It doesn't make sense to pay more to size the ring than it cost.
Low cost of an item has no bearing on the price to size or repair.
Two factors that weigh heavily in this issue are 1) cost of your time
and material, and 2) how bad does the customer want it. If you are
skilled at the bench, and have a decent working relationship with the
customer/shop, you should be able to spot those jobs that do not fit
into normal pricing, and let them know before the bill is incurred.
Then they can make a decision whether they are willing to pay they
price. If you have a store that wants to bicker about price on a
consistent basis, I highly reccomend that you dump them. If you are
good at what you do, they will come. And you can pick and choose
between good customers, and the bad ones. Bad ones are used to being
dropped, and needing to find another tradeshop. But don’t doubt your
own abilities and let stores push you around. Fight back!
I have worked on costume pieces for years, and generally found it to
be worth it. Most of it was for antique dealers. A few would pay the
price, and most wouldn’t. They always wanted to try the bit about how
little it was worth, but I always stood my ground. The cheapskates go
away, and the smart ones pay the price. Its simple economics, supply
and demand. When your skills are the supply, and you only have x
amount of hours to work, then you control the price, which affects
the demand level. If you are working alot of overtime, yearround,
then you definitly need to raise your prices. You may lose some of
the jobs, but on average, you will be making more money. I don’t know
about you but I like the idea of less work and more money. I have one
dealer who has been with me over 20 years, bringing shoebox after
shoebox full, literally thousands of pieces, and she never argues
price because we have a good working relationship, and knows that I
will always be fair and honest with her on pricing. After the death
of her husband, and then her near fatal car crash 2 years ago, the
costume stuff has dropped way off because she has started liquidating
her inventory/collection, but I am still doing all her personal
stuff.
In the auto mechanics trades, there is a book called the Mitchell
Motor Manual, that spells out labor times for each specific task,
such as 3.5 hours to replace a damaged fender. When the shop writes
an estimate for this job, each task is looked at in the manual, and
the labor time listed is multiplied times the shop rate per hour.
When the repairman does the job, if he can do the job in 3 hours,
instead of the listed 3.5 hrs, then he gets paid for 3.5 hours times
the agreed upon hourly rate. If it takes him 4 hours, he still gets
paid for 3.5 hours times his hourly rate. Hence if he is highly
skilled at his trade he makes more per hour actually worked. And for
the less skilled, he makes less per actual hour worked. This pricing
system provides incentive to become better/faster at your trade.
In the auto mechanics trades, there is a book called the Mitchell
Motor Manual, that spells out labor times for each specific task,
such as 3.5 hours to replace a damaged fender. When the shop
writes an estimate for this job, each task is looked at in the
manual, and the labor time listed is multiplied times the shop rate
per hour.
That’s how I ran my store, jewelers were paid a set fee. That’s how I
built my price book.
So, I will have to pay a 5 year jeweler to make the $500 ring, and
a 20 year jeweler to make the $60,000 ring. The fact that I am both
is really beside the point, because it could be that I'd need to
farm it out for some reason, and it WOULD be out of pocket.
Coincidentally, I was just thinking the other day that the same
concept would apply to one’s product line. I currently do a lot of
bead weaving and some bead stringing (if I want to suspend a pendant
from something other than a neckwire).
If I were to make (say) a silver/gold pendant with a stone and
granulated accents, I would pay myself x amount for the work/ per
hour. If I were to make a 1, 2, or 3 strand beaded necklace to
suspend this pendant from, I would pay myself x-y/ per hour. My
reasoning is that, if I now pay myself x-y and I were to continue
paying the same as I acquire more skills, I’m under-pricing my work.
Yet, if I were to continually raise my hourly rate to that of someone
with more skills, I would price myself out of the market.
I check when I can on other work out there, so that I can compare my
prices with what’s currently on the market. I’ll continue to do
that, but does anyone have any opinions on my type of thinking on
prices?
But I absolutely do not charge more the stone is worth more -
that's picking the customer's pocket.
No it’s not. Let’s say you take in an emerald ring job that requires
you to remove the stone and reset it after the work is done. Are you
going to charge the same as if it were a diamond? Of course not,
because the risk factor is so much higher. When you have a $60,000
stone in house the risk factor is higher, regardless of whether it’s
a diamond or an emerald. It’s higher if you break it. It’s higher if
it’s stolen. It raises your cost of doing business to take the stone
in. It should absolutely cost the customer more to deal with. Look at
your insurance policy. It should have a section in it where it covers
for loss of customer’s goods. This figure is based on an average
daily amount of value you have in house of customer’s goods. If your
average daily amount is high they raise your premium. If it’s low
they lower your premium. If you lie to them and they can prove it
you’ve got no coverage. So when you take in that $60,000 ring job
your daily average goes up (way up in the case of a lot of jewelers).
When your daily averages go up it costs you more for your insurance.
What is really sticking it to the customer is charging the ones who
have pieces of little or no value to cover the insurance on the ones
that are worth $60,000 since you have to factor in things like
insurance into your cost/profit analysis. None of this will probably
change your mind John, but it does cost you more to work on more
expensive pieces. Not charging appropriately costs both you, and
your lower end clients money.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
Good points, but then your postings are always based on experience.
That’s why this forum is so educational. We are all blessed by those
"gray beards" (loosely used term here) who share their wisdom. BTW,
I don’t have a beard, but my hair is verging on platinum… if that
counts, as some consider platinum hair to be “blond.”
