[Exhibition] Stacey Lee Webber: CHANGE

Jewelry Discussion
21 
There may be mostly jewelers in this forum but I would say that we
are more metalsmiths especially if you look at the questions that
are asked.

If you look at the Orchid home page this is what you will see about
what Orchid is supposed to be:

Ganoksin is dedicated to serve the needs of the world’s
jewelers. It is our mission to educate, improve working conditions
and facilitate sharing between goldsmiths globally. Ganoksin
continues improving access to for productivity, safety,
skills and education of all jewelers, professionals and hobbyists.

Ganoksin also provide various platforms and forums for the exchange
of and opinion; with contributors from all over the world
speaking from a wide range of technical and aesthetic experiences,
covering a full range of topics of interest to the jeweler and the
gemologist.

While many jewelers are metalsmiths, the focus of Orchid was
designed to be for the jewelry and gemology business, not metal
artists. I’m not saying there isn’t room for everyone but this is
supposed to be primarily a jewelry related news group.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC

22

I am not convinced that the penny hammer is a “hammer covered with
pennies.” To me it looks like pennies constructed to look like a
hammer. You can see threw it, I don’t think that is possible unless
the supposedly “covered hammer” were made of plexi-glass.It seem s
pretty inventive to me and in this day of “green” mania, reusing
something as common as coins is a pretty neat idea. Think of how much
money she is saving on materials. Why did I not think of that first!

Linda Lank

23 
I am not convinced that the penny hammer is a "hammer covered with
pennies." To me it looks like pennies constructed to look like a
hammer.

It is. All her tools are completely “made”, not mere coverings over
some other. Detail views on her web site make that obvious.

in this day of "green" mania, reusing something as common as coins
is a pretty neat idea. Think of how much money she is saving on
materials. Why did I not think of that first!

Take a look at her “studio” shots. Entire buckets of pennies. That’s
enough pennies to be some serious loose change… Some of the
sculptural pieces are made with no doubt many pounds of the things.
Some of her other coin pieces arent’ made with such cheap coins, too.
Quarters and dollar coins can add up quickly. And consider that even
though pennies are worth only a penny each, it’s still more than the
cost of just raw copper or bronze that size. Notice that since she’s
soldering or otherwise joining her pennies, she’ll have had to
obtain pennies that are old enough to not be the current copper clad
zinc, or whatever they are. This work may be cheaper than doing it in
platinum or gold, but I’m guessing that her material is still quite
an investment, both in money, and time. Maybe that’s why some of her
work explores other things, like drywall screws. Those you can buy by
the pound, already sorted for size and finish, etc…

Peter

24 
Entire buckets of pennies. That's enough pennies to be some serious
loose change...

Buckets of pennies paid for by the tax payers. More than ten years
ago a penny cost us eleven cents to make. Now it cost more. I don’t
care for anyone making this kind of assumption with my tax dollars
unless they’ve been elected to congress to rip me off, no matter what
the artist vision is. Dan

Daniel Culver

25

Hi all,

Can you make a living selling hammers and saws made out of pennies?

Hans Meevis.
http://www.meevis.com

26 
Can you make a living selling hammers and saws made out of
pennies?

Or more to the point, can you make a living making and selling art?
Those tools aren’t made to be used as tools. They’re made as artworks
who’s image happens to be those tools. Clause Oldenburg also made
mundane objects and sold them as sculpture with great success because
he’d made them very very big. Picasso now and then took random pieces
of junk, assembled them in unexpected ways and made respected artwork
out of them (I’m thinking of a “bulls head” made from Bike seat and
handlebars…) It’s not the “tool” image, per se, or the use of
pennies as the material, that will determine if these works or others
by her will end up making her a decent living. It’s what she does
with the work as a whole, and how well she produces artwork that
people are impressed enough by, to buy.

Peter

27 
Can you make a living selling hammers and saws made out of pennies?

You’re not suppose to ask that question. We’re talking about ‘art’
here. As soon as commercial consideration enters the equation we’re
no longer talking ‘art’.

That’s the academic position.

KPK

28 
You're not suppose to ask that question. We're talking about 'art'
here. As soon as commercial consideration enters the equation
we're no longer talking 'art'.

Aw, common, Kevin, what is this really about? Even Michelangelo had
to worry about pleasing his patrons! Art has always had to try to
find peace with the market, whether the market is the Medici, a
Pope, or the guy next door. No one in any serious position has ever
claimed that if you’re trying to make a making a living, you can’t
be making art!

The answer is, it ain’t easy, but sometimes it can be done. This
young woman looks to me as though she has what it takes, and I wish
her the best of luck.

Noel

29 
You're not suppose to ask that question. We're talking about 'art'
here. As soon as commercial consideration enters the equation
we're no longer talking 'art'. That's the academic position.

