Hi Grace,
Thank you for asking instead of assuming. Once PMC is fired, it is
fine silver, nothing less, nothing more.
You are right that the person making the PMC pieces that break, must
have not fired them properly. Still, they can usually be fixed. I
would advise the customer with the broken piece to contact the
person they bought the piece from. They should be held responsible
and should be able to fix it.
Laura
I really can’t understand the “animosity” toward metal clay by
traditional metal smiths. It is a new technology that you have an
opportunity to take advantage of. Of course, maybe the fact that it
is “new” is the whole point. There are companies I’ve ordered
finished silver jewelry from that still refuse to put their inventory
on computer, thereby causing me extra time to find the errors when
their hand written invoice or adding machine tape and my computer
inventory don’t add up.
I’m finding two interesting points that seem to jump out at me.
Silver smiths that always seem to equate metal clay as some kind of a
short cut want people to put all the time and work into developing
traditional methods like they did, but seem to have no problem with
dismissing metal clay after trying it once or twice and not putting
in the same kind of work and time into developing metal clay skills!
I’ve been working on and off with metal clay for two and a half years
and don’t feel my skills are at a level I’m happy with yet. I think
both methods deserve time to develop the appropriate skills.
Second, the metal clay artists who’s work I most admire also have
well developed traditional metal smith skills. I think there is
something to the point that one method is not better than the other,
but that a new material opens new doors for the creation of art. For
myself, I’m going to learn both skills because I want to be an
artist, and to me that means developing all the skills I can fit into
one lifetime.
Kerry
www.celtcraftdesigns.com
No matter what you think of fabricating items in PMC, there is no reason it is not as acceptable a medium for making your metal master for casting as wax.
I think this is really a discussion of personal preferences. I,
myself, do not cast nor do much in the way of PMC. I once attended a
two week workshop in casting and yes, it was fascinating. I found the
wax easy to sculpt and the casting exciting. I occasionally still do
a wax if someone has requested something in gold. I send the waxes
out to be cast and so I don’t keep gold in my home studio nor spend
money on the necessary equipment. Besides, I think it takes a lot of
experience to do successful casting. That said, my personal
preference is for fabrication and forging methods. There is something
greatly appealing to me about the directness of these techniques and
their results. Casting always makes me think that a lot of things
could be poured into the mold to make multiples or one of a kind. It
could be plaster, resin, etc. As I’ve said, this is my personal
preference and I do not make a living from my metals. I have a great
deal of respect for those that do and understand that bread and
butter pieces probably mean casting them.
marilyn
Perhaps the standard for identifying works made with PMC should be fine silver from PMC, 24K from PMC, and so forth.
After seeing all of the posting on this…pro and con, a few
thoughts about the metal clays occured to me…
I just don’t put the metal clay working in my same mental box as
metalsmithing…
That’s based on my concept of what metalsmithing is…
I also think it’s a great media for jewelry, given it’s
characteristics…
I’ve got some silver metal clay, but haven’t done anything with it,
yet…but I’ve a friend who’s really into it, and some of her
stuff is gorgeous…
In the case of the silver clays…the final product may be in
chemical content/density a fine silver compound, assuming the firing
was done correctly, the binder burned off, etc…
But it’s not fine silver, the metal…in the metallic sense…
It’s a sintered product, and as Mr. Binnion points out, not done
in the fashion for optimum sintering…
It might be kinda hard to hammer it out to gold or silver leaf…I
dunno…can you draw wire with it…?
One thing that occurs to me…it’s a great medium for an
“orginal” creation… It doesn’t lend itself to mass production
well…due to it’s process and it’s expense, seems to me… OK,
OK…one can use it for model making, but the produced
products…say from casting, are not going to be done in precious
metal clay…
And as to labeling it…it should probably be referred to as
sintered fine silver…or sintered whichever-karat gold…if for no
other reason, than not all precious metal clay is PMC brand…
Maybe somebody will come up with a buzzword term for that…the
term “sintered” might be kind of hard to romance…
The other thing…precious metals are usually alloyed for use in
jewlery…has to do with durability, etc…
The sintered precious metals may actually have an inherent bonus
here, in terms of strength and durability for jewelry…when
compared to the pure metal counterparts in their normal form…
Gary W. Bourbonais
A.J.P. (GIA)
Hi Ian…
While the subject of metal clay is getting such a good airing I wonder if I can ask a question of the experts on the list. Would it be possible to use the 24 carat gold metal clay to reproduce fire gilding (mercurial gilding)?
