Do small butane soldering torches work?

Jewelry Discussion
21 
I've thought about the plumbers torch and I just don't think
they'll work for me. I've got small hands and really like the more
precision control I get using a torch with a handle.

Hello Tracy,

FWIW there are some hand-held propane plumber torches that have a
pistol grip with a self-ignition trigger to fire up the torch and a
thumb wheel to adjust the flame. Of course most “torch with hose”
rigs are infinitely superior to these but they are an option and an
inexpensive one. For US$20 you can be up and running (however, all the
aforementioned limitations still apply).

Cheers,
Trevor F.

22

I forgot to mention something that may help someone out there. While
a small butane torch may be great for what it dose, it is a specialty
tool, and very limited. A plumbers torch can get some work done, but
again is limited. (I mentioned the LP gas torch; it is a serious
piece of business, with a price that reflects it, you also want the
optional #3 tip.) However some may want to do it on the cheap. I
noticed a mention of a pencil torch, be aware that it puts out 1400
F, that will not melt hard solder! (Nor is it rated for mapp.)

You do not have to settle for that. I will mention a Shark torch;
this is a better choice. You can get it from Kent’s tool or on Ebay,
for about the same price as the higher end butane torches. I thought
about one, it dose have some limits, but is a much better choice,
than the butane, plumbers, or pencil torch. Below is a discussion,
more important is that they have no financial interest and they use
it in a class they teach (insurance).

  To Wit, Edited: 

  Question- 

  "I know you gave it a thumbs up, but I need to know, and this
  is important, what limitations this torch may have. . What I
  need to know is if this torch can do large pendants, bracelets,
  and belt buckles and bolos. The last two, if it struggles a bit
  but will do it may be acceptable if it is not in the realm of
  ridiculous." 

  Reply- 

  Honesty, no problem! The <> is a piece of <>, wouldn't use it
  to burn down my house, let alone jewelry! I use a firebrick
  surround when I'm doing big jobs, which helps bounce the heat
  back at the object. . Honestly, I end up using two of them when
  I do stuff that big. I can easily do bolos, and large pendants,
  but I think the heavy weight of belt buckles might be
  prohibitive. . It ends up being a bit awkward. It is important
  to use the firebrick surround, keeps the heat up, otherwise
  you're fighting a losing battle. So in summary, it's not in the
  realm of ridiculous, by any stretch, just needs an extra boost
  of heat to speed up the process. In all other applications, I
  am quite happy with it, especially due to the cost and the fine
  point flame available.

Bottom line- this is a better choice for the price for those who
want something well under $100. As said it dose have limits, you may
need to use it for the soldering and another torch to help with heat
on larger jobs (if you already have one that will do) and forgo
buckles (large ones). But this is a better choice than what I have
heard. Its advantage is of course that it is cheap, placing it the
general price range of the pencil torch and better butane torches.

23

Hi Tracy,

My acetylene tank is a size B, I believe, and I store it inside our
studio/garage. It’s under pressure so you want to keep it secured
so it doesn’t fall over.

Here is a comparison of fuel temperatures that I found somewhere
that you might find useful.

Fuel Temperature			(degrees F)

Acetylene & Oxygen				6000
MAPP & Oxygen					5300
Butane & Oxygen				4995
Hydrogen & Oxygen				4850
Propane & Oxygen				4780
Natural Gas & Oxygen			4600
Acetylene & Air					4217
Hydrogen & Air					3713
MAPP & Air						3600
Propane & Air					3497
Butane & Air						3443
Natural Gas & Air				3420

Cheers.
John Fetvedt
bijoux de terre
http://www.jef.com

24 
Butane is heavier than propane and has a tendency to sink and pool
on the floor.

Milt, Thank you - I was obviously misinformed! I was told that
butane was safer, but perhaps my friend was just avoiding a
discussion on gases since I tend to be a bit paranoid. Next time
I’ll ask some one with knowledge and patience, LOL.

25

Tracy,

That is the torch I started with and it worked fine for me. In fact
at times I still use it. I have an acetylene tank that I also use but
a lot of time if I am in a hurry will pick up the small torch and use
it. It is easier to manipulate for me.

True there are some things it can’t do, but in general it works
well.

Nancy

26

These pistol grip plumbers torches with an piezoelectric ignition
button have one other improvement. They work in any position. No
more fizzling out when you tip the bottle to reach an awkward place.

Karen

27 
ng that expensive when what I really wanted was an acetylene setup.
I want to learn smithing so badly, but I also want to be smart
about my tool purchases, too.

