Big Fish Doesn't Pay - what to do?

Jewelry Discussion
21 
I am the new editor of my local metals guild newsletter. I'm
putting together only my second issue, and the board has informed
me of an article in the works, apparently about a gallery show put
on by a member. Now, 7 or 8 years ago, this member had a gallery,
and I gave her some work on consignment. She was very slow to pay,
and things went from bad to worse. Ultimately, she closed her
gallery, screwing me out of money I could not afford to loose.
Unfortunately, my bookkeeping then was even worse then than it is
now, and I was never sure exactly what was missing, so there really
was nothing to be done.

Noel, In response to your quandary. I too am the editor of the NC
Society of Goldsmiths newsletter. I would run the article in
question but, if I had any concerns I would write an article myself
for the members about your experiences with shows and describe what
members can do to avoid problems such as those you experienced. You
don’t have to mention any names but perhaps your experiences will
give others ammunition against those who would take similar
advantage of artists. In fact it seems only fair to provide both
sides of the show/exhibition/consignment business.

Larry

22

A not-so-brief opinion on this thread:

Gerry, Rex, and others who have advocated “taking the lumps”, your
point is well made and should be taken as experience talking.
However, I’ve lost thousands of dollars in the past because a few
well-known dealers or merchants decided they were above acceptable
business practices- namely, honoring their agreements and paying
their bills. I worked for one diamond broker/retail jeweler who
delighted in ordering from small local suppliers and artisans, then
"losing" their invoices for months at a time. This man was actually
proud of his ability to thwart his creditors! He tried the same
tactic with me as a supplier after I ceased working for him, and
then told me that he would “write me off” as a disgruntled former
employee. I referred him to a collection agency with a copy of my
invoices, and they collected 60% after a few months; the matter was
never “taken public”, but the agency DID report to the major credit
reporting agencies. This same jeweler was later exposed by an
undercover news reporter for all sorts of rotten business dealings
with his retail customers. Now here’s the rub: This business had been
founded in the 1920’s, and this man, his father before him and his
son were well-known in local circles for their history of screwing
over everyone in their path. He also had a chain of stores, and
advertised heavily on the local major twenty-something radio
stations, so his business was constantly gaining new customers and
therefore his main suppliers couldn’t afford to ignore him-
regardless of how badly he treated his other creditors (namely,
smaller and more specialized vendors who sold one-of-a-kind pieces or
custom casting/lapidary services). He rarely messed about with his
larger suppliers such as Stuller, Southeastern, Swest, Seiko, Rolex,
etc., but then again he knew that they wouldn’t restrict his trade
credit because he had late invoices with other suppliers who didn’t
have the ability to report him.

The very sad part of this whole story is that they made a very good
living for multiple generations on the backs of their smaller vendors
who made up approximately 35% of their sales, and there was our
industry’s unspoken rule of "maintaining decorum " that they used
very much to their advantage. Eventually their greed brought them
down when they began openly ripping off their retail customers, and
they had become so slippery and arrogant in their dealings with
everyone that it did indeed take a public exposure to finally get
this man out of the business. The only way his son stayed in business
was to publicly distance himself from his father’s former business-
and he had a major hurdle to overcome due to his past associations.
Only I and a few other local artisans ever collected on money owed to
us, and only because we used the same tactics that the big guys use:
charge interest on unpaid balances and get a professional collection
agency after them- it’s hard to get new credit when you’re being
reported to the Big Three as well as JBT by a legitimate and
reputable collector. These days, most companies that extend terms to
their customers review their credit files periodically and just might
revise their terms if they see negative activity on that report.
There’s nothing wrong or unethical about it- it is a right and a mark
of a responsible businessperson who takes care of their bills and
makes sure the money they are owed is collected.

