[ContractJob] Making a cast iron and diamond ring

Robert Ebendorf is considered one of the important and longtime
teachers of metalsmiths and jewelers in this country. Not the
sort of person we need to consign to dim recollections, and a
fine and well known metals artist as well. Here’s some basic
info:

Born 1938, Topeka, Kansas 

Taught at State University of New York - New Paltz from 1971 to 1989

BFA, University of Kansas, 1954-58,
MFA University of Kansas, 1963 
(studied under Robert Montgomery)

President of the Society of North American Goldsmiths 1972 to 1977

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe

In a recent response to this very interesting thread, the word
plaigerism has suddenly reared it’s head. While copying
(replicating) another artist’s work is most assuredly amoral at
best, borrowing from their vocabulary and making a new statement
is what makes the visual conversation of art so dynamic. If we
get paranoid about other artists copying various elements of our
designs, perhaps we should sell out of our basements rather than
galleries? To say that an artist has stolen from another’s
vocabulary is to infer that there can be no visual conversation
between artists. An example that comes to mind is that of Native
American arts/crafts. Motifs are repeated thousands of times on
forms that repeat themselves with equal frequency. Some are
stunningly beautiful, some ugly and clumsy. It all depends on the
artist/crafter. Lighten up, enjoy the thrill of creating and live
within the conversation of the give and take in art and life.

    I'd like you to consider that this "gallery-like retail
jeweler" is asking you to copy another artist's work, because
she wants you to lift another artist's unique concept. 

Hi Rene,

I am sure that is not the case, don’t assume the worst. The
jeweler has no idea who the original artist was, if she did she
would have called them directly. She simply had a customer walk
into her store and ask if she could have a cast iron ring with
flush set diamonds made, a strange request. The customer had seen
such a thing out west. My customer, the jeweler, ask me if I
could make one. That’s a far cry from bringing in a photo of an
artists work and asking her to have it copied. I would not do it
if that were the case. But if she asks me if can I design a ring
using cast iron and flush set diamonds, that is certainly fair
game and quite different from knocking off an original idea. I
think its going too far if you won’t touch a metal and stone
combination because it has been used previously, that does not
belong to anyone. I will pass Pat Flynn’s name on to the jeweler
tomorrow.

Mark P.
WI

Dear rene, if you really take this attitude of “plagiarism” to
it’s extre me then we might as well stop producing anything at
all. That attitude towards art is limiting: like saying monet was
a plagirist becau se he used paint on canvas like Goya did. For me
this whole idea of technique having some value beyond the means
of communicati ng ones OWN ideas is non-sequiter. So what, if
someone wants to experiment with flush setting diamonds in iron?
Maybe

the design incorporates other unique elements that makes it even
more interesting than the former. I think of building on each
other’s ideas and making them uniquely our own. I went to buy
some alloy from my dealer today and asked him how to get that
beautiful high carat look we see in that high- end designer
jewelry . He said he didn’t know and that the people making that
finish would never divulge a secret that took years to develop.
This scarcity consciousness is born out of minds to weak to
stand on their own creativity and base their lack of giving on
the fear of losing something. I dont claim to be a master jeweler
but I will say that most of the techniques that I know are there
because of the extreme generosity from many kind jewelers ; Many
of the ideas I have come from jewelry, good and bad, and without
the past to draw on we would still be wearing bear claws and
cowrie shells; and all of this is there to be shared by all for
the furtherment of the craft . I can show people
how to form metel or solder or even how to jumpstart their ideas.
But I cannot show them how to be creative. This is something
we cannot give someone-- it’s already been given. N’or Can
someone steel (sic) our creativity. I’m not advocating
plagiarism, b ut working in a medium that others have already
worked in does not seem strange to me, no matter how unique it
ma y be.Because for me its not the medium which uses the soul - its
the other way 'round.

                I'll leave you with a quote by Dali---

Intelligence and imagination invent nothing. They remember and
decode. Their role is not to re-invent the real but lessen the
distance between things

Peter slone(who gladly steals any idea from anyone and breathes
his own life into them,hoping they are recycled by the next
person)

Oh Dear, Rene, You weren’t kidding about your “unpopular” post.