This tells me that it would be a waste of money for you to buy the
little torches. If you want to do smithing with silver, you need a
torch that will make a nice soft big flame. Not a little pointy hot
flame that will melt holes in the metal before you get the whole
thing annealed. I think that you will be happier with a acetylene air
torch. I have been happy with my Presto Lite torch.

marilyn smith

28

The small butane torches can be very successful for lots of
soldering operations. One of the prime questions that has to be
asked is what type of solder are you using? The solder must fit
the job. It will do no good to try to solder something with a hard
solder if you cannot bring up the temperature of the entire piece
to the proper temperature. If we are talking hard solder, you are
looking at a temperature of 1450 F to get it to flow. It is much
easier to bring a piece up to the temperature of 1310 F for Easy or
1205 F for Extra easy. Paste solder also makes it an easier job
having the flux already incorporated in the solder. In using the
butane torch, sometimes the liquid flux will burn off more quickly
and if you are using the pallions will not allow the solder to flow
since the flux has been dissipated. The paste solder will hold up
with the butane torch very successfully. Lots of experimentation
and successes are now happening with the silver clay (Both PMC and
Silver Art Clay) using the butane torch for both firing the clay
and then soldering using the paste solder in the compatible
formulas and findings. Keep in mind that you heat the piece and do
not direct the flame directly on to the solder until you are close
to the flow point. Small silver bezels are a dream to solder with
the butane torch; very easy to control even using the hard solder.
It is important to know the products that are available and to also
fit the solder with the job being tackled. It is not necessarily
the torch that has been the problem, but maybe you are not using
the proper soldering formula for the job at hand.

Beth Katz
http://www.myuniquesolutions.com
Paste and Powder Solder for Jewelers and Metalsmiths

29

I have been reading the posts regarding the use of certain torches
etc. While I will admit that they may be better than nothing at all,
they are all going to lead to the following type of problem which is
unnecessary. Bev Bockman editor of the Northwest Federation of
Mineralogical Societies’ newsletter wrote me. “I had a terrible time
finding the right torch for my fabricating work-gave away one, sold
one and finally got a torch that seems good.”

The problem is with some of those solutions, so-called, is what they
can not do. This is not being mentioned. What is worse, is they will
subject people to the same problem above. Miss Bockman is not, was
not, a novice and had no need to “learn” until she got experience, as
I was told in looking for a solution. It’s quite easy to loose a
sense of humor, quickly; it’s not funny or smart. Sadly I see this
repeated. Why? There are some other problems as well.

LP gas storage in a residence (USA)- The NFPA regulation has been
adopted by all 50 states is that you can have a 2 1/2 lb. (Coleman
type) container, and no more than 2 for a 5 lb. total in a residence,
maximum, this is now law. This includes a structure attached to that
residence, such as a garage. Some districts and states have adopted
an earlier recommendation as their code, that is a 1-lb. canister and
no more than two. This means that larger LP tanks are not legal even
to store in a residence, sorry.

Acetylene is widely banned. Where it is not insurance can be a
problem. Call or email your fire department. If you have a studio
that is not your residence the same applies for any gas storage, see
what the code is. You may also want to ask your insurance company, it
may void your policy. That is you may find you do not have a policy
(on anything due to that acetylene tank or of course any non-code gas
storage). Even if in compliance the insurance carrier may drop or
refuse coverage, or want more $$.

If you are renter a regular oxygen tank may be out of the question.
The disposable canister last (on a Little Torch) 15-25 depending on
setting, at about $10 a pop. I do not see that as practical,
especially on silver.

There are ways out of this. The following is edited. "I am a list
member (different list) and have dealt with this flammable gas
storage, in the following manner. I am very respectful of safety
procedures and the need to meet fire codes. This is what I have done
in my home shop. I have an Oxygen refillable container. 40 cu ft. (M)
I use a disposable 16 0z propane cylinder. (Smith Little Torch) Do
not waste your time on the disposable oxygen tanks . - A total
waste of money - Not economical at all to use. If you wish to avoid
problems at all . simply sit the entire soldering set up outside
when you are not using it. Put it inside a secured, lockable, vented
cabinet OUTSIDE. Another used a licensed contractor for some
plumbing; tanks were outside. Another got hold of a used oxygen
generator for $100 and uses a propane canister. Those ideas are out
if you rent and new oxygen generators are quite expensive. Water
torches, another option, cost $ and are not the best choice for
everything.

I could not use acetylene, period and was limited to one pound of
gas. Furthermore I could not use a regular oxygen tank. I wrote to
the IGS about the feasibility of using converted acetylene equipment.
The answer was that I should rethink that. What you need is high heat
and fine control. Jewelers usually use oxygen and propane or
acetylene to do in seconds what will take minutes.