Yes, it’s a hallmark of good faith to be understanding when there
are the very occasional tough times but many times there is a pattern
with these folks- it’s very similar to the thread of galleries
closing without returning or paying for their consignment
merchandise. If you couldn’t pay your power or phone bill, then it’s
possible to arrange for a payment plan, but if you accept the service
and then claim you never received it and refuse to pay (which is as
ridiculous as some of the claims which are presented to us as
artisans sometimes), you’ll soon be without that which must have to
conduct your business. Public exposure is best left up to those who
have very little invested in the situation (ie: a reporter or an
investigator), but if you are owed money you have the right to
persue every reasonable method at your disposal to recover it. Your
creditors would do the same thing, and it would be an emotionless
part of doing business- an unpleasant one to be sure, but still very
necessary.

Notice that I’ve named no names- this happened a long time ago, I
got paid because I wouldn’t roll over and take the loss. and their
"karma" nailed their patoots to the proverbial barn door several
years later anyway- but I made sure I got paid for my goods via
acceptable methods available to us all.

Cheers
Clyde

23

There is a very busy beer and wine store near where I live on a
major north/south road. Everyone passes this place. Apparently they
accept checks from everyone and anyone. If a person writes a bad
check they post a notice on a huge sign near the highway stating “Do
not accept checks from John Doe”. The implication is enough. No
accusations. Noel in your case you might state “Do not consign work
to …” This would perhaps avoid any legal hassles on your part but
still get the message across. As for Steve Green I can’t understand,
since he went public, why he would protect this persons identity.
Does he expect that he will do business with this person in future?
Are well known designers/ business people more honest? Is there a
connection between celebrity and honesty? These are all cautionary
tales with the bottom line being "cover your a… The most difficult
thing for most, it seems, is being businesslike or learning to be
professional. Nothing should leave your hands until your cost is
covered. If one persists in consigning or send things on memo to
someone with whom you’ve had no track record you asking for trouble.
The odds for things turning out well are very small.

24

Hello Steve, I’ve been reading all the responses to your postings,
and I think the suggestions have merit. The sticky wicket seems to
be do you, or don’t you, reveal the woman’s identity. WHy not let
those interested in knowing who the deadbeat is, contact you off
Orchid. No public exosure. Those who feel the need to know in order
to protect themselves, can get the

Just a thought. I saw your beautiful work at Tucson, and someday, I

hope to own one of your pieces. Judy in Kansas

25

After reading Gerry G.'s, Lee Einer’s and others responses about
letting it go I think they are right. For Noel and Steve, what might
help, at least personally, is to see the person whom you feel has
wronged you in person. It may not help financially but at least it
might resolve the issue on a personal level.

We’ve all had similar experiences and it part of the price of our
education. Also reading Wm Blake’s “Yhe Poison Tree” might be
helpful.

26

Clyde, You brought up a very good path, local media. One should not
presume they are the only victim. Contact an investigative reporter
and see where that goes. You may even send a letter with details to
that reporter and copy in the offender. Teresa

27

In this thread of tell, don’t tell I think I am seeing a difference
between those who have worked or are working in the jewelry industry
and those who are outside of it. Those of us who are in the first
category are the ones saying don’t name names.

Perhaps not everyone knows about the jewelry industry ethic of…
hmm, help me out here. Sometimes it’s hard to verbalize those
unwritten rules. The risk is that a member of the industry risks
others refusing to sell to them if they are seen as breaking the
unwritten rules, such as publicly humiliating someone.

I personally have been in a situation where I was grievously
wronged. The other party did something that was illegal as well as
personally offensive. I could have taken legal action. But it was
better for my reputation in the industry not to. I never have to
tell anybody what happened, because everybody knows.

I am not someone who has been in the industry for 30 years, so I am
curious to see if others agree with my assessment or not.