Think the metal clay stuff would be unsuitable for what you’re
thinking…
Depending on which brand it is, the gold stuff has to be fired at
1600-1800 deg F for anywhere from 10 min to an hour…to burn off
the binder and get the sintering to set up… They have a liquid
silver version, but notfor the gold…
I don’t know how that compares to the brass parts you’re referring
to…
The other thing, is that unfired it is like a clay, and have no idea
whats it’s limits are as to an applied thickness…
And it has a 15% shrink factor…
Here in the US, the stuff sells for about $240 USD for a 5 gram
package (22K)…
BTW…I got around to building one of your electric coin
cleaners…
Haven’t played with all that much, mainly because it’s one of those
things ya have to watch as it works, methinks…have a few days of
vacation coming up, though, so…
The wart is only 6V DC, 100 ma…but stuff bubbles…
Thing is, both sides that were immersed were doing the bubbling…?
Regards…
Gary W. Bourbonais
A.J.P. (GIA)
James,
There is beautiful jewelry made with PMC and there is crappy work made in traditional metalsmithing techniques. Beauty and artistic expression are not defined by the materials that are used in the creation of the work.
I could not agree with you more. Fine jewelry should be judged on
the skills used not the method or materials it is made from.
Scott
Dear Orchidians,
I believe I owe an apology to many people among you.
I have received a number of responses, on and off line regarding my
comments on PMC. Rather than continuing to reply to each one, as i
have been doing, and to others who may feel the same way but who
have not written, I am happy to do this publicly - especially as I am
now informed that my post was quoted on another forum.
So here is a copy of my reply to Elaine Luther, (with some editing),
and I extend it to all others who were offended by my comments.
You are right. My post was uncivil. This is something for which I
have criticized others and I can take the criticism if deserved.
I'm sorry to have upset you and others.
However, you should know that my post which appeared on Orchid
was NEVER meant to be posted on Orchid and I have NO IDEA how it
got there. I had sent it only to Nanz - because I did not want to
engage in a debate - especially because I have not enjoyed the
tone of what passes for debate lately.
I have noted, as have several others, that Nanz's experience
with PMC was decades in the past and I can imagine that both
materials and techniques have evolved since then.
I have no stake in whether others use PMC or not, nor any
judgements about their work, certainly no hatred for the
material - appearances to the contrary. Clearly it is versatile
and very satisfying to many folks or it would not be so popular.
My objections to it, in any case, are not directed at the
finished products, which may be good or bad, but simply are my
personal response to the sensual experience of working with any
clay-like material - regardless of what it turns into after
firing. Truly, I would be as impressed and delighted by a
well-done, artfully designed sand castle as by any piece of
artful metalsmithing - but, speaking personally, I would get no
sustaining satisfaction from making sand castles. I am stuck with
my own set of preferences in what aspects of DOING the work
itself ( as distinguished from the finished product) are
rewarding to me. I enjoy the work I do tremendously but have very
little interest in the product itself once it is finished. That
is for others to enjoy. That, in a nutshell, is the entire
substance and meaning of my personal response to the idea of
working in PMC. To me (again speaking entirely personally) there
is no joy in the working with "goop" of any kind; concrete,
plaster, clay, papier mache, PMC, wax, etcetera. This is the
source of my close-minded attitude towards the material, based on
my past forays into other "goopy" materials. Rather than enjoying
their ease of forming, always a temptation at first, they drive
me mad with their mutability and try my patience past its limits.
One must have respect both for materials and for the
idiosyncratic qualities of one's own emotional and intellectual
responses to them - different for each of us.
