, or our services, to
not carefully qualify all their needs, shows a direct lack of
wisdom, knowledge and understanding not only about our product the
Spirflame[tm], but our firm.

Gary W. Miller, Sr. Technical Advisor
800 499-9933
Spirig Advanced Technologies
www.spirig.org