Elaine Luther
Chicago area, Illinois, USA
Metalsmith, Certified PMC Instructor
Studio 925; established 1992
@E_Luther

28

This has been a too long subject now, though very useful, and
shows the opposing views quite clearly. The bottom line seems to be
what, exactly, is taking the high ground ? What one person sees as
integrity in Not outing a deadbeat can be seen as the opposite by
someone who might have been saved harm had they known. Which is
more honorable? My experience specifically, as a novice, could have
saved me untold grief had I had the wonders of this forum to help me.
The strength of this forum might, in itself, be threat enough for
those with ulterior motives to think twice about ripping off a
member. That would be sufficient, if they are aware, hopefully.
Sure, there are avenues of redress legally in the case of Big Fish,
and surely those will be taken. Along with the documentation of
the issue, perhaps mention of this forum and its interest in the
subject would help pry loose either admission of debt or payment in
part or whole. Five months is waaaay too long to dither over what
is actually theft, and I certainly sympathize with the time it takes
out of current work and profits. That’s why it’s soooo important to
educate all the novices and those who may only just be at a point
they are at highest risk for losses they cannot possibly support.
Small business is always a risk - observe DeDe’s plight during the
power blackout. Everyday disasters are bad enough. We don’t need
"terrorists", of which there are many sorts - including those out to
purposely cheat and steal from others. There is a big difference in
perspective between an established, been-there-done-that successful
business person and the one-gal struggling studio. Curiosity has
little to do with it. Depends on whose ox is getting gored, doesn’t
it ?

Pat

29

I understand and appreciate the points made by so many of you about
not letting the experience “poison” you as you dwell on it – that’s
great advice. Also, the advice about taking care about how one deals
with the issue of public exposure is good as well as
thought-provoking. I’ve honestly never thought that posting a “shame
list” was a very effective way to deal with dishonest suppliers or
customers. If they are dishonest enough to willfully bounce checks
repeatedly, and ignore bills, then they won’t be shamed by that type
of public disclosure anyway.

BUT… One thing that the original poster mentioned sent up red
flags for me and I need to state my feeling on it a little more
clearly.

The original poster said:

   She said she is a JBT member, but is not listed in print due to
security reasons. I believed her when she first told me this, but
since then I am suspicious of this story.

I am not a JBT member because I haven’t felt “big” enough to apply
yet, but was under the impression that if you were, you were
automatically listed. I don’t understand why anyone would be a
member and not be listed – makes no sense. I’ve understood that JBT
membership was there to protect our industry and enable us to feel
comfort in dealing with other members from a financial/credit
standpoint. If she is CLAIMING to be a member, but is not really a
member, then that is something that MUST be reported to JBT for them
to pursue – it weakens their ability to function credibly in the
industry if just anyone can claim membership and trade on that
basis. It weakens the ability of each of us to use them as a
resource in determining the reputation of others we wish to deal
with.

Regardless of the choice to report to a credit agency or refer to a
collections agency, I strongly believe we each have a responsibility
to help entities like JBT maintain their integrity – and their
usefulness to us – by reporting fraudulent claims to them.

Karen Goeller
@Karen_Goeller
http://www.nolimitations.com
Handcrafted and Unique Artisan Jewelry

30

Perhaps just bringing this thread to her attention might be enough to
get satisfaction.

It might also help to offer to meet her part way, if she feels that
she has a legitimate reason for being late in paying, maybe you could
suggest paying for part of the shipping or something along those
lines. I’m not saying that you should have to, or that there is ever a
"legitimate" reason for not paying on time, just that if she feels
that you are willing to make it right by lowering the price she might
be more willing to overlook any imagined transgressions on your part.
My first suggestion would be to send her the address to this board
and draw her attention to this thread, that may be enough.

I also would contact an attorney before “blowing her boat out of the
water” she might have some technicality to fall back on to justify
her actions and then you could end up with more grief. CYA, if you
know what I mean.

31

Hello E.

 I could have taken legal action.  But it was better for my
reputation in the industry not to.  I never have to tell anybody
what happened, because everybody knows.

Well I guess if everybody knows then even if you didn’t recover you
saved others from being hit. I guess that would be the point of
contention here rather than what others have insinuated as
gossip-mongering.

I still have 6 months to go for my 30 yrs in the business badge but
I have noticed a reluctance of the trade to talk with one another
about being taken or conned. I think of this as one of the trade
secrets rather than an unwritten law. One doesn’t feel very clever
and most hardly feel the need to broadcast their lack of perceptive
skills, sort of like asking for sympathy for a self inflicted wound.

