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Fake reticulation


#1

Hey Dave Sebaste: I have an example of that fake reticulation technique up
on my web page; look under the NEW WORKS button then go to the GODDESS
piece. The fan shaped piece around the amethsyt is hacksaw silver dust
sprinkled around the bezel setting then fused. Polishing gives that final
effect, nice. Dave

Art Jewelry for Conscious People
http://www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html


#2

Dave Stephens wrote:

The fan shaped piece around the amethsyt is hacksaw silver dust

sprinkled around the bezel setting then fused. Polishing gives that final
effect, nice. Dave

Art Jewelry for Conscious People
http://www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html

Thanks for sharing your creativity and sense of beauty. Lovely images.
Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com
Designer & builder ofmetalsmithing equipment


#3

In a message dated 96-11-24 12:42:40 EST, you write:

<< http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com >>
What would recommend for a beginner when starting pressing silver using
urithane. Lloyd


#4

TwoSunsTrd@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 96-11-24 12:42:40 EST, you write:

<< http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com >>
What would recommend for a beginner when starting pressing silver using
urithane. Lloyd

I don’t believe that I have the benefit of a full and complete question
here, but I think that you are asking about forming silver using
Urethane as a pressing medium with a hydraulic press. As a beginner, the
first thing that I would do is purchase Susan Kingsley’s book:
“Hydraulic Die Forming For Jewelers And Metalsmiths.” This is an
excellent beginning level entry into the wonders of hydraulic die
forming.
I use her book to build on as I show more advanced techniques in the
"Learn" section of my web page. Most of the methods shown require a
minimum of 20 tons of pressure available to the user.
I will be glad to provide you with more if i better knew
what your needs are.
Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com


#5

Neat effect, Dave! I was talking about fake granulation… those “pesky
little spheres”, but I like the effect you’ve achieved there! Or where
you thinking about my earlier question about working with reticulated
sheet?

I’ve done some actual reticulation of sterling sheet, and am working on
my first project using it. The advantage of your technique is the
ability to use conventional fabrication methods, then apply the surface
treatment. Hmmm…

Did you coat the base piece in flux, then dust and fuse? Did you
actually take a hacksaw to silver to create the dust, or was it the
result of another procedure? If you created the dust especially for
this process, can you elaborate on your technique?

Thanks for sharing!

Dave


#6

In a message dated 96-11-25 12:27:03 EST, you write:

<< http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com >>
Hi Lee, I have her book and I built the press that is illustrated in her book
and was going to press sheet silver. Am going to order a 6x6" container and
the urithane, what urithane should I order with the container? Lloyd


#7

TwoSunsTrd@aol.com wrote:

and was going to press sheet silver. Am going to order a 6x6" container and
the urithane, what urithane should I order with the container?
The way to best use the form box approach is to use the 1" 60 durometer
urethane #125.731 @39.50. You can use the harder ones as well, but you
will not get as much forming action from them. You will also need
lubricant. I thought that I covered all of this in the info in the
"Learn" section. Did I leave something out?
I have one individual that I know of that is making Navajo tobacco tins
with this approach.

BTW, I am going to be teaching a couple of workshops in Santa Fe in
April of '97. One will be a basic die form and the next one will be
advanced die form. Both are three days. They are on 12-13-14 and
21-22-23 respectively. They are to coincide with the S.N.A.G. conference
to be held in Albuquerque on 16-17-18-19. I will have more info in the
workshop section of my website next week.

Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com


#8

Neat effect, Dave! I was talking about fake granulation… those “pesky
little spheres”, but I like the effect you’ve achieved there! Or where
you thinking about my earlier question about working with reticulated
sheet?

I’ve done some actual reticulation of sterling sheet, and am working on
my first project using it. The advantage of your technique is the
ability to use conventional fabrication methods, then apply the surface
treatment. Hmmm…

Did you coat the base piece in flux, then dust and fuse? Did you
actually take a hacksaw to silver to create the dust, or was it the
result of another procedure? If you created the dust especially for
this process, can you elaborate on your technique?

Thanks for sharing!