Not for quite some time, it’s not. At least not from what I’ve seen.
For years, or decades even, art was taught as a “pure” discipline. An
educational holdover from Victorian ideals of art education and
definitions of what is art, etc. When I first when to college in the
70s, that was still pretty much the scene. You learned art. Not much
consideration of making a living with it. But when I went back to
grad school in the late 80s, things had changed. While the art itself
was still taught according to pretty much the same aesthetic driven
ideals, a good deal of attention was also paid to the business of
being an artist. Students took a formal business practices class,
learning contracts, insurance, dealing with galleries, marketing
questions, etc. In the regular metals classes, the issues were also
often addressed, such as the senior metals class having, as one of
the class assignments, to work up a marketing plan for an item or
line of items, including how they’d test market the work, where it
might sell, and all the rest. Still a pretty minimal level of
business education compared to what might actually be needed, but it
was indeed addressed. And metals programs I’ve seen recently, go a
lot further in making sure students address the questions of what
they are going to do with the training after school. Students
themselves demand this focus, as they are a lot more aware these
days, of the question of whether their degree is worth all the time
and money it takes to obtain. They want to know it’s not just to feel
good, but can, if they work at it, lead to an actual career. It’s
quite different from the way it was decades ago, at least in the
better programs. Now, none of this training actually guarantees any
student that they’ll make it as an independent artist. After all, if
their work doesn’t appeal to anyone, no amount of marketing effort is
going to make them rich. But these days, even in that event,
students might actually have some education in how to research the
marketability of their own work, and how to adapt it if needed to
improve their success. It’s not a commercially oriented education, of
course, but it at least addresses to some degree, the whole question
of academic accountability. That is, programs, parents, and students
themselves, examining whether the students are getting their money’s
worth in a college education.

Peter

30

Noel, check with the academics. Did you ever hear of a business
course for artists?

I don’t know who you define as "no one in any serious position…"
What is it in “it ain’t easy, but sometimes it can be done.”?

This is not about Stacy; I think her “tools” are wonderful. But do
you think it’s a viable commercial venture?

KPK

31 
It's what she does with the work as a whole, and how well she
produces artwork that people are impressed enough by, to buy.

Indeed, Peter, and there in lies the problem. Take that hammer she
made. Utterly ugly, in my opinion, yet, it was certainly not made in
a Saturday afternoon over a couple of bottles of wine. That piece
required a lot of thought, planning and skill, make no mistake.
Having lived all my life making ‘art jewellery’ ( whatever that
means) and living off that, I see jewellery that I make as divided
into three classes. The bread and butter Walmart jewellery that you
HAVE to make to pay the rent.

Then the “gee wiz” jewellery that goes like " Gee wiz Martha, that
ring looks really nice on you. Do you like it? “Yes Bob, I do, it is
really different” ----sold

Then the “WOW” jewellery “OMG that must have taken hundreds of hours
to make.” That type seldom sells, and lies in a cold, dark safe,
waiting for better times. Cynicaly put, all it does is give you
status.

Her hammer reminds me of WOW jewellery.

Hans
http://www.meevis.com
http://hansmeevis.blogspot.com

32 
Indeed, Peter, and there in lies the problem. Take that hammer she
made. Utterly ugly, in my opinion, yet, it was certainly not made
in a Saturday afternoon over a couple of bottles of wine. That
piece required a lot of thought, planning and skill, make no
mistake.

One of the things I’ve come to believe about art, over the years, is
that one of the hallmarks of really good artistic thinking is that it
tends to be controversial. Things that just everyone likes, tend to
not be teaching anyone anything new. Some of them are downright
kitsch, not art. The things that really are doing something new, or
showing people something they hadn’t seen before, will not only
attract fans, but also attract detractors who can’t believe something
could be so ugly. Look at the early history of the cubist,
modernist, impressionist, or various other movements in 20th century
painting, or similar ones in sculpture, and they’re almost always
marked not only by early champions of the work, but a bunch of
critics who decry the work as ugly, crude, obscene, or who knows
whatall else.

If Ms. Webber’s work did not invoke some degree of controversy, I’d
see it as a warning that perhaps she’d not done enough with the
ideas, or was being too timid artistically.

You might wish, if you haven’t done so already, to go to her site,
click on the publications page, and read the two pdf files there.
Those are the formal defenses of her work and the proposal for her
MFA thesis show, that she presented to the faculty at U.W. They may
help you to more fully understand what she’s trying to do.

And for my money, (that is, if I had any to spare in today’s
economy), I’d love to own that hammer, or one of her other tools.
I’ve a particular fancy for the filligree ring clamp and saw frame
too, given that I spend a lot of time with the mundane versions of
those two tools in my hands already, but less time using a carpenters
hammer. You may not like those works, but as you may have guessed

Which is good. If everyone liked the same things, we’d only need a
very few standard items. One standard finger ring would be good for
everyone. One model of car, one color of shirt, etc…

Peter

33 
Noel, check with the academics. Did you ever hear of a business course
for artists?

I’m not Noel, but yes, I have. When I was in grad school at Tyler in
the lat 80s, the “business practices” course was required of all the
seniors and grad students in the metals area. And that’s not unique.
That type of course has become quite common in the curriculum
offerings of many art departments. It’s not the main focus of the
programs, of course, but unlike art education in the 60s and 70s,
most programs have come to understand that they do their graduates no
favors by not giving them any basics in how to manage the business
of being an artist. These courses are, of course, bare minimums, and
may not be enough. But they’re a start, at least.

