hello, i’m looking for guidance on creating a cone that i can solder

to a ring and set a stone in. what is the easiest and most effective

method?

Isn’t sitting down and figuring out the answer to conundrums like

this part of the magic and wonder of being a jeweler? Do you really

want someone else’s way of doing it? Wouldn’t it be better to have

your own unique approach?

If I was faced with this thought, I would draw it out first in my

sketchbook, then figure out how big I wanted it to be and then make

a model out of paper. Play around with it for a while, then go from

there. I apologize if this doesn’t exactly answer your question, but

it was my first reaction when I read your post. This is also how my

mentor taught me to figure out the answers to my jewelry problems,

and it always lead to some wonderful new discoveries.

Good luck…

Jessi Frenkel

Can you be more specific about cone size ?

Leonid Surpin.

I seem to remember Tim McCreight’s book, The Complete Metalsmith, has

formulas for various things in the back of the book, including how to

make a cone. Maybe someone can confirm.

I’m going to have to disagree with Jessi. I was hoping someone would

offer some helpful insights on this.

I have tried many times to make a cone. There is some geometry in

the lay-out. I now have patterns that yield the correct size and

proportion between my narrow and wide part. But it took some

figuring and help getting patterns in a workshop.

I have struggled with joining the sides for soldering. I have sorta

figured that out. But its not easy. Even after reading several how

to do instructions.

My problem is getting the cone all straightened out and smooth

looking after it is soldered. I have even had custom pointed

mandrels made to help in this process. But my cones are still a bit

lumpy.

My experience and experimentation has shown me cones are tricky

little devils to make. All hints, ideas, thoughts gladly accepted,

so I can experiment some more and figure it all out.

Carla

www.carlamfox.com

Please see following on how to make a specific sized cone. I use it

in my classes.

To make a cone, you can also scribe an arc on a sheet of metal, cut

it out and bend it into a cone. After making the cone, saw or file

away four or six 'V’s in the top to and bottom and prepare as above

when using a tube. You can also solder prongs or other embellishments

onto this very easy to make and versatile setting.

Cheers, Don.

Cones, like rectangles, triangles, etc., are geometric shapes and

have simple mathematical solutions. There is no reason to suffer

through experimentation on something like this! One of my favorite

books on jewelry making is called Contemporary Jewelry, by Philip

Morton. I got the 1976 edition a few years ago at a library sale for

$1.

He outlines an excellent and very practical way to make cones in the

appendix of the book. I paraphrase him heRe:

Draw a life size profile elevation of the cone (ie. if the cone is

closed at the small end this “profile elevation” will look like a

triangle). Get out your dividers and set one point in the top of the

triangle (the closed end). Open the dividers until they meet the

bottom edge of the triangle. Start to scribe an arc about four times

longer than the base of the triangle (or the diameter of the opening

of the cone). Take the diameter of the cone and multiply it by 3.14.

This will give you the exact circumference of the opening of the

cone, and it is how long the arc needs to be. Step off the distance

by setting the dividers at a small dimension like 2mm along the arc.

When you get to the correct circumference, use a straight edge to

connect that point to the original point of the cone. Cut this shape

out, excluding the original profile elevation, and roll it up to get

your cone.

Obviously, you have to take into account the gauge of your metal and

all of that. It’s a little different if you want a truncated cone

(like for a crown setting). You start out with a drawing of the

truncated cone, but use a straight edge to follow the walls up to

where the lines would meet. That is the point at which you set the

dividers to draw your arcs. Apart from that, the process is the

same.

Hope this makes sense! If you need drawings let me know and I’ll put

them in my blog.

Lena Marie Echelle

`Isn't sitting down and figuring out the answer to conundrums like this part of the magic and wonder of being a jeweler?`

I had a nifty little DOS program that let you plug in height and base

width and it would print out a template for you. It was stored on the

drive of the computer that just died on me last week. I may be able

to dig it out of a backup disk I have, but the computer was writing

erroneous disks and making me believe everything was hunky-dory, so

it may be unreadable. If I can resurect it, I’ll post in on

Ganoksin’s FTP site, but check, it may be there already. It was

called, naturally, “Cone”

David L. Huffman (cursing Mr. Gates on a daily basis these days)

`I seem to remember Tim McCreight's book, The Complete Metalsmith, has Formulas for various things in the back of the book, including how to Make a cone. Maybe someone can confirm.`

Yes, it does.It’s toward the back of the book in the "Reference"

chapter under “Circle Divider”

Bobbie Horn

Here is how you layout a compete pointed cone and a truncated cone:

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/math/cones1.htm

it can be a little more roughly done without any math:

Strike a circle with the side as a radius. Roll a circle with the

diameter of the base along this semi circumference. Strike a line to

the point from the end of the marked circumference… This the way I

usually do it! To close small ones see “Form Emphasis for

Metalsmiths” by Heikki Seppa pages 39-40 and 95-96 Hekki suggest a

way

to close larger ones too You need this book anyhow!

http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/0873382129.htm

jesse

Carla

`I have struggled with joining the sides for soldering`

You might try using something to hold the cone in place with a

pocket in it. Say a hole drilled in a charcoal block,etc or something

of the like. Cut a small slit where the seem is to solder it

together. The hole must be tight enough to keep the piece flush

together

`My problem is getting the cone all straightened out and smooth looking after it is soldered. I have even had custom pointed mandrels made to help in this process. But my cones are still a bit lumpy`

Sounds like you are going down the right path with the mandrels. You

might try burnishing the cones after you have soldered.

