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Customer is going to test my limits


I have a customer that is going to test my limits. He wishes to have
a yellow gold (thick in depth and size) go from knuckle to bottom of
finger in a size 13. Then he wants a rose gold cross coming out of
the yellow gold. Then he wants an infinity sign going around the
cross (not just laid on top but actually coming from underneath) and
then he wants a one carat diamond in the center of the cross) Now by
my calcualtions with the infinity sign going around the cross would
that not cross in the center of the cross? I have not been able to
draw it any other way. Therefore where should the diamond go? And
what on earth have I gotten myself into? Any help you can give me
(even to tell me it is a job for a master gunner) please send my way.

Thanks Leslie


Leslie - i for one can only say well, it’s rather difficult to deal
with situations like this but if you cant come up w/a soloution 'ill
be happy to take the challenge refer him to me

best regards goo


With the cross, the infinity symbol and the diamond setting all in
the same place, it seems to me that the diamond setting actually
makes things simpler (unless I’ve completely got the wrong end of
the stick). Setting the diamond in the middle of the metalwork
junctions means that you can make the cross out of four pieces of
rose gold that appear to join underneath the diamond. Similarly with
the infinity sign. It can be made out of two pieces, one that goes
around the top of the cross and one around the bottom and the two
appear to cross (diagonally) underneath the diamond. Does this make



if you aren’t good at rendering there are a lot of open source 3d
graphics programmes that download and install quickly and are great
for conceptual drawings of layered items. I have one on another
computer that I found on google’s extensions ( i think) when I set
it up later today i’ll email you the exact name of the app, however
you can look for it yourself on the www. There are bimetal sheets you
can get, unfortunately though of karat gold bonded to fine silver ( a
hoover and strong product )- not what your customer wants- that is
carvable and excellent for 3D looking engraving work which could, if
the metals were right provide the appearance of the infinity symbol
and cross design he wants…otherwise have him draw his idea and
rework it into what you know about fabrication…and don’t take jobs
that are beyond your scope of skills…that said…you can do it, even
if it involves solder inlay of the rose gold ( inlay rose gold solder
into a carved out image of… ) onto the metal for the band and set
the diamond flush at the point the customer desires it…

A tip: limit your consultation with the guy to one hour @ whatever
your rate is, and then deduct that amount if he goes through with
your fabricating the piece for him…otherwise your time is not lost,
and he realizes that service is service and costs money…unless you
give your time away…which, in business, is not a way to get ahead
nor turn a profit…

Sounds like though from your description you’ll need to do some
piercing to have the rose gold “coming out of” the yellow, and for
the infinity symbol to go round the whole motif…the thick band is
actually an asset as you’ll have the depth you need to flush set
accent diamond(s), and get a deposit on the full price of custom
job, gold required and the estimated labour time…before you spend
more time in dreading the job…and if it’s dread you feel maybe
sub-contract it out to an engraver that has more
experience…alternatively that 3d rendering app will allow you to
produce and show the customer how you have to execute the design…


And what on earth have I gotten myself into? Any help you can give
me (even to tell me it is a job for a master gunner) please send my

I’ll second that, Leslie ;} I think I have a pretty good idea of
your needs from the description, and yes it sounds like a bigger job,
but it doesn’t need to drive you nuts. First off, you have three
elements - cross, eternity and diamond. I would probably make the
cross and eternity, even if it’s in light cardboard, and then either
use the diamond or a 6.5mm cz if it’s not there yet. Then you can
just juggle them and show the customer how dumb his idea is - again,
;}. In answer to your specific question, a cross has two centers -
it’s “apparent” center, where the two lines cross, and it’s true
center, which is 1/2 way down the vertical line. Crosses should be
mounted on their true center, which is to say that’s where the
eternity sign should be. The dumb idea part is that no matter how
skillfully you interweave those two elements, putting a 1 ct. diamond
in the middle of it is going to obliterate it - at best the eternity
sign will look like a cute little bow sticking out the sides, which I
doubt is the effect he wants. If I have your design right in my mind,
it sounds like you have an impossible design - impossible to do
effectively, that is. Never forget that if they were jewelry
designers they wouldn’t be here… I’d think of other things,
like putting the cross down, put the diamond on the true center, and
then tuck an eternity symbol below that - crossed lines on top,
diamond, then eternity - then you can see everything - or the cross
and diamond with an eternity to the right and left - stuff like that.
Just because he wants it doesn’t mean you can stuff three elements
into one space and pull it off - if you make the signs and use a
stone you can show him all this in person…If you put everything
on center, it’s going to be a diamond with some lines sticking out
around it, and there’s just no getting around that - draw an
eternity symbol even 15mm long, cut out a 6.5 mm circle in the
center, and you’re left with a bow tie…


My two cents: I would make the infinity sign the band and have it
"hold" the diamond with the two loop ends. The narrow part of the
infinity will behind the finger and the (slightly elongated) loops
could come up (narrowing in depth to accommodate the thickness of
the cross) go over the shorter horizontal cross’s bar and touch
either side of the diamond.

Oddly, I can visualize this but I know my description sounds
confusing as hell.



Hi Leslie

It sounds to me, based on your description, that you should look
into having someone do this up using CAD. With the layering of the
components, CAD is perfect for creating separate pieces that can be
cast in the different colors, and then assembled like pieces in a
puzzle. There are companies out there that, if you send them a basic
sketch, will design the piece on CAD, and send you back a computer
rendered image of what the piece will look like when it is done. Most
will even carve the wax model for you as well. From there, it is
cast, assemble and set.

Good Luck

Dave Mereski



Make sure you get a deposit before starting any work. I’d even
suggest getting a deposit to start a drawing so this guy doesn’t
waste your time. I’d give him a quote and make it a little higher
than you think it should be just in case.

When I was in retail, we had some experience with customers with
"lofty design plans" for the perfect piece that they wanted. We went
through the basics of sketching, researching materials, and would
come up with a very accurate estimate and they would run the other
way. What we estimated at a $2,500 custom handmade piece they wanted
to pay $750.

Make sure this guy knows what he’s in for before you spend time with
drawings and research which might be all for naught. Sorry if this
has already been covered and I’m telling you stuff you already know!

Remember that your time is valuable, even the time you spend
estimating and researching a potential custom job.



Does any one have a picture? So that this dumb hollander

by my calcualtions with the infinity sign going around the cross
would that not cross in the center of the cross? I have not been
able to draw it any other way. Therefore where should the diamond

No, the crosspiece on a cross is 1/3 of the way down the bar. The
infinity is 1/2 of the way down the bar. That leaves the actual
crosspiece or between the crosspiece and the X of the infinity for
the diamond. (Although I will admit that this design would probably
look better on a tattoo than on a ring. Good luck!!)

BBR - Sandi Graves
Stormcloud Trading (Beadstorm)
St Paul, Minnesota