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Benchmark on return per thousand


#1

Dear Orchid members,

Does any one have an idea about gluing the stone ( Diamond ) in the
products before setting as an additional support to avoid the stone
falling issue? Is it legally right ? Any other about this
subject Pl.

I wish to know how the other jewelers handle the stone falling issue
when it is coming when it is coming as market place return and also
what is bench mark figures normally for any stone falling problem in
terms of Return Per Thousand.

Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Rajendran.G


#2

the company i work for is an 80 year established biz manufacturing
mainly diamond jewelery. lots of engagement & weds and earrings.

we would never use glue during any production procedure, and neither
would any of the other manufacturers that work with the same
retailers. if we were discovered to do that my buyers would
discontinue the relationship.

further we basically guarantee every piece we make. if a stone falls
out and wasn’t lost most of our stores would send it back to us with
the mounting to study the reason, if there was a problem with the
model or casting. if the stone is lost we normally replace it unless
we can detect signs of abuse, and even then our response depends on
the relationship. (meaning if there are too frequent problems from
this store, or obvious poor repair work being sent for us to fix…)

april
de-tech studio (when i’m not at my regular job!)


#3

As a Diamond Setter, the common practice is to prevent such an
occurrence (falling stones) why would anyone think of using any
adhesive?? it only gives the mfg… a bad reputation. We do not glue
diamonds in anything! We spend most of our life learning how to
prevent stones from falling out.

I know of a “double security” method, its by putting the jewellery
item in a wire basket (a.k.a. tea-strainer) and leaving it in the
sonic-cleaner for a period of time. If it doesn’t come out this way,
it ain’t gonna come out at all !

If I set 1,000 stones, I can expect about 1-2 to come loose,
depending on the gold, the method of the way the beads were over the
girdle, the claws covering the stones edge…a good setter does not
expect any stones to fall out. He secures all of the diamonds with
great technical care and years of experience will prevent any
unforeseen misadventure…“Gerry, the Cyber-Setter!”


#4

Noel,

A very very BAD idea. Much better to use bees wax or something
similar which allows the stone to shift. Seeing how the stone moves
during tightening allows a chance at corrective action. Trying to
force the stone to sit straight only magnifies the stresses caused by
a poor fitting. A crooked stone is always preferable to a broken one,
and serves as an incentive for the next job.

Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modeling & Goldsmithing
http://www.aztec-net.com/~jdemand


#5
We do not glue diamonds in anything! We spend most of our life
learning how to prevent stones from falling out. 

Gerry, I’ll give you one possible exception to this. Now and then,
one is called on to repair or work on a piece of existing, poorly
set, invisible set jewelry. Some of them are made with invisible set
diamond portions that have been, after setting, assembled into the
rest of the ring or piece of jewelry (most I’ve seen are rings).
Once done, it can be the case that you simply do not have adequate
access to the sides of the channels to do anything significant about
loose stones, or the original setting work can have been so bad that
even if you’ve got access to the sides good enough to allow a bit of
burnishing, etc, you still might not be able to fully tighten loose
stones. We saw one such ring recently. On take in, from another
retail jeweler (we work as a job shop in addition to manufacturing
our own line), we initially told them it was likely that stones in
the invisible set bar that had been soldered into the top of the
ring, extending under the large center diamond, would be likely to
loosen if we sized the ring down as they requested, and we told them
it might ruin the ring, and we couldn’t be sure of being able to
retighten those stones. We warned em. Told em it really should go
back to the manufacturer (as much as anything, as punishment to them
for doing what we could tell was a shitty job of setting in the
first place). But no. You all know some such retailers. They had
to have the job. Their risk, and everything. So I sized the ring
down. Careful not to risk bending that top plate with the diamonds,
I left the ring oval. This worked well, and we returned the ring to
them with a sigh of relief. It showed up again the next day, with a
note that the customer didn’t like the oval shape, and insisted it be
rounded up. Again, we told em this was a really bad idea. They
insisted, of course. So what the hell. I rounded it up, and as
expected, virtually all the diamonds in that double row of invisible
set stones were now a bit loose. I burnished the ones I could reach
a little, which helped some, but restricted access made this not
fully effective, and our diamond setter (who’s pretty good at
invisible settings on new things) just laughed, and said I’d probably
gotten them tighter than he could. Needless to say, after a light
buffing, and a quick dip in the ultrasonic (our polisher doesn’t
know the meaning of “be very careful with this”, one stone fell out,
and the rest were even looser. Well, I got it back in, sorta, but
things were still loose, with no real fix other than what it really
needed, to be totally remade correctly, which of course the store
didn’t want.

