Certified? Just what certification are you talking about? A diploma from GIA or anyone else is just that.
Then perhaps I’m using the wrong words. How do you find a qualified
gemologist in the US if there’s no certification?
Michele (Miki)
Hi Michele,
Then perhaps I'm using the wrong words. How do you find a qualified gemologist in the US if there's no certification
A GIA diploma is just that, a Piece of paper that says the
individual mention complete a specified set of courses & passed them
at the issuing orginization’s specifications. It doesn’t mean that he
can apply the info learned in the real world. To acertain weather he
can apply what he learned you’d have to talk to him directly or check
with some folks who know him.
Dave
Then perhaps I'm using the wrong words. How do you find a qualified gemologist in the US if there's no certification?
Most of the gemologists who will be available to provide services to
you will be either employed or associated with a retail jewelry
store, or will be employed either as independents, or as part of a
jewelry appraisal business. So look/call jewelery stores to see if
they have a gemologist available. The level of diploma you generally
want to be looking for is either the Graduate Gemologist diploma
from GIA, or the FGA diploma from the Gemological association of
Great Britain. The latter is not so common in the U.S., but
represents somewhat more intense training.
If your need is simply for someone who can provide identification
and grading services, then a gemologist or graduate gemologist is all
you need.
However, if you need someone who can provice values, ie appraisals,
even if general guesses, rather than formal documents, then you need
someone trained not only in gemology, but also in appraisal
methodology. It’s important to note that while GIA and other training
does talk some about appraising, it does not yet fully teach
appraising in itself. This means that the whole range of needed
procedures to research and validate a value, so it’s suitably
accurate for whatever purpose it’s needed for, is not properly
covered in GIA or FGA training. For that training, people generally
take courses (or self study) through one of several recognized
appraisal organizations, such as ASA, ISA, and others. So you’re
looking for someone trained in gemology, with the appropriate diploma
to that effect, who has also achieved some level of compliance and
ability with these appraising organizations. This usually will be
signified simply by membership in those organizations, and
recognition by them that the appraiser is in complience with their
rules, recognized procedures, etc.
In some states, it’s a bit more than that. In these, although
gemologists are not licensed, personal property or other appraisers
must be. In order to be licensed as an appraiser in these states,
people generally have to demonstrate that they meet the above
requirements, so if you live in a state where personal properly (that
includes jewelry and gems) appraisers need to be state licensed, then
simply that state license should be enough. Such people can be found
in the telephone directory, or as you’ve done, asking people here on
Orchid for recommendations. Given that Orchid has members all over
the country and world, in most areas, there will be some orchid
member who already can give you a recomendation for someone
competent.
I seem to recall you mentioning that you’re in Florida, right? Well,
I’m in Seattle, a ways away, but I am pretty sure that Florida is one
of the states requiring state licensing of appraisers.
Hope that helps.
Peter
I seem to recall you mentioning that you're in Florida, right? Well, I'm in Seattle, a ways away, but I am pretty sure that Florida is one of the states requiring state licensing of appraisers.
Well stated, Peter. And it seems Florida is one of those states that
would require a license for breathing if they could. I’m not sure I
like it but what’s the alternatives?
Michele
A gemologist is not (necessarily) a stone/gem expert. A gemologist is a stone TESTING expert by training. Supposedly a gemologist is supposed to know how to tell synthetic from natural, ruby from spinel, and all sorts of things like that. They don't necessarily know what quality is about, or a good stone from a bad one..
Having just sat for the 20 stone challenge at GIA, I can definitely
say that the training for the Graduate Gemologist degree is more than
just testing stones. To pass this exam, one must identify all 20
stones correctly.
That means 100%. No ifs, ands or buts. The preparation for said
exam: 500 stones for distance education students and 1500 for in
residence students
and this does not include the prerequisite coursework to get to this
point. The pass rate is only 50% on the first try with many
candidates taking the exam up to 8 tries to pass.
I just have to put my two cents in here. I know there are plenty who
will poo poo the program at GIA but I’ve got to say even without
having passed my 20 stone challenge YET, the knowledge that I have
gained makes me more than a gemstone neophyte. And yes, you can
learn all this stuff in books, but learning
to identify inclusions from just pictures, NOT.
Are there any other exams out there that require 100% to pass? I
doubt it.
Ellen Lyons, MA,
Graduate Diamonds and Colored Stones
and soon to be GG.
http://www.ellenlyons.com
The solder is more diluted than the base metal. The pallion will
suck base metal into itself in order to reach an equilibrium, and
then flow into the joint leaving behind a little suction mark.
Using the pick most often means the solder has already been melted,
and is thus less diluted because some of the volatiles have flown
away. Also, solder from the pick is spherical, has less contact area
with the hot base metal, and less opportunity to suck base metal into
itself before flowing
Place the pallions in a position so that the suction marks are not
visible in the finished item, or where they are most easy to clean
out. Eg, soldering a bezel to a base. The bezel will be easier to
clean and it will need cleaning, but the base is hard to clean and
shouldn’t need cleaning after the setting. Lean the pallions onto the
bezel and minimize their contact with the base.
Placing the pallions on the inside will avoid all of the above
problems!
Alastair
Then perhaps I'm using the wrong words. How do you find a qualified gemologist in the US if there's no certification?
An interesting question, which can be expanded into “How does one to
know, if what expert is telling him, really so?”