Sadly this unfortunate tacit attitude is the reason a con artist can
hit the jewellery district with a pocket full of moissanite and take
their time ripping right through the trade. Fly-by-nighters racking
up bills with all the suppliers before leaving town. The list could
go on.

Tony.

32

An interesting sidelight to this topic…While listening to National
Public Radio I heard a piece about an art gallery that had closed (I
don’t know why) and their warehouse was filled with loads of art
works . When asked what they were going to do with them, the person
said, " guess we’ll auction them off." The individual who asked the
question said that those were consignment pieces and were not the
property of the gallery and would have to be returned to the
artists, and there were laws governing the handling of consignment
property. The gallery person said they hadn’t been aware of that,
but they would try to contact the artists and have them claim their
works. The narrator told the radio interviewer that he knew one of
the artists had moved to Japan and he then furnished them with her
address …otherwise they’d never have located her…which
brings up another question: What happens if a bankrupt gallery
can’t locate the artists before the creditors close in?

Anyhow, for what it’s worth, it’s a pretty widespread problem.
Dee

33

C’mon folks, this isn’t brain surgery here! If she were a “little
fish” would that change your attitude? What are you afraid of?
There are remedies that don’t have to cost alot ( getting a lawyer,
unless pro bouno isn’t one of them), don’t leave you open to lawsuit
( choose you words wisely) and don’t take tremendous amounts of time.

Contact JBT…she openned that door by using them as a reference.
Tell her you are either:

  1. going to collection and give her x amount of time to take care
    of the bill. You can also offer terms if your feeling generous. You
    can ask her to sign a statemnent acknowledging the debt and agreeing
    to put x amount per month on her credit card. With the signaed
    statement she can’t rescind the payment. OR

  2. taking her to small claims court. It isn’t expensive, it isn’t
    that hard to do…and DO it! File the papers if she doesn’t respond.
    Have the paper trail as well documented as you can , the rest of
    your story as straight forward and clear cut as you can and go to
    court for your hearing.

You might find yourself feeling stronger for understanding that you
don’t have to be a wuss and that you have options.

Once again: You helped create the situation by allowing your
desire for a sale to overcome what your common sense should have been
telling you , which is “back away”. We all do it from time time.
Get your money, Be smarter next time and let people know what your
experience with this person has been.

Personally, I think it would be interesting to see what the Big Fish
has to say . You out there? Marianne Hunter

34

There are differing opinions and solutions advanced on this topic,
ranging from getting even, to taking your lumps. Although I’m a
strong advocate of acting professionally and not slinging mud, I’m an
equally strong advocate of not being a chump. Why are there different
rules for the rich and/or powerful, than there are for the ordinary
common citizens just trying to make an honest living? Why is it the
talismans of riches and power should provide protection for them,
when those same talismans are not available to everyone?

I am of the opinion that they need be governed by the same laws,
regulations, and business practices as all the rest of us. It is
referred to as having ethics, and in our line of business, one
unethical person casts a huge shadow over the rest of us. Their lack
of ethics and moral backbone will cause a tremendous amount of
damage, not only at the level of yourself, but like a stone cast in a
pond, in ever widening ripples.

Report them to the Better Business Bureau, JBT, the state Attorney
General, and the credit agencies (both local and national). Also
report them to the Dept. of Revenue at the state level for evasion of
retail taxes, and give them written documentation for them to build a
case (your invoices). You weren’t paid at the retail level (she did
not pay you, therefore you are not a supplier and she is the end
consumer), and there are probably others who have not been paid.
Since they have gyped you out of your money, chances are pretty good
they’ve not managed to pay taxes on goods received or included the
goods in their inventory. It’s easier to get the Dept. of Revenue at
the state level to investigate them, and they have the clout to do
it. Once they’re investigated at the state level, then they tend to
get investigated at the federal level.

It’s not so much about “getting even”, as it is about stopping
irresponsible behavior. It is possible for you to be both responsible
and professional, and that is the way I would look at it.