The converted equipment would work, with a large downside. The usual
air/propane torch is an acetylene torch with different tips allowing
it to burn propane. They are not even close to a match of their
unconverted counterparts. I had almost given up on a good solution.

I found a solution to my problem in the Precision LP Gas Torch. I
prefer it to air/acetylene for silver, had been using the clubs
torches; its real strength is in the fine work it is capable of. It
is a goldsmith’s torch after all, and unlike claims made for some
things this is no joke. The cooler flame is an advantage on silver.
It will not alloy palladium white gold, but will cast several
premixed palladium white gold casting grains. It will alloy any
standard gold or silver alloy. As for casting at about 400 Kpa, tests
were carried out, casting 90 grams of sterling. The agent’s regulator
goes only to 450 Kpa and have alloyed and cast 100 grams sterling,
ONE STEP. As for commercial casting grain (and/or scrap) I do not
know. I admit a Smith handi-heat will cast more. But again this wins
for detail work, good for filigree or the like, very nice for silver
jewelry construction also. A 0-60 Psi regulator on a disposable
canister gives you about 414 Kpa, which is not needed for just
soldering, but is still more than enough for alloying and casting as
said above. It solved my problem and I am very happy with it. This is
a fine product; I have no financial interest.

For on that torch, see
http://www.apecs.com.au/guild/lpgas.htm also for all interested see
http://www.apecs.com.au they have an excellent article on alloying in
the small shop.

It is painful to notice a repeat of various things I have seen in
print the last few days, pistol grip plumber’s torches, pencil
torches, and the like. You are in for disappointment if you get one
of those. You are much better off with that Shark torch I mentioned.
See Ebay $59 or Kent’s tools. Not my first choice, but a hands-down
winner over the likes of those. They will just not get it. Do not
delude yourself about it, or others.

As for air/acetylene torches, I assume that if this is your choice
you do want a good price on it. See these links for other torches as
well, always shop around (PS noticed some inflation since last I
looked) Prest-o-lite torch http://www.jsritter.com/tools/torch2.htm
$137.95 complete (tank extra, usually best got locally). Smith etc.
(Smith Handi-heat # NE835a complete kit $178.00, minus tank)
http://www.jandrweldingsupply.com - This last would be the first
place I would look, unfortunately the web page is under
reconstruction, you may want to wait, seriously
http://www.pacificwelding.com -

Lastly do not be shy about calling local welding suppliers on the
torch you may want. There are some exceptions but jeweler suppliers
usually do not have as good price as welding supply. (They sell so
few by comparison.) Always keep an open mind, become informed, and
most importantly always shop around when a decision is made, dollars
saved are the same as dollars earned.

30 
It is painful to notice a repeat of various things I have seen in
print the last few days, pistol grip plumber's torches, pencil
torches, and the like. You are in for disappointment if you get one
of those. ... Do not delude yourself about it, or others.

Hello Jake,

No offense Jake but I think you’re overstating the case by a goodly
amount. Those cheapo torches DO work, with considerable limitations
of course, and I totally disagree that one is “deluding” oneself if
they think that the cheapo torches are an option. I know because
that’s all I used for years, on a variety of metals, on everything
from teensy pinky rings to 50+ gram silver bracelets and large brass
belt buckles. Heck, I made our wide-band wedding rings (mine 14K
gold, her’s sterling) using a hand-held propane plumbers torch.

No you can’t cast (well or much) with those torches, no you can’t do
mini precision work, no you can’t do a lot of things. But is that the
point? I don’t think so. I think the point is that they’ll get you
started making jewellery and rather nicely too.

I respectfully point out that a lot of amazing jewellery was made
long before acetylene or LP gas or regulators or rubber hoses or any
of that stuff was around. I daresay that if those early jewellery
makers had sat around waiting for the joys of our modern gear then we
probably would not be having this discussion.

For someone in that “getting started at a minimal cost” position
those torches are a great way to begin. Of course it’s going to be
something they’ll upgrade --to great benefit to be sure-- as soon as
they can but by then they’ll know a lot more about what they want and
how much it’s worth to them to get it.

Cheers,
Trevor F.

31

Hello, I’ve been reading the various responses to the question: do
small butane torches work? The Shark Torch was mentioned by one
writer. If anyone is interested in buying one, I have one, a
propane, for sale, very reasonably priced and almost new. I’ve moved
on to a Smith Little Torch and no longer use the Shark.

