A note on education, jewelry and online manners

Jewelry Discussion
21

I really do love these emotional posting where we migrate from the
subject at hand to personal attacts.

I myself, and I am only speaking about myself, will never reach my
full potential as a metal artist never going to school to get a
degree in a subject related to “the art”. I say will never because I
don’t have that knowledge base and will notget it due to time,
inclination, and financial ability to do so.

Schooling gives you a solid foundation, technique knowledge and a
base skill level. You can be taught things quickly from experienced
people that on your own would take much, much, much longer. What do
you think this forum is??? People asking questions hoping to get
answers from someone who has that knowledge base. I am completely
fascinated when questions are asked and the response comes from
someone who has a very apparent level of education far exceeding
mine in metallurgy or chemistry.

Your ability to create that idea in your head is certainly limited
by what your skill and knowledge level is.

Can most of us be some kind of artists without schooling, that is
probably yes…can most of us be exceptional without schooling,
unlikely. I don’t remember the original email, but I do become
aggitated on people trying to validate and/or give themselves a
reasonwhy not to do something. You should be “judged” on what you
create, not on your educational level. I do believe that your
educational level will ehance what you are able to create.

22

My only question to those who put down those who do not have a
degree is #1 how many competitions have you won in your career.
Unless you have broken the glass celling on at least one then you are
no better then those who have no formal education in this field…

Your ego may be bigger but you do not make more money or have more
clients who love your work then the rest of us lowly people who make
a living at our craft/designs/work/ fields and more then likely have
not spent the time in the real world to realize that making a living
is more then talk…

I have done all of the above and have been acclaimed internationally
for my good works, have been featured in People Magazine and on the
Oprah Winfree Show, and still have more to learn then I will ever be
able to do in my life time… it is not about what I know but about
what I can create for the betterment of others… not myself… I have
taught at a collage and never been to collage to study. Does not mean
I have not put in the hours to learn my trade.

This said I think that the subject on education should be dropped as
each one of us no matter how much we paid for our education have had
a good education enough to make a decent living and that is more
then most collage graduates today can say for them selves…

Lets move on to more positive things about how to make things better
and how to support each other in our works and how to promote what
we do to the general public… We are all in this to make money and to
make a living and to have fun while doing it… Not to try to be
BIGGER the the others in our field… as the true test is 100 years
after we are gone is your work still sought after???.. then you
might be the best… If not then you are otherwise just one of us
pions… :slight_smile: Truth know you will never know for sure in your life
time… !!!

Get past the EGOS and on to the work you have chosen to do and help
others to be better then you could ever be… That is my thoughts on
this subject…

At 65 my time is short and all I have to leave is good thought about
the people I have met the advice I have given them to hopefully make
their lives better and easier then mine.

Share your experiences with others so they might be able to tach you
something you over looked or did not see… !!!

And support anyone who is interested in this field as you may never
know that they might be another Frage"

Vernon Wilson

23

For the record, even though I never took any classes, except for
basic jewelry making in high school, a class in which I already knew
more than the teacher in some areas, and even though I inferred that
I didn’t need any formal instruction for the jobs I had over the
years, I agree that is is unwise, and in some cases a mistake, to
dismiss the value of classes or structured learning. I know because
of the way I am, that I could have done just about anything as far as
craftsmanship or art, and I know enough about other people to know
that almost whatever else I could have chosen to do, I could
certainly have benefitted greatly from those with more experience and
knowledge. Thing is, the thing I chose to do in the late 80’s, well,
there just wasn’t anyone handy who knew much more than the rudiments
presented with the original RT Blanking System. Old RT himself was
somewhere in the UK, doing, I had, and have, no idea what. Frolicking
merrily with the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths, I imagine, but
that’s some seriously vague frolicky imagining there. I keep talking
about it, because I keep thinking about it, but have never found or
made time for it, of eventually providing the kind of detailed
documenting of what I’ve learned, so that people don’t have to learn
the way I did, without help.

Dar

24 
My only question to those who put down those who do not have a
degree is #1 how many competitions have you won in your career.
Unless you have broken the glass celling on at least one then you
are no better then those who have no formal education in this
field...

Don’t you worry, it doesn’t matter even if you have education in the
jewellery trade, if you dare to have a different opinion, some on
the list will still question your intelligence, even if you have won
at least one international jewellery competition.

Don’t sweat it, learn what you can, and ignore the bad elements.

Regards Charles A.

25 
This said I think that the subject on education should be dropped
as each one of us no matter how much we paid for our education have
had a good education enough to make a decent living and that is
more then most collage graduates today can say for them selves..

