ALUM you get it at the grocery store. Boil the bite about 30-45 min.
and only an ash rust bit is all that is left
Don in Idaho.
hello,
I would like to offer a strong word of caution about bleach and
karat gold. using bleach on karat gold can break down the gold
alloys. Bleach in any form of concentrations should not be used on
karat gold, and never on white gold alloy.
the high alkaline ph of bleach will dissolve the alloys in the gold
especially nickel and zinc. this will cause stress cracking, porous
gold that will be very brittle, breaking instead of bending.
I have always used nomal bleach at room temperature for broken drills in gold, and once with a piece of 304 stainless that didn't suffer because of the bleach.
I do not understand this post at all. Bleach will
1 - Contaminate the alloy of the piece of gold jewelry, making it
brittle and probably discolored, and
2 - Bleach does nothing to loosen or dissolve broken steel drill
bits.
Could you be thinking of some other chemical?
Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers
I’ve only read one mssg. of this thread - something about bleach.
Why a person would use bleach to presumably remove a broken drill bit
is a mystery. Hydrochloric acid does the job quite nicely - AKA
Muriatic acid, or Concrete bleach. Of course, if there’s a pearl, or
turquoise, or some other stones, they must come out. If you don’t
know how to handle acids - DON’T.
With different metals you will always have the less noble metal
corrode ( dissolve) first if you put them together in a conductive
electrolyte. Gold will always be more noble than a steel. Steel
doesn’t like chlorides in general so a chloride or hypo chlorate will
get the steel. With stainless steel you can have active and passive
states as you can see somewhat by looking at the electrochemical
series.
Electrochemical Series (Corrosion Reactions) for Common Metals.
The corrosion potential is the difference between the higher
potential and a lower one. The lower one goes first and the bigger
the difference the fast the reaction goes. Bleach would not be the
best thing to use with long immersion with a gold alloy. It will get
the drill, but free chlorine can screw up the alloy. OK with steel.
Use alum or your pickle which will be a sulfuric acid solution as a
convenient electrolyte. Steel or iron can be either passive -
positive - high on list or active negative- lower on the list a
depending on its state — generally assume to be active with a drill
or tap.
jesse
Hello,
the liquid I refered to by “bleach”, is called “LEJIA” in Spanish:
it’s a colourless liquid (maybe a slight yellow hue) that is in
every home (at least here) for washing and for cleaning floor
tiles, specially in bathrooms. When I looked in the dictionary for a
translation the first word that came up was “bleach”. The second
word was “LYE”. If both words refer exactly to the same chemical,
well, there might be a few “weakened” pieces around in my city.
However, the “lejia” totally disolved the broken drill bits, and I
didn’t noticed any discoloration on gold (white or yellow, always
18k) or porosity over the surface or soldered joints.
But Please, Please, if lye is the same as bleach, let me know to
stop using this way of disolving ferrous bits on gold.
Fernando F. Escudero, Spain.
Lye and what most North Americans call bleach are not the same
thing. Although I’m not sure which is nastier to humans as either is
not nice. (I’ve never used either on gold.)
Lye is sodium hydroxide (Or perhapse potassium carbonate?) And
Chlorine Bleach is Sodium Hypochlonite
And I think both are unkind to soft parts, like fingers.
Cheers,
Norah Kerr
Fernando,
Bleach is a chlorine compound (sodium hypochlorite solution) It is
used to clean clothing and floors and it is also as a disinfectant.
It is also corrosive to metals. It will damage nickel white golds and
other metals by what is called stress crack corrosion it creates
inter granular corrosion allowing the metal to crack along the
crystal boundaries. It probably is dissolving the drill bits by
electrolysis. It is a poor choice for this due to its ability to
cause the stress crack corrosion. There is an article about this
phenomenon at
Do Chemicals Effect Your Gold?
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
When I looked in the dictionary for a translation the first word that came up was "bleach". The second word was "LYE".
Lye is sodium hydroxide (NaOH) which would not be used in laundry.
Lye is chemically reacted with a fatty acid to make soap but would
not be used in its original composition for laundry. In its unreacted
form, it is dangerous to handle and would ruin many types of fabric.)
Bleach is sodium hypochlorite (NaClO), usually about 5%. Bleach is
used to whiten laundry and as a disinfectant. Our family also uses it
to clean and disinfect shower tiles.
Howard Woods
Looking forward to sunrise in th beautiful foothills near Eagle Idaho.
Bleach and lye are two separate chemicals. Unfortunately, they both
seem to be called “LEJIA” in spanish, so I can’t help you there. Does
the bottle have a chemical name? Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) is Lye,
while Sodium Hypochlorite (NaOCl) and Calcium Hypochlorite (CaOCl)
are bleach.