Thanks ( to Elaine and others) for your feedback, for your
defense of a worthy material, and for the technical
As for me, I must now endure whatever brickbats come my way as a
result of that post. I have asked Nanz if she forwarded it to
Orchid but have had no reply. Or perhaps it was some kind of my
own "keystroke error" that sent it - I sure hope not.
Humbly,
MartyThis reminds me of a previous thread on whether using epoxy resin to
do inlay was a “legitimate” technique or not. Many enamelists got
their dander up and denounced the practice. Now we have the same
thing, with some traditional metalsmiths insinuating that their
skills are somehow devalued by PMC. This is ridiculous.
PMC isn’t devaluing anyone’s skills. As with epoxy resins, it is
opening up a market for jewelry products at lower price points. If
your stuff can’t be distinguished enough from products made with
cheaper materials (including PMC), then there’s something wrong with
your marketing approach.
To add to this, we have a comment from someone questioning whether
Tim McReight might have a financial stake in PMC that has colored
his interest in the product. This ad hominem circumstantial is
obnoxious. Mr. McReight has spent a lifetime educating others in
jewelrymaking and it is quite evident that his enthusiasm for PMC is
genuine if you read his books or watch his videos on the subject.
John Walbaum
“cui bono” Carla as they used to say.
If Tim McCreight wrote a book on PMC would one expect him to 'dis’
PMC? Highly unlikely. I must say also that I saw a woman at a show in
San Francisco whose work in PMC made me pause.
I’m going to p*ss off’ a lot of people with this; but there’s the
cliche “if you can’t do it teach it”. I have never met T. McC.; so
this is not directed at him; but Carla’s comment about a ‘pyramid
scheme’ and a double cappuccino prompts the “if you can’t do it…”.
I used to be an academic: English Literature. Some of the most
unreadable stuff one would ever read was written by teaching
academics. But also some of the best work came from the university
where I taught: Robert Creeley, Robert Duncan, Charles Olson, John
Barth, Leslie Fiedler, and Robert Haas who was a junior faculty
member were there. But most of those were professional writers and
were only ‘temps’ at the university.
KPK
I think your misunderstanding is that the binder LEAVES the silver when fired. In particle board the binder stays in the material. However, metal unlike wood, FUSES with itself if heated to a high enough temperature. Right? Got it?
FWIW I have a fairly solid understanding of the diffusion process
that is the physical process that allows PMC to sinter since it is
the the basis for my work. Analogies are never perfect as you are
trying to compare dissimilar items. However I still stand by the
analogy.
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
I am personally very sad to see Nanz very public termination. Elaine
Luther’s original post certainly sparked a torrent of personal
commentary, much of which was over reaction, which is what I feel
Art Jewelry did. So sad,and so unnecessary.
Internet, once again, has caused a very fine person grief, and this
wonderful Forum delivered it. That is not what Orchid is all about.
Terrie
And remember, PMC+, when fired at 1650 for 2 hours is equal in density to cast fine silver.
Elaine, I do disagree on this point:PMC simply, because of its
structure is not in any way conventional metal but particles of fine
silver ( or gold of various karats) that cannot possibly have the
same density and /or structure as crystalline.999 silver no matter
how sintered. The particles will never compact and recrystallise as
fine silver or high karat gold does without the kind of hydrothermal
pressure, we in our studios, are unable to generate - unless one has
millions of dollars of funding to dump into the appropriate
equipment to be able to accomplish that recrystallisation and diamond
manufacture, as they require related and similar heat and pressure.
PMC,by nature, will never have the workability of conventional
metals as it is particulated and recycled industrial waste that
simply -coagulates - is probably the most easily understood way to
describe what happens after the sintering process with particles in a
modified state of recombination.
This is not to offend people that are developing new and different
applications for the product, but a matter of the science of
metallic structural integrity or lack thereof as regards metal clay
products.
