for those of you who work with gold, how did you first "give yourself permission" to buy the gold knowing full well that it just might not work?
It’s been a long time since I failed to “give myself permission”
concerning a matter like this. I learned long ago that success isn’t
possible without some risk of failure. Without giving yourself
permission to risk failure, you cannot give yourself permission to
succeed. Just do it.
James in SoFl
for those of you who work with gold, how did you first "give yourself permission" to buy the gold knowing full well that it just might not work?
Well, I think having the ability to melt the scrap in a crucible and
pour into a mold, re-mill the gold into wire or sheet with your
rolling mill, gives you an incredible sense of freedom. All you’re
losing is your time, but it allows you to build your confidence,
because you may just get it right the first time too!
Laura
My observations are that many (not all) gold jewelers stop innovating with their designs and go with a more standard look. Because of the cost of their materials they can't afford to experiment and have pieces sit around in a show case. They pick safe, commercially viable designs, that are sure to sell. I often tour the gold jewelers displays at shows....and I see similar designs from case to case.
I can see exactly what you’re saying here, and I think it’s true
also- however, if “I” feel that way, maybe a lot of my customers
feel that way also- maybe a little bored with the same old thing, so
to speak… I find that when I make something in gold, that I would
normally make in silver(more creatively and daring) it sells rather
quickly. It still requires waiting for just the “right” customer…
but they are out there and they love something different!
Gold…reds, whites, greens,peach, and more! What a palate to turn
one’s back on. I love to set little diamonds in green gold. I swear
it makes the diamond look even brighter, especially as accent stones
on red/pink gold rings. Sell everyone I make! Maybe because I learned
gold when the market hit 350 in the mid 90’s. I don’t really think
about the price now.
Richard, “Stifled creativity or meeting the demands of the market
place?” I think you are right there.
I am very cynical in that I find the general public severely lacking
in creative desires and thought. Hence the lack of demand for
creative things. My market place items are “trinkets for the
natives”. The trick is to reach the rich natives.
Bill Churlik
@Bill_Churlik
www.earthspeakarts.com
for those of you who work with gold, how did you first "give yourself permission" to buy the gold knowing full well that it just might not work?
This is what worked for me. I bought my first piece of gold while I
was in undergrad school. I totaled-up the amount of $$ I had spent on
text books that semester, and made a promise to myself to spend the
same amount of $$ (or more) on materials for jewelry. My text books
cost about $350 each semester, so I spent about the same on metal. I
consider the materials I buy for my studio to be my most important
research. If I had never learned anything about gold, I would never
have that skill to add to my studio practice. Rather than being
“limited” in any way by becoming a prisoner to gold, I can consider
goldsmithing to be among a varied pallette of skills, and my designs
are stronger for it.
The cost is no joke. The first time I bought gold, I was regularly
selling plasma for extra cash (no kidding) but it is absolutely
crucial to stretch and explore as an artist. If something feels
intimidating or mysterious to you, then master it. How can you
possibly know that silver is your special friend if you have little
other experience to compare it to?
Troy
A money saving tip:
If you use quantity in one particular type of metal, Stuller will
give you “special” pricing on all other metals qualities too.
Example: If you use a combined average of 50 oz’s of silver products
(grain, sheet, wire, solder) per month, Stuller will extend you the
50 dwt price on all gold and platinum grain/mill/solder products, as
well as the 50 oz price on all silver, on every order, large or
small. There is also a 100 oz/200 dwt level, and higher levels. A
lower level (20oz / 20dwt) will be available within a month.
For details, call the Stuller Club Member hotline toll free at
1-877-619-2173, and “Join the Metals Price Club” today…
James Gilbert
Stuller Metals
800-877-7777
I make a lot more money on my gold and platinum pieces than I make
on the silver items mainly because when I figure the price of the
jewelry I double the cost of the materials for wholesale and triple
the cost for retail. Then add in a by the hour charge for the labor.
So if the materials for a silver ring cost me $2.00 I am only making
$4.00 on the materials when I sell it. But if I make the same ring
out of 14k gold and the materials cost me $60.00 then I make $120.00
on the materials when I sell it. Working in gold and platinum
involves more risk so you deserve more reward. As far as giving
myself permission to work in expensive materials, just grow up and
do it. You don’t need a sign from God or some special dispensation.
Just some guts and a little common sense. I sometimes work out the
details of an item in silver before I do it in gold, if it is out
there on the edge of very unusual.
Now to completely reverse my position on this conversation I have
recently started using the argentium silver just like it was white
gold. I am paying very little attention to what I pay for it and
setting expensive colored stones and diamond melee in it. This goes
way against the grain of for what was normal for many years. But I
am not the only one doing this and I am seeing the attitude of the
public changing about silver. People want fine jewelry in white
metal that stays white and they want some choices for less than the
price of platinum.