Dave

Dave: (say, is there an echo in here?) Yes, I was referring to an earlier
post by you and just got that image up last week so thought you might like
to see a cool technique. The hacksaw silver dust was from cutting silver
ingots down for casting using a standard hacksaw and blade which created a
pile of silver dust. I saw the technique in an old book on indian jewelry,
I haven’t quite duplicated what I saw there but it is a cool trick. You do
have to be careful when fusing at its easy to warp the sheet. I do it on
sheet first then cut it up and fabricate. I think I applied a pripps
coating on the sheet first though I don’t think it makes much difference
you’re going to get firescale with this thing anyway though fluxing might
be a good idea too. I’m a bit curious about this faking granulation too.
Charles mentions using poppy seeds with super glue though I don’t see how
you’d get exactly the same finesse as granulation. Thinking about trying
that next time I cast if my back ordered crucilbles ever show up. I think
it would be a royal pain trying to put tiny amounts of superglue onto a
poppy seed and once it was stuck you couldn’t move it around. Also seems
like there’d be a high danger of the seeds getting bubbles or falling off
when vacuuming the investment. Has anyone out there ever tried
this?..Dave

Art Jewelry for Conscious People
http://www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html


#9

Did you coat the base piece in flux, then dust and fuse? Did you
actually take a hacksaw to silver to create the dust, or was it the
result of another procedure? If you created the dust especially for
this process, can you elaborate on your technique?

To the Daves -

I’ve lost track of what’s been said on this silver granulation/ fake
reticulation(?) subject, so someone may have already said this. The "dust"
is actually called “lemel”. Best if it’s fine silver lemel on fine silver
sheet or on sterling silver sheet that’s been heated and quenched enough
times to bring up the fine silver. You can make your own lemel by taking a
heavy file to some relatively thick sheet or use what you find in your
studio, only it should be clean.

There are two ways to do it. Either copper plate the lemel/granules (to do
this deliberately contaminate some used pickle solution - best if greenish-
by putting in some steel wool and then the lemel/granules, which will
immediately turn pink) OR use (introduce) a solution of hide glue, water
and copper hydroxide. The key is the introduction of copper which will
reduce the melting point of the silver at the points where the
lemel/granules meet the sheet.

Use the hyde/glue and water or gum tragacanth to get the lemel/granules to
stick to the sheet if necessary. This may or may not be the same solution
with the copper hydroxide in it, depending on the situation.

If the lemel/granules are already copper-plated, pick them up with a
paintbrush that’s full of the hyde glue/water mixture. You shouldn’t need
the copper hydroxide because your lemel is already pink with copper from
the contaminated pickle. Acetylene torch (heat from underneath) or kiln
will work. Heat until you see a flash across the surface. Some
lemel/granules will not stick. It may take a few times before you get it
all to stick.

If you use the other method, get the lemel/granules onto the sheet metal,
either loose on the surface or stuck down with hyde/glue/water or gum
tagacanth. Introduce the hyde glue/water/copper hydroxide mixture with a
paint brush. You don’t need much. The solution is like slightly watery flux.

I am not an expert at this technique. This is just what I recall from a
workshop I took years ago. It’s been a while since I’ve done this with
silver. What I do remember is that it’s harder to do with silver than with
gold and will require some experimentation to get it to work for you.

Kim


#10

I am not an expert at this technique. This is just what I recall from a
workshop I took years ago. It’s been a while since I’ve done this with
silver. What I do remember is that it’s harder to do with silver than with
gold and will require some experimentation to get it to work for you.

Kim

KIM: wow, thats really informative thanks. I tried it strictly with hacksaw
sterling dust, pretty grainy stuff on sterling sheet. It works ok on
smaller pieces but wonder about larger items. I saw it done on indian
bracelets and wondered how they got such uniform textures. I heated from
the top on a soldering board to get it hot on top then just fused as
normal. I did have to fuse it twice as some didn’t stick the first time,
maybe flux would have helped. Thanks for the great info…Dave

Art Jewelry for Conscious People
http://www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html


#11

In a message dated 96-11-25 20:06:22 EST, you write:

<< http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com >>
Hi, Lee, I would be interested in the workshops. I cannot get your web site
on my computer, please give address again. Thanks for the info. Lloyd


#12

TwoSunsTrd@aol.com wrote:

Hi, Lee, I would be interested in the workshops. I cannot get your web site
on my computer, please give address again. Thanks for the info.
I don’t know which browser that you are using, but with Netscape, my
signature line starting with http is the URL for the site, and is
highlited in blue. With Netscape, you should be able to just click on my
signature line and viola! you are there. See below arrow/
Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com