It also sounds like you may be putting too much heat or too much

time at higher temps causing the metal to deform. It might serve you

better to use a lower temp solder like medium or easy.

Put two or three pieces of solder on the seam in the inside and make

sure the seam points down.

Heat and pull the solder thru the seam of the cone. Good luck and

have fun!

Daniel

Sorry all…tried to include a cone layout pic but is didn’t make

it. You can find the same layout at the lower right on page 286 of

"Complete Metalsmith" by Tim McCreight.

Creating a cone is easy, as many people have offered up formulas and

I won’t bother to repeat what I do as it is similar, depending on

how exact you want the cone to turn out.

The problem I have always had is how to join the sides neatly for

soldering, especially at the point, and then once it is soldered how

to beautifully and neatly get it back into shape. I’ve tried

different mandrels, cone shaped tools I’ve come across in hardware

stores, etc, and nothing really does a good job. I have seen many

examples of industrial looking metalwork with perfectly formed cones

and I have always wondered how they did it. If any of those artists

are lurking here, would they mind sharing their secrets?

Thanks,

Grace

Hi All;

I couldn’t resurect that file from my trashed drive but I did find

it out on the web. What’s more, it’s keeping company with a lot of

other interesting programs. If you want the cone program, it’s down

the list a bit called, naturally, “CONE.ZIP”. Here’s the web site

link.

http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

Enjoy,

David L. Huffman

`I've tried different mandrels, cone shaped tools I've come across in hardware stores, etc, and nothing really does a good job.`

With some hesitation, since I do not know the size of the cone

required and technique would be different, I offer my 2 cents.

I will assume that metal is no thicker than 0.5 mm ( 24 gage ).

First let’s understand the problem. When rough cone is formed it is

very difficult to get it into correct shape because every time you

hit the metal it gets thiner and displaced metal has to go somewhere,

and that causes the form to get even more distorted. Starting with

mathematically precise shape and hoping to cajole it into the cone is

not going to work the exactly the same reason. The exact shape has

exact surface area needed to form the cone. But when we manipulate

the

metal, no matter how careful we are, the surface area gets larger,

due to stretching, and the resulting cone is misshaped. The solution

is use a work flow that would result in the required surface area of

the cone as the final outcome.

Start with the disc of the radius slightly larger to the length of

the side of the cone ( not the cone height ). Saw the disk from the

outside to the center. You must stop exactly at the center. Using

fingers start pushing sides of the cut towards each other and past

each other until the required cone with form. Anneal as many times as

required. Do not use excessive force. It is not much different than

shaping cone out of paper. It actually a good idea to practice on

paper before attempting in metal. Once you have the approximate

shape, you can start using wood or horn mallet to refine shape on a

stake. At this stage any distortion introduced by hammering will be

absorbed by the overlapping sides. When you happy with the shape,

saw through the overlap to the tip of the cone and you should have a

perfectly matched 2 sides which should give you no trouble soldering

it. After joint is soldered, the cone can be trimmed to the required

hight.

The key to the technique is to complete all the shape adjustments

before sawing through the overlap and using the thinnest blade

possible.

Leonid Surpin.

Hi Leonid;

`Start with the disc of the radius slightly larger to the length of the side of the cone ( not the cone height ). Saw the disk from the outside to the center. You must stop exactly at the center. Using fingers start pushing sides of the cut towards each other and past each other until the required cone with form.`

That’s brilliant! After reading your post, I realize that is exactly

the best way to do it.

David L. Huffman

`Start with the disc of the radius slightly larger to the length of the side of the cone ( not the cone height)`

Could you explain this further for me. Seems to me that the length of

the cone is the same as the height. I’m mathematically challenged

:-).

Thank you!

Debbie Parent

Apparently Art

Start with the disc of the radius slightly larger to the length of

the side of the cone ( not the cone height)

`Could you explain this further for me. Seems to me that the length of the cone is the same as the height. I'm mathematically challenged :-).`

Imagine that we cut a cone in two equal parts starting at cone vertex

and down through the base. Looking straight at that plane (

cross-section ) we would see a shape which is a triangle, where the

base of such triangle would equal to the diameter of the base of the

cone.

If we drop a normal ( perpendicular line ) from the vertex to the

base, now we created 2 right ( triangle where one corner is 90

degrees ) triangles.

The length of the side of the cone is the hypotenuse of the above

described triangle, while the height of the cone is the normal from

the vertex to the base of the cone. The length of the cone can be

calculated using Pythagorus theorem which states that C^2 = A^2 +

B^2. C is a hypotenuse of a right triangle, while A and B are sides.

Applied to the cone:

The length of the cone = Square root of [ (height of the cone

multiplied by itself ) + ( diameter of the base of the cone divided

by 2 and the result multiplied by itself ) ]

Leonid Surpin.

Debbie,

Remember Pythagorus and his theory to do with right angled

triangles? The square of the hypotenuse is the same as the sum of the

squares of the other two sides. Well Pythagorus or no Pythagorus, the

hypotenuse is always the longest side of a right angled triangle. The

length of the side of the cone is essentially the hypotenuse and the

height of the cone at right angles to the cone’s base will always be

shorter than the length of its side.

Sorry, I hope this helps.

Helen

UK

`Could you explain this further for me. Seems to me that the length of the cone is the same as the height. I'm mathematically challenged`

Don’t know if this will clear it up - but envision the cone split up

one side and flattened out. Now you have a cone with NO Height! But,

from the center to the outer edge is the length of the “side” of the

cone. And that becomes the radius of the disc. Hopefully this will

clear up the difference between the height and the side of the cone.

K

Thank you!

Debbie Parent

Apparently Art