I work primarily in silver, and discovered that if I use 18k gold as
an accent it has a lot of impact without a lot of added cost./ I
can still bump up the price, but it doesn’t stifle my penchant for
experimentation- I can still try any crazy thing I want. I would be
very nervous to make a substantial piece entirely from gold and can
easily understand how those who do might opt for a “safe” design.
Allan Mason
Carla,
I agree with you on the observation that most gold jewelers, at
least in my area, do stick with safe, commercial, conservative
designs. The ones who have cut a niche for themselves here have done
it by copying ancient Greek architecture, and stealing each other’s
designs. No new innovative design work there.
I don’t know that the cost of gold is creatively prohibitive so much
as the personality of the people who can afford to buy it tend to be
more business oriented than artistic.
I also agree with the person who wrote that working in gold will
always produce a larger hourly wage, provided you can find the
market for it. That’s where the glitch is. I have produced a line of
(I think) very creative unique gold designs, but I’ll be d*mned if I
can find that magical market where it will sell consistently, and
I’ve traveled through several states looking for it.
I believe the answer ultimately lies in the consumer’s perspective.
Most people have been brainwashed into believing they are not
creative by the time they hit kindergarten, because creativity is
threatening to those who think they don’t have it. By the time they
are wage-earning adults their imagination is so restricted that any
design beyond the boring status-quo is too scary. It takes an
unfettered imaginative mind to appreciate imaginative art, and even
more rare to find is the imaginative mind with a full wallet to go
with it.
Perhaps it is not so much gold vs silver, as society’s right brain
vs left brain.
Christen
(Ramblings of the truly unfettered, or unhinged?)
you once again totally overlook the fact that there is little or no market in my area for costly items made in gold. I cannot sell 4 such expensive bracelets; I can sell three or four dozen of the same item in SS. No one in my area works in gold at all.
Zen Sojourner,
I reiterate that I have no idea where you are located but this is one
of those situations where you can see the glass as half empty or half
full. I would look at the fact that no one else is working in gold in
your area and regard it as an opportunity to fill a need. You look
at as if it’s a negative thing regarding your sales. Perhaps a
bracelet is not the best way for you to start getting into the gold
market. I assume you make other types of jewelry. Earrings and rings
use significantly less materials than bracelets and with a much
smaller investment you can start making up stuff. I can tell you
that as long as you say to yourself “I can’t possibly sell gold to
anyone here” than you won’t be able to sell any gold. When you start
saying “My product is wonderful and I know people will want it in
gold” then people will beat a path to your door.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
The statement that the use of gold stifles creativity demonstrates
the basic marketing flaw that many of us have faced when making the
move to gold and platinum jewelry. Even if you are making amazing
one of a kind or limited edition jewelry in silver, you have to
accept that while your customers may love your designs,
overwhelmingly they are buying based on price. They’re resistant to
anything over $150; accept it. When they buy gold, it’s for a
special reason, and will tend to be conservative designs.
The thing to realize is that there IS a market for your wonderful
designs in gold and platinum. Your customers will be different
people from those who buy your silver though. Add a gold or platinum
line, and you’ll add to your customer base. And here’s the great
part - people who routinely buy gold and platinum (the same way your
current customers buy silver) have a higher standard of living and
more disposable income.
Now would you rather spend your time making 10 pieces you can sell
for $50 each, or making 2 pieces you can sell for $1000 each? or
$5000 each? Go! Buy high carat gold, platinum, and designer gems!
They’re far more fun!
Karen Hemmerle
Boulder, CO
Continue from:
Hi all,
I gave myself permission to start working in gold when I started my
own line of forged silver jewelry. The price of silver: $7 an oz.
Gold? Some ungodly amount. Same amount of labor to produce a design
in either silver or gold, but which would you rather, double $7 or
double gold price? Silver is fun, less expensive, and I do the bulk
of my business in it. But I do sell the gold fairly frequently, too.
Another way to cut costs is to buy 14K wedding bands at pawns shops
(at our store we sell them by weight for $8.50 a gram) and melt, cast
an ingot, saw into strips, and draw down into wire. (I make all my
wire and sizing stock at the store this way.) This was very
cost-effective for me when I first started out, as I was making
little gold and had little capital. But I have worked hard and been
lucky, and now I think my time is better spent making, so I let
Hoover and Strong do the dirty work.
My 2 cents!!
Julia Newton
Wilson, NC USA
For those who want to browse some interesting designs in gold, this
site is fun to sift through. I believe it is produced by the World
Gold Council.
http://www.ganoksin.com/resources/detail-gold_jewelry_magazine-2025.html
-Carrie Nunes
and there is the reason sales suck! people that think just because
they have a little more invested think also they should make more
money! That is the standard that has created disparity in our
economy! If every one had a fixed rate of charges, be it silver gold
or platinum, then the greed factor would not be so much!