Oscar Wilde said “Arguments to be avoided: they always vulgar and
often convincing”. I guess I take clarion call to drop this argument
as shall we say, revealing. Education is simply an efficient way to
transfer knowledge of previous generations to the current one. If
someone want to argue that it is unnecessary and that one has to
re-discover all prior knowledge by himself: there is nothing that I
can offer, because the logic is patently absurd.

There are apparently some individuals who have to take absolutely
anything as personal affront. I am not going to dwell on the reasons
giving rise to such behavior. There are also others who would not
mind to explore the subject deeper. To facilitate such a discourse, I
added a blog area to my website where I am planning to offer my
expanded thoughts on the subject. I have always been interested in
subject of education and the role is plays in becoming a goldsmith.
here is direct link http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep7znu or it may
be accessed via my website.

Leonid Surpin

26

You know, I don’t recall reading much commentary against those who
opted to not pursue academic education (I am among those). Most
seems to be biased against those who have chosen the academic
path…

Andy

27

Well said Vernon.

I think it behooves all of us to continue to improve ourselves, to
share with the newbies when we can, and to be happy but continually
striving to do even better. For some of us, it is a little luck that
we found that crack in the door, for others they found the door
opening even wider when they approached because of their skills. All
we can do is constantly strive for improvement and never give up the
thought that we can “make it”. Thanks for a message that should
really give one pause in their thinking. Don’t know about you, but I
would personally rather enjoy my limited success while I am still
here. It would appear Vernon that you “arrived” and continue to
strive - way to go! And 65 is the perfect age as far as I’m concerned
(obviously I am older than that). Hang in there - there’s still a lot
of time left to cross new thresholds (this time more personal ones).

Kay Vontz

28

AMEN!!! Lots of questions to be answered, lets get a halleluiah for
Vernon and move on. Thomas III

29 
Schooling gives you a solid foundation, technique knowledge and a
base skill level.

It SHOULD do that. Often it doesn’t.

You can be taught things quickly from experienced people that on
your own would take much, much, much longer.

Agreed. Learning from someone who already knows is much more
efficient than figuring it out on your own. But there are many other
opportunities to learn from others besides school. And not everyone
is equal when it comes to teaching or learning. Getting good at
something is not just learning. Mastery comes with practice and
repetition.

Stephen Walker

30

Honestly it doesn’t matter as long as you make jewellery, you don’t
even have to sell it, just as long as you make it.

Who really cares how you get there as long as you get there?

31

Just a thought, No matter how we learned this medium, be it solo, at
the knee of a mentor, or formal education, shouldn’t we all be glad we
learned?

Aggie the old lady with attitude in FL.

32 
Who really cares how you get there as long as you get there?

Becoming a goldsmith is a knowledge gathering adventure. By saying "
who really cares " one makes an assumption that everybody makes this
trip in the same amount of time and collect the same amount of
knowledge. Well, this is not true. It takes much longer for some to
complete this trip, and some arrive at the destination half-empty.
Besides, there are few not making it at all, It depends on a route
that one chooses, equipment one carries, and preparedness one starts
with. So anybody contemplating going on such trip should care a great
deal.

Leonid Surpin

33

Thank you to those who have emailed me on quality bezel setting
instruction. It is my pleasure and privilege to pass on my skills.

Over 30 years ago I was privileged to have been trained by a master
silversmith and goldsmith. His aim in teaching was NOT to massage my
ego but to get me to work to the best of my ability.

It seems this was a waste of time because today any low grade tuition
or self tutoring will produce a master craftsman. And with these low
grade skills I could win International Jewellery competitions.

Oh by the way, I have sold in London, Paris, New York and Milan. My
work has appeared in Vogue, Mode, Cleo, Cosmopolitan magazines etc.
My work was also stocked by over 100 boutiques world wide.

I guess the hours of painstaking work I put in were a waste of time,
in todays jewellery world.

So I have been inspired. I have bought some cheap paint and a how to
paint by numbers book. Next week I will be the next Picasso,
Mondrian, Monet etc. LOL

For all you nay sayers of quality education look at Rene Lalique, a
true artist, and learn some humility.

Pretentious posts “Jewellery is art” and I should go back to what I
was doing before making jewellery. I don’t care how much jewellery
you have donated to low grade museums. Show me what you have donated
to the Louvre or Guggenheim, not there on display no surprise.

This webring is not about soothing egos but passing on quality
skills and if you can’t handle criticism do not go any where near an
atelier, the comments will probably make you want to hug a tree.