Good Luck!
Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers
Lye can be very effective to clean gold. In one shop I worked in we
used a strong solution of lye and water heated on a coffee cup
warmer to clean gold chains and rings that we didn’t want shaken in
the ultra sonic. I have never tried it to remove broken drill bits.
But didn’t notice any bad effects on the gold or its alloy
Maegan
Lye can be very effective to clean gold. In one shop I worked in we used a strong solution of lye and water heated on a coffee cup warmer to clean gold chains and rings that we didn't want shaken in the ultra sonic. I have never tried it to remove broken drill bits. But didn't notice any bad effects on the gold or its alloy
I often use lye to soak off organics and greases from the backs of
durable stones such as diamonds and corundums prior to heating or
soldering. Ditto for chains, etc. Overnight in a sealed glass jar
works fine. (The lye, of course, is dissolved in water.)
Learned this at a bench job years ago in a jewelry store. The usual
cautions regarding fragile stones and materials and remember that
lye is CORROSIVE.
Red Devil brand is what I use.
Andy cooperman
Hello All again,
thanks a lot for shedding light on my ignorance (i’m the guy of the
bleach). Now a question about ALUM. I’ve got at home a deodorant
stick (“Cristal Deodorant” is the commercial name) that looks like a
translucent piece of crystal and in the composition part of the label
there are just two words: AMMONIUM ALUM. Is this the Alum you refer
to? I have seen that there are many kinds of alum. I also have at
home a small white rod of a soft stone-like material that is used to
stop bleeding from tiny cuts one can make himself when shaving (by
rubbing the point of that rod on the tiny cuts), and i’ve been told
this could be made of ALUMBRE (spanish for “alum”). If the Ammonium
Alum is the one you have refered to, I should have to smash the
"deodorant" to powder, since I haven’t been able to find any other
source for alum around here.
Regards. Fernando F. Escudero
Sodium hydroxide (Lye) seems to have disappeared from the grocery -
hardware store market within the last year. It is used (I think) in
the crystal meth labs and seems to have been removed voluntarily in
some cases by local(?) laws in others. If you use and can find it you
might want to buy a few cheap cans.
jesse
Since you don’t say where you are-- advise finding alum may not be
much good. Here in the US you can find it in grocery stores used to
make food pickles or in drug stores for whatever. You call also buy
sodium bisulfate --(pH down sparex) in some grocery and hardware
stores where swimming pools are common. There isn’t much magic --you
just need a conductive electrolyte. If you can’t find alum to remove
the drills try table salt.
jesse
Sodium hydroxide (Lye) seems to have disappeared from the grocery - hardware store market
I bet they sell it at http://www.lehmans.com
If not, order their booklet on sources for soap making suppliers and
you’ll find a supplier there.
Elaine
Elaine Luther
Metalsmith, Certified PMC Instructor
http://www.CreativeTextureTools.com ™
Hard to Find Tools for Metal Clay
Fernando - finding alum is easy. You just need to find a grocery
store where they sell ingredients for pickling cucumbers. Alum is the
ingredient that makes the pickles stay crisp. It is sold in small
cans or jars for a dollar or so. It keeps forever.
Judy Hoch in Lakewood - thinking about planting cucumbers again this
year.
Sodium hydroxide (Lye) seems to have disappeared from the grocery
hardware store market
I bet they sell it at http://www.lehmans.com
I have been to the actual Lehman’s Hardware here in Ohio.
Fascinating place, but most of the neat gadgets were cheap Chinese or
Indian imports. The wood burning and gas powered kitchen stoves,
however, were works of (very expensive) art!
Lee Cornelius
Vegas Jewelers
The other things listed have worked for me in the past but the
easist thing I have found is sparex.
Mix up a little strong batch and warm and it usually works in a few
hours. Never seem to have problems with copper plating and I always
have some of that around.
Michael Chapman
Tallahassee Fl
It just dawned on me that during my younger years just about every
man had a stick of alum in his shaving kit. It was called a styptic
pencil, and was used to stop the bleeding when you knicked yourself
shaving. With today’s safety blades and electric shavers, I imagine
that the styptic pencil business has gone into something of a slump.
I haven’t checked, but I imagine just about any pharmacy still
carries it for the old timers. I have a full beard and haven’t shaved
at all in quite some time…but I still have a styptic pencil in my
old shaving kit. I hate to throw anything away–who knows when I
might need whatever it is? Next time I break a drill bit maybe I’ll
be vindicated for my hoarding of “useless” junk.
Del Pearson of Designs of Eagle Creek in Beautiful South Texas,
where even a guy my age (66) is considered something of a kid. Most
folk hereabouts don’t die of natural causes until they are in their
80’s or 90’s.
http://www.eaglecreekcs.com/