Think about it, every facet thinks money investment should negate
labor investment and pay the cost anyway…
Hello Betty,
Question: for those of you who work with gold, how did you first "give yourself permission" to buy the gold knowing full well that it just might not work?
I have to thank my mentor, James Cook. I had a man’s 10K class ring
and he suggested that it be cuttlebone cast into sheet, which was
then milled. Low cost and virtually no waste. That ring made up
enough material to create a couple rings and some earrings. I still
remember the first time I “spoke” to the gold with a torch… it
whispered back and let me know when it was too hot (“going to melt
soon”). Don’t think this strange, but it really felt like
communication. Although I enjoy and work mostly in silver, gold is
my choice.
Judy in Kansas, where the asparagus and redbuds are rousing from
their winter sleep. Beautiful and delicious!!
All,
Over many years I have fought the battle of cost of inventory versus
turn over. To this day I do not have a definative answer. Daniel
Spier’s business operation did not occur overnight. From what I have
gathered from his postings he started small and struggled very hard
to get a clientelle and store front where he can make a decent
living. Even though I often disagree with his business practices I
do not for one instance wish to belittle his success nor do I think
his practices are in any way illegal. It is a plus for all of us that
he shares his experience on this open forum. The same goes for all
whom share thier experience.
My experience says that you must take chances to be successful in
business. That means risking more of your own money to have the
chance to be successful. In the past year I have changed my business
quite radically. First of all I am now concentrating more on retail.
Secondly I am moving into finished products. Thirdly I am showing at
different venues. To make this happen I have invested money buying
finished jewelry from other artists, had other artists make jewelry
for which I have paid them, and am making jewelry myself. I took all
the profit from this years Tucson Show and put it directly into this
change. That is about 35% of my total profit for the year. We have
only had two shows since this change and both were quite successful.
I sell designer gold, commercial gold, commercial silver, designer
silver, and artist jewelry as well as my loose I am also
picking up orders to mount my stones and make slightly different
jewelry…
Take a chance. Even if it is only one piece of jewelry at a time.
Try it and see.
Gerry Galarneau, in absolutely beautiful Arizona, sunny, breezy,
and 70’s. Everything is blooming and I have too much work waiting to
be done.
Hello All!
I work in a high end jewelry store and we received a very beautiful
piece a couple of weeks ago. It is made by a high end designer, I
can’t remember the name at the moment. But it is made mainly of
sterling silver with some 18kt set with a very nice 1.5ct Tanzanite
with some ruby melee. Granted it is very nice but in relationship to
cost of materials I was shocked to see it priced at $5,999.00. We
don’t even do triple keystone pricing.
Rodney
and there is the reason sales suck! people that think just because they have a little more invested think also they should make more money! That is the standard that has created disparity in our economy!
I’ve been corrected on a similar point, and I would like to add the
experience to this discussion. The thread was about re-setting a
large, expensive stone of significance. I wondered why a setter
would charge such a large amount simply because the stone was of a
higher value than a smaller, less significant stone.
The answer was “insurance.” If you’re selling or handling more
expensive pieces, you’re also paying more insurance for the pleasure
(or displeasure, as the case may be). All it takes is one robbery to
pay for that particular education. The more you have invested in
inventory, materials, etc., the more your insurance is. The more
your operating costs are.
It’s not so much a standard as it is a necessity.
James in SoFl
Dear all; about Costs, do we have any more stories like these?
I have a similar example for you all. I was asked to remove and
reset a “Tanzanite”. It came from a ring that was bought in a store
that was promoted by a cruise ship in the Caribbean. I looked at
’this’ stone curiously and noted some strange markings, facets had a
rounded edges to them, too pure of a colour. This stone had no
defects at all, too pure for a natural stone.
I immediately spoke to my client who was replacing this mounting I
said “Edith, what kind of stone is it”? She said “Gerry, this client
paid over $6,000 USF’s for this stone and an gem appraiser decided it
was on worth ONLY $150.00”.
In fact, she gave it to two more appraisers for second opinions. The
client saw this ring under heavy lighting systems, brightly shining,
full advertising to attest its “high quality” (sic). But I treated
this setting project as if the pseudo-Tanzanite was a genuine stone.
The customer still has to wear it and overlook her misfortune of
"being taken"…“Buyer beware”…
“Gerry, the Cyber-Setter!”
I started to make jewelry when gold was $250 per oz. And I got
hooked on the beauty of it. Afterwards, my line was filled with
silver and there are so many people who just love silver. Then I
came across the tables that convert the weight of a silver piece to
the weight of the same piece if it is made in platinum and gold (any
karat). Now I can compute the cost of these pieces without making
both items, have these prices available to customers who wish
another metal other than the display item. It makes it easier to
create a great piece with no skimping. When the future prices are
good, that piece in gold becomes the next display item.
Found in Tim McCreight’s “The Complete Metalsmith” Revised Edition,
pg.181
called: Query-Known-Factor column
Best wishes, june