  1. “iron or steel being used in jewelry is not necessarily
    unique”. “Necessarily”? The ancient Romans made rings of iron.
    Look up your history index for sponsoria rings. Then check out
    French practice of the 17th century. If that doesn’t satisfy your
    desire for exclusivity, you will be very disappointed to discover
    that the metal was used extensively in 17th and 18th century
    England. Hand-made iron jewellery was a significant cottage
    industry for over a century.

  2. "the use of flush set diamonds with cast iron is very unique"
    What is “very” unique about flush-set diamonds? If your friend
    is going to lay further claim to “cast iron” as her sole and
    exclusive medium for such a common form of setting, she will have
    a hard time securing her supremacy over all those who have used
    iron or steel for jewellery over the last millenia or two.

  3. “…personal vocabulary”? What sort of precious didactic is
    this? The whole concept of a “personal vocabulary” in this
    context is ludicrous. Combining a common form of setting with a
    common metal equates not to an exclusive "personal vocabulary"
    but to pretension.

  4. “For those people who make “artisan jewelry”, innovative
    ideas are their stock in trade.” I make “artisan jewellery” and
    have done so for forty three years. Believe me, if you’ve only
    had one good idea in any period of time longer than a calendar
    year, it’s time to get off the merry-go-round.

  5. “…other artists’ vocabulary… once an artist has been
    ’published’…” The language of Fine Arts has become a
    deconstructivist mishmash of misuse. These precious analogies to
    text are not only false, but misleading. The creativity and wit
    of a jewellery artist is light years away from the skills of the
    text-based author. As one who both writes and makes, I am able to
    make this simple distinction and fervently hope for some dawn of
    understanding from my seriously exclusive colleagues in the Fine
    Arts industry.

  6. “I’ve been on the receiving end of being copied
    (plaigerized)[sic] for very unique concepts and techniques which
    I’ve been recognized for in my medium.” Join the club, Rene - it
    goes with the territory. I too have been plagiarised (excuse my
    Australian spelling) but by the time it happened I’d already
    moved on to newer and better things.

In Australia we don’t have so much of the endemic Puritan
proprieties upon which much of this sort of discussion is based -
and hey, everyone knows that Aussies are all descended from
convicts, anyway. But perhaps we’re a little more down to earth
Down Under. We just get on with it. It’s not a bad way to go.
Life’s too precious to be so precious.

Rex from Oz

HI! Yes, you can solder gold to steel, then blacken, but I used
a formulae (Carnuba wax) and slow heat such as wrought iron finish. Pat

There you go, Rene .Once a teacher learns a technique, it is no
longer a ‘secret’. He is bound to impart it to all who care to
learn. Seeking knowledge from a master isn’t plagiarism, it’s
common sense…or maybe apprenticeship. If someone invents a
technique and others use it, so what? They can, at best, refine
it . The only crime here is if someone intentionally makes a poor
knockoff of someone else’s work and passes it off as an
original.

I , for example, invented the spiral, the concept and technics
of fusing different metals together. I was the first to find a
pretty rock and fasten it to metal. Oh, yeah, I also was the
first person to use the link in the making of chains. Darn! Do
you guys owe me, or what.? My point being, copying a design in
exact detail is swarmy and illegal. Learning about and applying
concepts or techniques should not be. By the way, I am an
Etruscan, and if you people don’t stop all that granulating I
will have to …well I can’t even say!!

Maggie M

   Robert Ebendorf is considered one of the important and
longtime teachers of metalsmiths and jewelers in this country. 

Before he taught at New Paltz, Robert Ebendorf taught at the
University of Georgia. I met him during a visit of Richard
Mafong’s class to his program in the spring of 1971. His students
seemed to be having more fun than we were under Mafong- a
creative and talented teacher as well.