So, Gerald, I submit to you that in this case, the little bit of
super glue I had to use to keep those damned stones in the damned
ring, was about my only real choice. Using just a tiny bit, applied
with a scalpel edge just at the sides, little enough got on the
stones so that they still appeared nice and bright, yet I know I got
enough in there that those diamonds may actually stay reasonably tight
in the ring for some time.

Yes, I know. Not a good thing all around. But sometimes, one has
no other choices. And the customer DID know there was a risk, so
this wasn’t done behind anyone’s back, or presented as fine
craftsmanship.

It’s an example of one main exception to the “glue shouldn’t be
needed” question. In some repair work, on existing jewelry where you
simply have not been given the option to do things right, at an
appropriate price, and don’t have a decent option to just turn down
the job, then sometimes glue, though not satisfying, can be a valid
choice.

Peter


#6

dear noel, you are of course correct that glues can be used for
various temporary (wax work) & even permanent, (pearls w/threaded
pegs for extra security) procedures. i was addressing the use of
glue in setting procedures, which is what the original poster
inquired about… so my reply should have read

we would never use glue during any setting procedure… for
stabilizing stones during setting beeswax would be preferable.


#7

Hi folks. Love your list babe. :slight_smile: Peter- I know EXACTLY where
you’re coming from. UNfortunately, when you say that the customer
was warned, it wasn’t the retail customer, but the jewelry store.
This sort of rush always seems to happen with the same sales people.
Other sales people will have the customers wait for weeks (gladly) to
make sure their jewelry is done right. The customers are then
surprised a week or a month later when the piece falls apart.

-Stanley


#8

Peter, While I have not had an opportunity (and hope I never will)
of repairing an invisible setting as you did, I can provide another
instance in which glue does come in handy. In years past, I had many
jobs (more than I would like to remember) repairing opal rings made
overseas…mostly in Thailand. I believe most of them came off the
Home Shopping Network or some such. Anyway, I determined that one
consistant and fatal flaw was poor workmanship on the bearings. They
were rarely flat and rarely matched the girdle of the stones.

I found that after working the bearings a bit I could get a good
support for the stones after adding a bit of glue along the bearing.
The purpose was not to hold the stone as much as it was to level the
bearing so the stone would have more support. Never had one returned
after I began doing that.

Cheers from Don at The Charles Belle Studio in SOFL where it
continues to rain like H…and where simple elegance IS fine jewelry!
@coralnut2


#9
     Peter-  I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. 
UNfortunately, when you say that the customer was warned, it wasn't
the retail customer, but the jewelry store. This sort of rush
always seems to happen with the same sales people. Other sales
people will have the customers wait for weeks (gladly) to make sure
their jewelry is done right.  The customers are then surprised a
week or a month later when the piece falls apart. 

All too common, Stanley. But I’d edit your comment some. It’s not
just “some sales people”, but rather, some of the client stores.
Some stores do it right and know what they’re doing, and make sure
their inexperienced sales staff have guidance. Others are just plain
hopeless. In the case I mentioned, it’s one of the areas priciest,
most prestigeous stores, and the Owner himself is the "sales person"
involved. However, I’d note that while they seem to send us these
unsolvable problems more than most of our other clients, at least in
this case they claimed to have had the discussion as well, with the
actual owner of the ring. Still, it’s not fun being on the "doing"
end of the stupid jewelry equation, knowing it, and not having a
practical out. As a job shop, we’re kind of the last resort. They
send us the stuff they cannot do themselves, and can’t for whatever
reason, afford to turn down. We’re kind of stuck, if we want the
rest of their business too.

Peter