I was most curious to see what others would be posting on this
topic. So far, the consensus seems to be charges should reflect time
and skill and don’t undercharge!
Judy in Kansas, where the students did not get the goalposts down
after the upset football game on Sat. night. BRrrrr, it was cold,
but the outcome was warming for K-State fans.
There is a book like that for the repair trade because I have seen it
in a jewelry store I worked for. I do not remember who published it
or where, but it exists somewhere. Maybe some of the good folks out
there will tell us how to obtain one.
There is a similarity between different bench-workers, which is, we
need to set the standard of our working conditions for ourselves.
It is about money, job satisfaction - and about investing into your
future, competition, and challenge.
If I work for the trade I do it for the experience. I also like the
ease with not handling the finance, marketing and sales. It is easier
to work for the trade when you specialize because marketing your
specialization is a big task. Trade work creates a gap between the
manufacturer and buyer, but it frees up a lot of time.
I do as much retail as trade. In retail you are affected by the
surrounding climate. You can do limitless hours marketing and
administration on top of the workshop load. It can be very rewarding
because you can become part of a happy time in a persons life
(weddings etc), but you need to balance your tasks.
There is a lot I don’t know about retail. Perhaps that will be food
for another thread.
When I first started working for my currant employer, he was only
charging $5 for a silver ring sizing because he said the value wasn’t
there (even though silver is often 5 times the work). I pointed out
to him that a gallon of paint is only $18. But if you are going to
pay someone to put it on the wall, it’s $200 to $400. Any time
someone ask you to customize what they have, they should expect to
pay a fair wage. We now charge.
Let's say you take in an emerald ring job that requires you to
remove the stone and reset it after the work is done. Are you going
to charge the same as if it were a diamond? Of course not,
That was, indeed, exactly what I said. However, it’s not the monetary
value that is the determining factor, it is the handling and care of
it. A subtle but distinct difference.
I do trade work. I do everything with my laser (have been for 4 yrs)
I wont touch anything for less than $15. Chain solders and narrow
down sizes. The stores retail it for $30 people will have the work
done. If they tell me people complain about high prices I tell them
to discount it on their end. It takes them a few minutes to take in a
repair. They are still making money on it. Don’t gouge the jeweler. I
back out material costs on anything I have to order and split the
profit difference with the store. That way the customer is always
paying for materials. I have only lost one account due to pricing. He
told me he could get sizing done in Denver for $4 I said have at it.
I have fired him twice before and he always calls me back within
about six months.
John, so basically what you are saying is that you aren’t going to
be more careful with a $60,000 diamond than a $100 one? Of course you
are. So you need to get paid more for the job.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
I’m sorry Daniel. At first I though you couldn’t read, since this is
the third time I have said it. Then I got it. You seem to be trying
to justify charging people simply to handle their stones. That
somehow
they are supposed to explicitly pay you for you having them in your
possession, and I’m afraid that’s just not going to happen. I am
responsible for goods in my possession. I accept that responsibility
without reservation. That’s what we call “integrity”. I would no more
charge a customer a “fee” to cover holding their goods than I would
break into their house. The mere thought of it sends a chill down my
spine. If it takes one hour to deal with their stone, they get
charged for one hour. That’s it, that’s all. By that logic, I should
hit up a diamond dealer for charges while I have goods on memo, or
get a fee from a car dealer while I’m test driving their car. It’s
just a lack of personal responsibility. Insurance is overhead, it’s
part of my responsibility in doing business, and I do NOT
nickel-and-dime my customers under any circumstances.
I think we’re going to go around in circles about this. But, yes,
just taking in and holding a $60,000 stone in my safe costs me money.
Granted it is part of my overhead, but my insurance goes up every day
that I keep a baby like that in my safe. So does yours, if you’re
reporting honestly to your insurance company what your daily average
value of other people’s goods you are holding in your safe. So it
costs more to work on a piece like that because it raises my cost of
doing business. It costs you more too because it raises your cost of
doing business. It also increases your risk factor in terms of things
like breakage. If you break the stone you’re out a lot more money
than if you break the $10 sapphire you took in at the same time. Yes,
I accept full responsibility for goods in my possession too. All of
my customers know that. But I also charge them accordingly. The other
thing that you seem to forget is that, and I don’t care who you are
or how experienced you are, when you have that $60k stone in to work
on, you are going to be extra careful with it and spend more time on
the piece, even if it is just a simple sizing job.
The logic doesn’t apply to memo goods, because the memo goods are
there for YOUR benefit, not just the wholesaler’s. Also it would be
up to the car dealer to charge you a fee, not the other way around,
if you want to look at it from that standpoint. If they don’t choose
to do that because it’s part of their cost of doing business that’s
fine but you’ve reversed what we’re talking about in both those
scenarios.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
I think that the liability for stone breakage comes down to the
relationships you have with your clients. My arrangement with my
retail jeweler clients was always that the person making the lions
share of the profit should take the lions share of the risk. We
would pay for recutting and that was all. Any small and fairly
inexpensive stone we damaged we just replaced at no charge. But
something big and expensive we would only pay for recutting.
This never has been a confrontational situation, all our clients are
very long term and have great confidence in our work. This policy
worked because we very rarely damaged anything. I think you need to
build up a book of clients that understand that the relationship
needs to be a win-win. They also need to understand that there is
some risk involved in nearly all work that is done, and recognize
that the shop simply is not charging enough to cover the cost of
replacing valuable stones that may become damaged.