If anyone is interested please contact me:

Barbara O’Neill
@Barbara_O_Neill1

32 
No offense Jake but I think you're overstating the case by a
goodly amount. ... For someone in that "getting started at a
minimal cost" position  those torches are a great way to begin.

Reply-cheap torch:

I may have (in part only) deserved a rebuff for overstating the
case. However, this still brings up the problem I mentioned. “I had a
terrible time finding the right torch for my fabricating work-gave
away one, sold one and finally got a torch that seems good.”

This was from someone with experience, they wanted a torch for home,
and due to restrictions this can cause problems in selection.

I tend to forget that I, unlike some, cut stone; you are not going
to want to cut down stone only for the purpose of having it small
enough for the torch to handle. The very first thing I made could not
have been done with a plumber’s torch, period. Although it is true
that silver work can be done without a torch, looking into the
history of southwest jewelry you discover Navajos using a flat rock
and billows. Two things you should be aware of, one is a high failure
rate in the hands of someone who has mastered it, and the other is
time involved. You can cut stone (cabochons) without lapidary
equipment. I do not know anyone who would want to make it a habit.

I tried to be balanced, if you were set on a cheaper torch I would
strongly recommend a look at the Shark Torch. Unlike a pencil torch
this will melt hard solder. This is a big step up from the likes I
mentioned, I even thought about getting one. This is not in the same
class as Smith or Prestolite, or the torch I have (the precision LP
gas torch) and some others. It big advantage is of course that it is
cheap. I posted a few days before and did admit that some work can be
done with the others. Point is some of us belong to clubs and are
involved in lapidary, as said those others are just not going to get
it. In fact when you give one torch away, sell one (at a loss, it’s
used) you have wasted money, might as well take the money out of your
wallet and flush it down the toilet. You will then need to get a
torch that is usable. If you are doing lapidary work and
silversmithing this problem is immediate, no way around that. It
doesn’t have to be that way.

The reason for that post was to spare someone from “I had a terrible
time finding the right torch for my fabricating work-gave away one,
sold one and finally got a torch that seems good.” That is also why I
discussed other options and gave links to welding supplies for a good
price on a number of torches.

I will again post on a low cost torch; you can get it on
Ebay or Kent’s tools. I have permission to use this dialog on this
torch, and wrote an article on it in the Northwestern Federation of
Gem and Mineral Societies newsletter. I will however not use their
name for this post, as I do not want them to be bothered, they are a
jewelry designer by trade and teach a class that they use this torch
in, in part due to insurance. This letter is several years old, which
is why I cannot see why some advice is given, when there is a better
resonably cheap solution. To Wit:

Question, Edited:

I hope this is not a bother, but as you have no financial interest
in the matter, i.e. do not sell the item, I hope you may give me
an honest answer. I saw your Orchid post regarding the Shark torch.
I know you gave it a thumbs up, but I need to know, and this is
important, what limitations this torch may have. As for myself, I
cut rock. I also have got involved in silversmithing, belong to a
rock club etc. What I need to know is if this torch can do large
pendants, bracelets, and belt buckles and bolos. The last two, if
it struggles a bit but will do it may be acceptable if it is not in
the realm of ridiculous.

Reply, Unedited:

Honesty, no problem! The Bernzomatic is a piece of crap, wouldn't
use it to burn down my house, let alone jewelry! The Shark torch
comes with three tips, from quite fine for small stuff to large
for much bigger jobs. I use a firebrick surround when I'm doing big
jobs, which helps bounce the heat back at the object.
Unfortunately, belt buckles and large bracelets are tough with most
torches, and honestly, I end up using two of them when I do stuff
that big. I can easily do bolos, and large pendants, but I think
the heavy weight of belt buckles might be prohibitive. Now, if you
have a Bernzomatic, you can use that in one hand to keep the heat
up in the whole piece and use the Shark as the main focus for the
actual soldering. It ends up being a bit awkward, but it certainly
works, and is definitely cheaper than an acetylene set up. It is
important to use the firebrick surround, keeps the heat up,
otherwise you're fighting a losing battle. So in summary, it's not
in the realm of ridiculous, by any stretch, just needs an extra
boost of heat to speed up the process. In all other applications, I
am quite happy with it, especially due to the cost and the fine
point flame available.

As you can see this is a hands-down better choice (in regards to
some suggestions), and comes much closed to meeting the needs. For
larger jobs, you may well want one of those other torches, but only
as help. This is not of course in the class of Prestolite and Smith,
etc. but for someone trying to get by “on the cheap” it should do the
trick, its really not that bad, it dose have some limitations as
noted above. As for the problem I was trying to address, it doesn’t
have to be that way. Then again I read a post on this list not so
long ago when it was expressed that those starting out should suffer,
I don’t see why.

