Back to Ganoksin | FAQ | Contact

Casting Procedures Around the World


#1

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering how people work with their
casters in terms of reject castings?

  1. Do you assume that there will always be rejects and just order a
    certain number more than you need and keep the rejects? If so, how do
    you factor the extra costs into the final piece of jewellery?

  2. Do you give the rejects back to the caster and expect to have
    those pieces recast until they are “perfect”? If so, how many times
    is reasonable before you start paying extra?

  3. When I pointed out some “rejects” to my caster here in Israel, he
    said that casting isn’t always perfect (which I know) and that if I
    wanted for example 100 perfect pieces I should pay him for 200 and he
    will cast 200 and then sort out the 100 that are perfect. Does anyone
    work this way?

I’d love to hear what goes on all over the world.
Thanks,
Ariella


#2

Hello, Ariella. I have a small casting business in Maine. I have
always strived for the best castings I can provide my customers.
Working with your caster as a team will get the best results.
“Perfect” casting begins with a “Perfect” model. I spend a lot of
time with the designers I work with to explain what they can expect
from their models. This extra time is why I have loyal but fewer
customers. That extra time is made up in a little extra cost per
piece. Do you want cheap, fast or perfect castings?..as the saying
goes, you can pick two. The best way to get great castings
consistantly at the cost you know is the lowest possible, when you
want them, is to do your own casting. There are compromises that can
satisfy both you and your caster. You need a caster that can work
with you to reach that understanding.

John, J.A.Henkel Co., Inc.,
Moldmaking Casting Finishing, Producing Solutions For Jewelry Artists


#3

Ariella,

First off if your caster believes that for every 200 castings they
are going to have 100 failures I suggest that you look for a new
casting house.

Unless you are responsible for providing the waxes and they have
know problems such as air bubbles, these failures should be the
responsibility of the caster not you.

I couldn’t imagine charging someone for my failures.

Greg DeMark
email: greg@demarkjewelry.com
Website: www.demarkjewelry.com
Custom, Handmade & Antique Jewelry


#4

Ariella,

Here are my thoughts on the matter,

 1) Do you assume that there will always be rejects and just order
a certain number more than you need and keep the rejects? If so,
how do you factor the extra costs into the final piece of
jewellery? 

A 2-5% cull or reject rate is acceptable by most enterprises. The
way I used to do it when I was in the casting business, was to
deliver the 100 pieces and I personally would add the amount I felt
was reasonable into the mix, depending on the type of piece I was
dealing with. If all 100 looked good, they went to the customer. If
by any chance a couple of pieces where a problem, I would the swap
them out. No questions asked. Once the customer gave me the green
light that he/she had what they needed, the extra pieces went back
into the melt. Nothing for you as a customer to factor as a loss into
your pricing. If the caster feels that he needs to get paid a little
more, he should tell you up front. However, I never did this. In my
opinion, I am not going to give you a discount on labour because the
job was easy, but I am not going to charge you extra either when a
job requires that little extra effort. Swings and roundabouts.

    2) Do you give the rejects back to the caster and expect to
have those pieces recast until they are "perfect"? If so, how many
times is reasonable before you start paying extra? 

It’s the casters job to deliver to you the best work that they are
capable of doing in my opinion. If that individual is incapable of
delivering to you decent castings, and consistent from one cast to
the next, then you need to find another caster. Why should you pay
for the incompetent procedures of a Company or individual.

    3) When I pointed out some "rejects" to my caster here in
Israel, he said that casting isn't always perfect (which I know)
and that if I wanted for example 100 perfect pieces I should pay
him for 200 and he will cast 200 and then sort out the 100 that are
perfect. Does anyone work this way? 

Technically he is telling you that he expects a 50% cull rate. My
advice to you is run like hell. He is charging you, for his lack of
skill and knowledge regarding the casting solution. His job is to
deliver to you what you order and that is 100 pieces. Nothing more
and nothing less. Granted some pieces because the master model has
problems, may require a little extra work at the wax level or even
the casting level. But as a Caster he should know how to get around
these issues.

Best Regards.
Neil George
954-572-5829


#5

Hi, Ariella,

Like so many Orchidians, I use Daniel Grandi (Racecar Jewelry) and,
as far as I can tell, he culls out any rejects before he sends me my
order. I just regard this as part of the benefit of contracting out
my casting.

Of course, he has to charge what he has to charge to make this work.
If your caster charges, say, half as much, then it might be OK to
send you the whole mess and let you sort it out. It strikes me as a
question of value-- what you get for what you pay.

Truthfully, I haven’t done any comparison pricing, as I am so happy
with what Dan sends me. I assume I’m paying for the level of service
I get. If I’m wrong, and other casters charge just as much for less
perfect, less fully-finished castings, then I guess I’ve been
under-appreciating Dan!