R.E.Rourke
Hazel,
So, I did take very seriously indeed what was said in a public forum by one of my employees, who posted under her affiliation with Art Jewelry. Nanz Aalund did not speak on behalf of Art Jewelry on the topic of metal clay, whether on the Orchid forum or in any other public venue, and she is no longer associated with Art Jewelry magazine.
I cannot believe that you would fire someone for presenting an honest
critique of a material. You can consider my subscription canceled.
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
Hi Elaine
I bought some PMC because I like to model and it seems like a really
quick way to test a design without having to go to the trouble of
casting which I don’t like to do. I would leave that to other
people. I like the clay better than wax. It’s simply another medium
and in the hands of whoever makes the finished piece good, bad or
whatever. And if I took a class I would know a lot more faster than
if I sit and experiment myself! Just some support from me! Keep up
your good work!
God forbid anyone, anywhere dare make anything out of metal without a struggle. Right?
I suspect that this may be the crux of the dislike of metal clay.
The irony is, it IS hard to make anything out of it-- well. It is
easy, as has been noted, to make “rubbish”. I know-- I work with PMC
for some purposes, and have for the whole time it has been available.
I don’t use it much, now, because, like any other way of working, it
takes work and practice to do good work with it, and I have to pick
and choose where to focus. Sadly, I can’t do everything if I am
going to do anything well.
I agree that more bad metal clay work is out there than bad
metalsmithing because of the low threshhold of entry. So what? There
is more bad painting than just about anything else in the universe,
for the same reason. No one condemns paint! And, boy, it is tough to
do good painting. Have you tried it? Whoo boy! But I digress…
I agree with Elaine-- it is a way of working, neither more nor less,
and neither bad nor good. Get over it!
Noel
Metal clay can be folded like origami (paper type). It can be joined to itself with water or slip. It can be allowed to dry and then carved. It can be fired and then formed over a mandrel. It can be enameled.
as can plasticene, and other clays rolled out finely enough to be as
paper thin as one cares to make it…look at “clay-mation” as an
example of the versatility of play-dough (although agreed play-dough
brand is a bit fluffier than other plastic and polymer clays).
RER
No, Alma,
Nanz gave incorrect and biased which is an insult to
those of us who work with this new material.
Anyone in the type of position that Nanz had must be careful with
what they say.
Now we have people believing that what she said is correct! Her
is far out of date and incorrect when discussing the
clay in its present state.
People who are public figures and have privileges because of their
visibility need to be extra careful what they say and write. With
privilege, comes responsibility. When that privilege is abused, come
consequences.
Laura
Nanz Aalund did not speak on behalf of Art Jewelry on the topic of metal clay, whether on the Orchid forum or in any other public venue, and she is no longer associated with Art Jewelry magazine.
So much for the concept of free speech in this country. If I
subscribed to your magazine I would cancel it. On the other hand this
is a warning to all of you on Orchid that what you post here is on a
public forum and it is visible to everyone—this includes employers,
employees, friends, relatives, customers, suppliers, the FBI or NSA,
etc. Think twice before sending out those posts.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
No, Alma, Nanz gave incorrect and biased which is an insult to those of us who work with this new material.
No Laura,
It is you, Elaine and the others who claim that PMC has the same
density as cast fine silver that are presenting demonstrably false
Just do a specific gravity test, you will see. It is
true that the most recent PMC products are an improvement on the
earlier material but it is still a sintered product and it can not
be be fully dense without high pressure processing.
There are many here with strong opinions much of it gathered from a
lifetime of working with metal. Some of us often disagree but we all
learn from the exchanges. So if you cannot handle an open discussion
where all are able to discuss the pros and cons of a material or
process <> go to a PMC only one where you can preach to the choir.
Otherwise stay and carefully read everyones posts even those you
disagree with and you will find that there is a huge amount of real
knowledge here and you might even learn something you did not know.
Jim
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
When comparing fired PMC or art clay to cast fine silver, you might
consider the fact that fine silver on its own is generally not
considered as sturdy enough for jewelry. Casting fine silver is
difficult and almost always results in porous metal. How many of you
ever cast fine silver
Judy Hoch