One way it to solicit many opinions. Examine stone yourself and form
some opinion of what it may be. If perceived value warrants it, show
it to others. If more surety is required, send it to gemological lab.
If opinions from different sources coincide, that it is probably
what it appear to be. If not, more examination is required, until
discrepancies are eliminated.
I know it appears like convoluted way of doing things, but even the
best gemologists can only be 99.99% sure. It is up to the user to
decide if it is cost effective to eliminate remaining 0.01% of a
doubt.
Leonid Surpin
I agree, to a point. A piece of paper doesn’t always mean they are
qualified. How many teachers or Doctors are out there that have a
piece of paper only to find out that they are complete morons! The
same in this instance. So I agree, go check them out in person and
talk to them. You may get a gut reaction also.
Steve
Michele, et al,
I suggest you look past the diploma and see what else a gemologist
has been and is doing, his professional affiiliations and activities,
and so forth.
In this fast paced business and quickly changing world, you will
quickly fall behind professionally if you don’t keep up with the
latest via current literature, scientific journals, magazines,
books, plus attending seminars, hands on classes, trade and gem shows
plus networking with your professional peers and colleagues. Lifelong
learning is the key to staying at the top of the game, and it is a
building process.
The American Gem Society awards two titles, Certified Gemologist,
abbreviated C.G., and Gertified Gemologist Appraiser, C.G.A. to AGS
members who meet their educational and professional requirements and
who pass their examinations. Upon achieving these titles, C.G’s and
C.G.A’s are required to pass an annual examination and to
periodically test their color vision to maintain the titles, as well
as maintaining their membership in the AGS. AGS titleholders are
strongly encouraged to maintain their skills and continue their
education throughout their career.
It is correct that we have no national standards, but professional
organizations such as AGS, NAJA, etc. do a pretty good job of
educating and policing their members thru the use of high standards,
educational requirements, etc. AGS for example, requires members to
adhere to a strict code of business ethics as well as continuing
their education.
We should also acknowledge the achievements of the great gemologists
and scientists in the field, like John Koivula, Edward Gubelin, Kurt
Nassau, John Sinkankas, to name a few, who have brought so much new
knowledge to the field. Established labs like GIA are also
researching new materials constantly, but I can tell you from
personal experience working in the lab for GIA, the battle to know
what is really going on in this business is non ceasing. This can
only be achieved by constant study and research. And know that the
good guys don’t always win.
I also strongly disagree with some of the statements by John,
A gemologist is not (necessarily) a stone/gem expert. A gemologist is a stone TESTING expert by training. Supposedly a gemologist is supposed to know how to tell synthetic from natural, ruby from spinel, and all sorts of things like that. They don't necessarily know what quality is about, or a good stone from a bad one,
Most of us are in the business because we love it, and as
gemologists, we are passionate about In my career, I began
as a jewelry designer and maker, and was quickly and brutally exposed
to the wide range of quality (and cost) of I soon realized
that to progress in making fine jewelry and working with I
had to develop skills to be able to separate the good from the bad.
Gemology offered me a structured way to study, identify, and grade
gemstones–Grading is the beginning of understanding gem quality.
Testing is only a small a part of what we (I) do. In this business,
the meat of the turkey is in what and how you buy, so if you are
going to play the game, you had better know quality and a good stone
from the bad.
My 2 cents
I also strongly disagree with some of the statements by John, A gemologist is not (necessarily) a stone/gem expert. A gemologist is a stone TESTING expert by training. Supposedly a gemologist
Well, I’ve been pounded on enough. Peter said it best, and saw an
understanding. Meaning I accept that my words were poorly chosen, I
guess.
I’ve known plenty of GGs that didn’t know a quartz from a topaz
without testing it, though. I also know plenty who are diamond
specialists and/or color specialists, etc. The key word is
“necessarily”. But I didn’t mean to bash the field (as I said
clearly) - it’s just as many have said, it’s not the degree, it’s
the individual.
In this fast paced business and quickly changing world, you will quickly fall behind professionally if you don't keep up with the latest via current literature, scientific journals, magazines, books, plus attending seminars, hands on classes, trade and gem shows plus networking with your professional peers and colleagues. Lifelong learning is the key to staying at the top of the game
Yes, this is what people say. I don’t think it is that simple. Let’s
look at how I work - and I am sure many others do too. I use files
files, saws, hammers, burs, a flex shaft, ingot molds, draw plates,
an oven. There arerestrictions which I imposed upon myself: I only
work with 18K or 20K yellow gold, silver and copper (for enamel). I
do not often use stones and if I do I always use the same ones -
diamond, ruby, sphene, chrome diopside andsome others; it’s part of
my signature. I am not aware of any big innovations taking place in
the field of enamelling - the biggest change was the introduction of
lead free enamels, but I use Japanese lead-bearing ones anyway. I
have seen granulation which has been cast and granulation which has
been done with a laser welder and in my opinion both looked miserable
and fake. I understand that it is quicker to cast pieces which look
as if they are granulated than to really granulate them and so people
are producing and selling granulated pieces although they have no
clue on how granulation is to be done. As a result, everything is
looking alike because this so-called innovation actively destroys
individual craftsmanship and artistry. I would not call this
progress, as it is undeniable that something of extreme value is
being destroyed.
Alicia