In any case, it must be a pain to have to examine each casting so
carefully, and never to know how many usable ones you’ll have. My
suggestion is to try someone else who says they will only send you
the good ones, see how that goes, and compare value (not just price).
I know that, at the value I put on my time, I cannot begin to do what
Dan does for me.

–Noel


#6

Agiella,

My best suggestion is to find another competent caster. If he can’t
cast the objects properly, you should look for someone who can. A
50% reject rate is inexcusable. If he is using a method similar to
steam casting with a potato, 50% may be acceptable but depending on
the equipment used, you should see closer to 95-100%. You should
not have to pay for this casters inability to provide the product
they are charging you for. It should be right when you receive it.

There are many good casters out there, many use Neutec casting
machines. Their reject rates should be extremely low as long as all
their processes are correct up to the point of casting. They should
not be charging for rejects, only usable product. Sorry if this
seems a little harsh but even a basic casting machine like a Vic-9
should provide 90% or better.

Respectfully,

Phillip Scott
Technical Support & Sales
Rio Grande
1-800-545-6566


#7

Ariella

B"H

When there is a “one-of-a kind” wax casting to be made…I will
select who I will give it to. There are “casters” and then there are
"Casters" of value. My own fellow will make a flask just for me, a
simple, small metal flask…separate from the others…I will pay a
few dollars for this privilege, but guess what? I don’t get any
missed-castings. No head-aches or hassles. He will even “magnetic
tumble” them for me …N/C.

We work as a team, most of his work is special wax hand-carved
designs. He is well know around the Toronto community for this
attention.

Richard if you are reading, this he is known as Procast@ 21 Dundas
Sq…room 701…Vatche’ 200 castings and pick how many you want…duh?
this aint “kosher”.

If you have to reject so many times…CHANGE CASTERS,
simple!..gerry!


#8

When I worked at a trade casting shop we would offer different
levels of quality assurance depending on what the customer
required. If it was an obvious problem like a no fill or pit the
customer would never see it as we would reject it internally. If the
customer was only paying for “clip and ship” then things like
porosity could not be detected but if the customer found a problem
we would take it back and re-cast. If we were doing finished or
semi-finished work we would check for things like porosity and other
defects and re-cast. With that being said we charged for this level
of quality control and as a result we were not the cheapest casting
shop but I know we did good work. There are lots of shops that cast
trade work and if it is a good casting then great, and if it is bad
well that is too bad better luck next time. So you need to check
with your trade shop and see what their policy is before you give
them your business. And remember that there are always a certain
amount of losses in casting and a bad casting took just as long to
make and used just as much material as the good ones and you the
customer will have to pay for that one way or another because nobody
can work for free. A good caster will have minimal losses so this
should not be an excessive burden cost wise. If you want the caster
to do quality control inspection then expect to pay for it

Jim

Jim Binnion

James Binnion Metal Arts
Phone (360) 756-6550
Toll Free (877) 408 7287
Fax (360) 756-2160


@James_Binnion
Member of the Better Business Bureau


#9

Dear Ariella,

I have a casting business in Thailand and use Yasui casting
machines.

We cast for other jewellery houses.

When we say to them that we will cast for them what we are saying is
for a Price we will give you a perfect product. Anything short of
that we are Liable to replace for them free of cost.

The caster you have is probably being a smart ass.

Kumar


#10

Paying for Defects

There have been quite a few good posts on this topic.

As to the issue of whether the customer should pay for defects, it
is a truism that the customer always pays for defects. Every
production process has a defect rate greater than zero. The price of
finished goods includes the cost of raw materials plus production
costs, and that includes the cost of materials and production of the
defects. If any significant number of defects are produced, the
process of identifying and reworking or recycling the defects also
results in costs which are passed on to the consumer. There is no
free lunch.

Lee Einer
Dos Manos Jewelry
http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com


#11
   Just out of curiosity, I was wondering how people work with
their casters in terms of reject castings? 

I am a small scale manufacturing caster, I cast 500-1000 pieces a
week. I normally cast 20% more than what is ordered, and unless I
have some catastrophic problem, this will give me enough pieces to
fill my orders. I replace any rejects given back to me for credit or
replacement. My customers never give me pieces back unless it is an
obvious defect, that should not have been given to them, but got
through without being noticed.

I had a customer that would take my castings that were finished,
that everyone else took and had no complaints about and was
returning large quantities as defective. It drove me nuts for years.
I finally found out she was taking my pieces and tumbling them in
steel shot for 12 hours, work hardening them, and then trying to set
cabs and breaking off prongs. I had eaten 1000’s of dollars of “bad
castings”. When I told her she had caused the problem she disagreed
and I fired her.

The person you are working with does not care. The work would be good
to start with, and if there was a problem, your casters job is to
figure out what is wrong, and fix it.