Richard D. Hamilton
A goldsmith on Martha’s Vineyard
USA
Fabricated 14k, 18k, 22k, and platinum Jewelry
wax carving, modelmaking, jewelry photography,
and sailing whenever I can…
http://www.rick-hamilton.com

Well, I can see (as I anticipated), I took a very unpopular
position. You all make very valid points, and I agree with many
of them. But please don’t overreact to what I said. I accused no
one of copying. I was only asking you folks to at least consider
the issue, because the thread got started by Mark, who had a
customer who said "Please make a ring like the one I saw . . ."
Mark, if the customer wasn’t really suggesting that, then I
apologize to both of you for infering it, and perhaps I was
indeed assuming the worst about what the customer wanted. I
continue to think that isssues of “originality” and "vocabulary"
and “style” are important, but they are also very complicated
because they are so hard to pin down. I only meant to suggest
that it could possibly be an issue, based on how the thread was
originally presented and how it was unraveling. It’s for every
person to decide how much of an issue it is in their own work,
and every situation is different.

Rene

Rene -

I applaud your courage in stating that designers shouldn’t
plagerize - or “copy” others designs. They are, after all,
protected by common law copyrights. Obviously, putting diamonds
in iron or steel is not the issue - anyone can do that and not
be copying. It is the attempt to make a piece which looks just
like another designer’s piece - and in this case the request came
from a designer gallery, if I remember the thread correctly - and
I thought you were correct in at least warning the person making
the inquiry that he/she might be in the middle of an attempt to
copy another artist. Certainly new techniques come into being,
or old techniques are recycled, but hopefully each person puts he
or her own stamp of original thinking into the piece and doesn’t
merely “copy” another’s design. I’m sorry it appears you are
taking such heat for your kind advice - as unpopular as it seems.

Sheridan Reed

Oh, you Etruscans… Taking all the credit again. We Sumarians
did a bunch of cool stuff almost two thousand years before you
did, (Actually, some jewelry items our ancesters made are over
4000 years before you, but not so sophisticated metalwork) and
though we didn’t do AS much with fusing/soldering, etc. as you,
we did know how to do some slightly crude granulation and
filigree. More commonly We were content to melt the metal, forge
and hammer it, and cut our spirals and leaves and stuff from it,
without so much soldering the bits together so much. But we did
also do a fair little bit of what you might call stone setting.
or more properly, stone inlay. Those egyptian folks to the
southwest, round the other side of the med from us have been at
just as long as us, though less of their early work will survive
the ravages of time. And after us, but again before you, more
egyptians and the early greeks did a bunch of stuff that’s gonna
be pretty impressive even in another two thousand years or so…
by You guys were actually pretty late in the game as far as
ancient jewelers go, which explains why you got so damned (yeah,
we’re jealous, just a little) good at it. And while you didn’t
actually invent the first spirals or granulation techniques,
I’ll grant you that you sure did perfect those fibulae and
granulation to levels that will have those poor future hotshots
STILL trying to figure you out. Please also don’t forget that
only a couple hundred years after you were at your best (like,
maybe, 400 BC) those celtic barbarians up to the north, will have
developed, independantly from you, some metalworking traditions
that are, in their own way, just as vigorous and unique as your
own. They use spirals differently from you, but boy, do they know
how to use em. AND, they’ve figured out how to do enamel 'bout
then, too. Gotcha there, I think, don’t they?

Chuckle. (By the way, if you don’t have a decent reference on
ancient jewelry, the British Museum publication, “Jewellery
through 7000 years” is a wonderful resource,and is even available
in inexpensive paperback form.