P.S. I kind of like the Canadian solution that Tony informed us
about: a big brass band following the deadbeat around–ha, ha, ha!
Wouldn’t that be nice if we could do that with our U.S. politicians,
huh?

35

Karen, you may also find businesses in the “Redbook” which are
listed, but not rated. I have been in business since 1983, and I am
listed, but I choose not to release my financial to JBT,
even though I think they are a worhwhile organization. When I wish to
obtain credit from a vendor, I can supply plenty of good references,
and don’t feel that I need to share the info. with everyone who has
a ‘Redbook.’ David Barzilay, Lord of the Rings

36

Hi, Here is a suggestion. Go to www.irs.com and look up through the
forms for business losses. I don’t know if it is still pertinent
today, but one could have sent a certified payment demand letter.
One letter does not do the trick. At least 3 certified demand for
payment letters must be sent to the company that did not pay you.

Once you have gained your I believe you can file this
amount as a loss on your long itemized income form. If the amount
is too large, ask your accountant if it can be prorated into the
future for 3 years?

In business, there must be some form of traceable evidence which
proves you have attempted to retrieve your payment. With proper
documentation, you might be able to claim in on your insurance, but
I don’t know what that will do to your premiums.

Suing would cost you quite a bit of money, the laws differ abroad,
each country has their own legal documents and terms to contend
with, and suing may cause you added stress and heart ache.

See if going the IRS route and claiming the loss on your taxes will
be the winning turn for you. Though you may not have received your
payment, you can still try to use this lost amount to work for you
during tax time.

My penny’s worth.
Waynette
HQCE
Buyer

37

All,

How many on this forum work out of their home, garage, backyard
shop, small rented back room with no store front, etc? How many have
a fancy show room, gemological view set up, several employees at
starvation wages, drive luxury automobiles, take luxury vacations,
send their children to only the best schools? How many jump through
fire to use their talents to get a “Big Fish” out of trouble with a
repair, with a broken stone, with a rush job? How many of sit here
and can not take action for lack of funds against an irresponsible
Big Fish? How many with all the talents can not order from Stuller,
can not get into JCK, are snubbed by AGTA, all big fish?

What to do about it? We should all organize, pay dues, and become
"Big Fish" to fight the “Big Fish” who now control the market place.
Anyone of us by yourself are powerless. Together we can hire a
lawyer for staff, bring lawsuits, draft legal papers, etc. Then
watch the behavior of “Big Fish” designers, “Big Fish” galleries,
“Big Fish” promoters, “Big Fish” Independents change. If anything
the previous threads about “Big Fish” don’t pay, gallery thief’s,
consignment thief’s, illegal trade practices, should convince
everyone who love to make jewelry and but does not want a
store front that we need to organize to stop what I see as widespread
robbery and abuse by the “Big Fish”.

Are you ready yet? Or are you just going to continue getting
whipped and put back in your place? After all you only work in your
garage, your basement, your backyard shop, your closet, your kitchen
table. Third class all the way. You could not possibly expect
respect from any of the “Big Fish”.

Gerry Galarneau

38

I have been following this with some interest and have reached a
conclusion of sorts . There is an “unwritten” rule regarding conduct
among jewelers and there also are some means of adjucating wrongs .
The subject of this discussion , has mentioned the JBT as some of
her “bona-fides” , a strong part of the JBT is a collection side ,
use of JBT for , or collection of monies owed , is
industry neutral and will not affect ones standing with in our
commnity . I certainly think inquery of JBT regarding the subject
is in order , and may prove a vehicle for resolution of this
matter.

Mark Clodius

39

These things are delicate; burning bridges or risking lawsuits is
best avoided, as we all know. I think if I were in the shoes of the
one unpaid I at this point might forward some of the replies from
this thread to the offender. Seems a strong but subtle reminder in
itself…

My experience is that the “big fish” are no more or less likely to
get slow on payment or sticky on terms. Our policy is to be very
careful about terms of payment regardless of whom we are considering.
This has the benefit of being even handed with all applicants. A big
name is no assurance of good behavior in terms of money. It’s a
classic how money makes some people misbehave.

Daniel Ballard