I don't know who you define as "no one in any serious position..."
What is it in "it ain't easy, but sometimes it can be done."? This
is not about Stacy; I think her "tools" are wonderful. But do you
think it's a viable commercial venture?

you’re not going to see them selling at Macy’s department stores
(though coin jewelry, rings, earrings, modestly prices items,
marketed well, might make it there). But the work is striking enough
that I’ll bet that she can build up a core group of collectors, and
galleries promoting her work to collectors. Especially the more
sculptural works.

Peter

34 
Noel, check with the academics. Did you ever hear of a business
course for artists?

Yes, in fact many, if not most, grad schools now include business
courses in their offerings within the art department. Plus there are
a good many offered as workshops outside of school settings. This
was beginning even back when I was in grad school and the dinosaurs
roamed the earth. Wish they had done more of it, but at least they
were doing it.

Beth in SC

35 
Noel, check with the academics. Did you ever hear of a business
course for artists?

Yes-- see Peter’s reply

I don't know who you define as "no one in any serious position..."
What is it in "it ain't easy, but sometimes it can be done."?

Sorry, don’t understand the question.

This is not about Stacy; I think her "tools" are wonderful. But do
you think it's a viable commercial venture?

Possibly, but that’s not the point. The point was you saying we
aren’t supposed to ask, that as soon as you ask then it is no longer
art.

Noel

36 
I see jewellery that I make as divided into three classes.

I am very happy to see this clear description of the different types
of jewelry you make, hans, though the use of the term “Walmart” is
questionable, but I don’t think you’re entirely serious about that.
I, too, make these three types, though I never thought about it
quite this way (and mine never see the inside of a safe).

But you’re right-- there’s the bread and butter stuff, most of which
I hate making but I can’t stop because it sells. The Gee Whiz stuff
sells, but not as fast, and the Wow stuff mostly doesn’t, or very
very slowly, but without the Wow, the Gee Whiz probably wouldn’t get
the opportunity and the push, don’t you think? “Omogod, I love that,
but I could never afford it in a million years. And where would I
put it? But I want to take home a reminder of that, and THIS I can
wear and afford…” or something like that.

Then, at least for me, there’s a step above that, that I’ve only
reached for a couple of times so far (in my case, very elaborate,
laborious, expensive teapots) and those sell right away. Sadly, I
cannot crank these out. It takes a lot of thought and planning, and
a lot of time to create them. I haven’t learned to do that over and
over. Like trying to create a new gourmet recipe while the guests
are pounding their cups on the table…

Noel

37 
(hammer) it was certainly not made in a Saturday afternoon over a
couple of bottles of wine. That piece required a lot of thought,
planning and skill, make no mistake.

How is a this piece actually constructed? How do you hold all the
pieces in position, while soldering? By whatever methods miss Webber
produced a piece like this, I believe the workmanship is exceptional.
If possible,I for one, would appreciate a technical discussion from
miss Webber on how she made these pieces. If that is not possible,
perhaps some of the more skilled craftsmen, (John, Peter, Hans,
Leonid etc.) would give us some insight on this.

thank you, Andrew

38 
While the art itself was still taught according to pretty much the
same aesthetic driven ideals, a good deal of attention was also
paid to the business of being an artist. Students took a formal
business practices class, learning contracts, insurance, dealing
with galleries, marketing questions, etc. In the regular metals
classes, the issues were also often addressed, such as the senior
metals class having, as one of the class assignments, to work up a
marketing plan for an item or line of items, including how they'd
test market the work, where it might sell, and all the rest.

I WISH my school had done this! And I JUST graduated last year! I
think all art programs should have this as part of their curriculum.
I’m very disappointed that mine did not. And it was only minutely
touched on in my casting class, where we had a project where we had
to design something we could mass produce. I am definitely among the
group of people wondering if I wasted my money on my art education. I
think I may have picked the wrong school, but it’s too late to go
back now. Now I’m under mounds of debt and don’t want to rack up more
with grad school and possibly end up no better off.

Jen

39 
One of the things I've come to believe about art, over the years,
is that one of the hallmarks of really good artistic thinking is
that it tends to be controversial.

Bingo. Stacey is successful just with the fact this is being
discussed.

Two different markets. Metal as Art for the collector crowd vs Metal
to Wear Everyday for the rest. Choose your market, or play in both,
but know which it is. Metalsmith magazine or Jewelry Artist/LJ?

Nancy Goodenough

40 
Then the "WOW" jewellery "OMG that must have taken hundreds of
hours to make." That type seldom sells, and lies in a cold, dark
safe,waiting for better times

Hans, I loved your description of the 3 types of jewelry! But this
category puts into words a feeling I have frequently had about
“art”, jewelry included- that something might be an amazing piece of
craftsmanship, but “why?”, and “for whom?”. I may be a bit if a
rube, but the stuff in American Craft magazine often hits me this
way, for example. Maybe I’m just not “arty” enough.

Allan Mason