Back to the real thread. Plagierism isn’t hard to detect when
it occurs. It happens all the time in this industry. There are
a fair number of folks who consider themselves designers who’ve
had only a very few actual creative ideas entirely their own,
while most of their work is derived or even directly copied from
others. It happens. That fact does not even in the slightest,
make it right. Whether a given technique is used
plagiaristically can’t be judged just by the description of the
technique. I can do plenty of flush set diamonds in whatever
metal I like, including iron, without plagiarising anyone. So
long as I’m doing my own thinking, it’s original to me. Even if
I’m arriving at similar results as someone else has done, if my
exploration of form and function and style and technique is my
own, and not simply copied from someone else, then perhaps it’s
valid. Still, if I’m a reasonably well trained artist, or self
taught with some self respect and intellegence, I’ll make some
effort to know what has been done and is being done by others in
the field, simply so that I won’t have to waste time reinventing
the wheel. It’s not only acceptable, but it’s highly desireable
for us all to learn from the work of others. Part of the whole
purpose of art is to communicate and educate. I rather like the
idea that one way to judge the artistic validity of a work is to
ask whether the piece is teaching/showing the viewer something
he/she did not already know. If this is the case, then to ask
that viewer to in future ignore those learnings is silly. But it
IS reasonable to ask that viewer/fellow artist not to just
parrot back what’s been learned, or copy the commercial success
of someone elses work. You take what others do, and learn from
it, and add it to your own experiences and perceptions, and
synthesize something new. This is the process of art. None of
us live in a vaccuum. If we’re good at our art, our work might
incorporate something learned from the work of others, but it
will also expand on it, or vary it, or otherwise take something
from it but add something else of our own to it. Sometimes, the
only one who will know for certain whether this is the case, is
the creator of the object. The simple description of gold and
iron with flush set diamonds says little of exactly what’s been
done with these materials. Someone familier with prior work will
be able to tell, seeing a new piece, whether it’s a cheap shot
copy, piggybacking on someone elses work, or whether it’s
something new in itself.

Some folks have now and then observed, “Imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery”. When it comes to art, if you want
to flatter someone, learn from them, and then make their ideas
grow even farther than they did, making something that may use
their knowledge, but adds your own as well. THAT’s respect, not
mere flattery. And if you do simply want to flatter me with
imitation, then please contact me for regarding
licensing and percentages required…

Also, for the record, the first gold and iron combination piece
I know personally was a nice spiral of alternating gold and iron
that one of the grad students at the university of Wisconsin was
doing back in '73 I think. He went from there more to straight
blacksmithing work. I played with the combination some in the
mid 70s, and about the time I learned to do flush setting in the
late 70s, I even set some small diamonds into some wrought iron
pieces as an experiment. Tried both flush burnished settings and
pave in iron, likeing the look after the iron had then been blued
afterwards. And I then moved on to other things… Still like
the look though, and every once in a while, use it again.
Burnished in/flush set diamonds are one of my favorite setting
techniques… Most recent of the sort was a piece 3 years ago
with some flush set multicolored diamond melee scattered around a
slice of meteoritic iron, which was then etched to show the
crystal structure and blued. Only trouble with it is you have to
keep the iron oiled, or that meteoritic stuff will rust… And
the oil gets on the diamonds…

Peter Rowe

From what I’ve read, it seems the common concensus is this:
while outright copying of a work, detail for detail, is just
plain wrong, being struck by an element of someone else’s work
and then utilizing that feature in an piece of your own is not.

Like Rene mentioned, as soon as I read this thread, one name
popped into my head: Pat Flynn. Just to clarify a bit of
his work was featured in the Fall 1996 (V. 16, # 5)
issue of Metalsmith magazine, and pictures acompanying the
article include many pieces utilizing iron in various ways, along
with other precious stones and metals. The photos include both
a brooch and neckpiece made of iron with flush-mount diamonds.

By one of those strange and wonderful coincidences that always
seem to befall me, I wandered into a local gallery on Wednesday
only to find both of those pieces on display. I was struck by
them, as I remembered reading the article and seeing the pieces,
and as I’d also seen several of his other pieces in a show in
Pennsylvania a year ago. To make it all even stranger, I hadn’t
read anything about this ongoing thread, as I’m just catching up
on all my reading today. So if you are in the Boston area and
want to check out these pieces, they are at Quadrum at the Mall
at Chestnut Hill, and they are stunning.

(My first post to the group after lurking for months!) Amy
Canaday

Last week I wrote about making a steel, 22K, and emerald pin.
Someone was kind enough to respond saying you could solder gold
to steel, and told what chemical was used to patina the steel. I
accidently deleted the message and would like to get that
again please, if you’re still out there! Also, if
you solder gold to steel, don’t you contaminate the pickle in the
process? Please accept my apologies for spazzing out with the
mouse! Thank you in advance.