33 
I'm now trying to set up my own studio space. After weighing all
my options, my garage looks like the best space to use. The only
drawback of using the garage is we have a gas water heater with an
open pilot light flame. For safety and insurance reasons, I can't
see risking an acetylene tank.

Tracy,

I know I’m not the first to say this, but I won’t beat around the
bush either. Jewelry making requires these things. Propane, Butane,
Acetylene, Hydrogen, Natural Gas, Oxygen, Compressed Air. These are
the things that create jewelry. All jeweler’s are Pyro’s at heart.
Heating metal to a bright glowing red does it for us and these are
the things required to do that. Learn to use them safely. I had a
student catch her hair on fire b/c she and another girl where
sharing a lit plumber’s torch.

Now, think about this:

Butane is a not worth it. It’s expensive and the heats not worth the
price.

Hydrogen is very expensive and usually only for Plat work, high
heat.

Acetylene is mid priced, the highest heat. and you can do any gold
or silver work with the right torch tips. Down side to Acetylene is
it’s dirty and almost too hot.

Propane is cheap ,can be picked up a Walmart when you run out and
can do any gold and silver work with the right torch tips. It’s
clean and more forgiving then Acetylene and Mapp b/c of the lower
high temp. That’s why it’s the most used gas in jewelry making.

As far as Oxygen, Compressed Air, or Air:

Oxygen gives the most control and highest possible heat.

Compressed Air is cheaper because it comes from a air compressor,
lower heat.

Air gives the lowest heat and much less flame control.

I learned the hard way. I bought a Butane Micro torch, about 10
years ago. I was 17 years old and couldn’t wait to save up the $120
for the “Little Torch”. So instead I paid $70 for the Butane Micro.
I still keep it as a reminder of what happens when you become
impatient and buy the cheap tools. It will solder jump rings. :slight_smile:

Take this advice b/c I’ve seen no one else give it yet. Order a Rio
Grande tool catalog and a Otto Frei tool catalog. Both are free.
Look for the torch you’ve been learning on, I’d bet it’s in there.
If not, you’ve probably been learning on a standard welding outfit.

Also check E-bay, there are always Smith “Little Torches” on there
for $100. I bought one off there 6 mos ago for $100 with the
disposable bottle regs. If you want a standard welding outfit, get a
Victor or Smith, call welding shops and check places like Sam’s
Wholesale. Harbor Freight has a Victor set for $170 with Regs right
now, but you’ll need to get different tips from a welding shop. El
Cheapo wielding sets are good for about 1 year before something
quits working and cost about $100 plus shipping.

Just look around, but don’t make the same mistake I made and waste
your money on the wrong equipment. All you’ll get is headaches.

Bryan

34

Yo, brian. I don’t cast with propane, because I believe in filling
my kiln. I use oxy-acetylene. I have melted (with successful casts)
500 gm. of bronze(using the cutting torch), which has a higher flow
point than 18K gold. My point is that no one torch does it all. Do
you want to take your MECO torch and use it to repair a chafing dish
that’s broken at the join? Sterling or plate? Does it matter?
Should you do it? What do you tell the customer? i can fix it with a
hardware store propane torch. The discussion has been all about
control, but, when you’re dealing with silver, or larger pieces,
control equals flame size! I can solder in a heartbeat what would
take a hoke torch 10-15 minutes, AND with little or no firescale
(because I haven’t fried the metal) It’s NOT appropriate for gold. I
use a butane microtorch for lighting my cigarettes and soldering
links, but if I’m soldering silver, I grab my plumber’s torch. For
very large pieces, (you have to consider surface area when heating-
I use the plumber’s torch to heat the piece and a large tip smith to
solder- I’m talking raisings here- surface area 24 inches+, and I
avoid easy solder like the plague. I’ve done this successfully with
copper, brass, bronze, and sterling- gold would be a financial
stretch- but if I working gold in this size range, I’d want a
plumber’s torch. I’m not saying it’s quicker, because jigging up
the piece is involved, but it solders very fast, about 1/5th of the
time of a Hoke tip. Maybe I’m nuts (I hope the metallurgists will
weigh in) but from my basic understanding of metal- the longer you
are heating it , the greater your chances are for oxygen
contamination and fire scale, and my experience has born that out.
So- for an entry level jeweler who (because of materials costs) is
going to working primarily in silver(or brass and copper), a
plumber’s torch is the way to go.

Ciao
Gail