Newbies got a question post me I will give you HONEST advice to help
you progress.

TTFN
Richard

34

Thank you, Leonid, for an inspired offering. I have signed up to
follow your educational blog, as I value your insights and
experience - like many others on this blog.

I have often wondered why so many take umbrage at your brusque and
opinionated delivery without recognizing it for the character style
that it is. That is to say, not meant personally, simply a feature
of your character and therefor immutable.

I look forward to learning from you without the distracting personal
detours that accompany so many responses to your posts.

Blessings,
Sam Kaffine

35

This is a wonderful group of people from all sorts of backgrounds…
I just love this group and always have…

I love reading the tips people give others on how to improve their
skills.

I have taught in the past, once at the University of Wisconsin for a
summer special course on stone setting and 6 years in a prison in
Belize Central America, and will continue to teach, just not in a
classroom at this time of my life…

Those who do teach are good people and I have great respect for
them… They share their knowledge on a daily basis.

Most people I think have gotten the message I wanted to get out…
Thanks for your support and thoughts…

I do have one last thing to say… for the moment anyway…

Something I have learned doing volunteer work in Central America for
the last 14 years… " Blessed are the Flexible, For they shall not
be BENT out of shape". This gets me through a lot of situations I do
not quite understand and a lot of clients help me to bend and be
flexible :slight_smile:

Vernon Wilson

36 
Don't sweat it, learn what you can, and ignore the bad elements.

Well said Charles!!! I use to regularly contribute here but finally
got fed up with some of the huge egos that seemed to lash out at
people that gave their knowledge or opinions that were different than
theirs. After 40 years of being in this business I do believe I can
still learn something new and I follow Orchid everyday to further
educate myself but there are some people that I just no longer read
their posts no matter how much knowledge they have due to their lack
of respect to others. There is a great quote that says "No one cares
how much you know until they know how much you care "

Have a great day

Greg DeMark
natureinspiredjewelry.com

37

I began this thread for two reasons.

  1. Intrigued by the back and forth between many people about the
    importance of a formal jewelry education vs an education gained by
    practice I wondered if any or all of you thought the two routes were
    equally important? My conclusion? A formal education is a wonderful
    thing. It can jump start us into our career thanks to wonderful,
    patient teachers and our own adaptability. On the other hand,
    nothing, not even the best of educations can replace a willingness
    to learn in daily application.

  2. Orchid has never been a place where anyone ever felt that bashing
    anyone else in the group for a perceived lack of education a lack of
    experience or of knowledge was acceptable. There are many kinds of
    jewelry. Buyers prove again and again that just about anything that
    any of us can come up with is valid work. The world evolves. So does
    Jewelry and taste. So do we. Many of us here have grown sick and
    tired of supercilious bullying by a limited few which IMHO has no
    place on a site who’s fundamental premise is one of kindness,
    openness and sharing.

That said, I see clearly that the gentle point of remembering to be
polite and kind in our notes to each other here has soared
completely over the heads of those to whom the point was directed.
So I will say it more bluntly: Superiority through gripping onto a
degree, long years of experience or a clear lack of manners is
unacceptable. Stop it. You may have been doing something for 40
years, but there is also the possibility you have been doing it
wrong. Many of us here learn quite a bit from beginners. If you
weren’t quite so sure of yourselves you might learn something too.
Not a bad idea.

For all Orchidians: Thank you for so generously sharing your worlds
here on Orchid. Your educations, lack of education, degrees, life
experiences and how you got to where you are. I am fascinated,
amazed and in awe of all of your stories.

For those of you who can’t manage to find your manners I leave you
with one of my favorite quotes from a movie called “Harvey”:

“Years ago, my mother used to say to me, she’d say “In this world,
Elwood, you can be oh so so smart, or oh so pleasant.” Well, for
years I was smart… I recommend pleasant.” - Elwood P. Dowd.

And with that I would ask Hanuman to please be kind enough to close
this thread. At this point the thread seems to be going backwards
and Orchid has always leaned forward.

-Lisa (Couldn’t find the puppy Lily anywhere. I finally found her
sitting very happily in the cage with the bunny. The bunny seemed
completely nonplussed.) Topanga, CA USA

38

Lisa,

Late into this thread, perfectly understand both what you say, and
where you are coming from. I personally do not have a degree. What I
do have is years of defining for myself, what I find appealing and
appreciate.This is and has always been hand and culture created
jewelry. It is both fine and unrefined. The Filigree I saw in many
countries, all different and all beautiful. The Niello from
Thailand, the Granulation throughout the Middle East, the clean
lines of Scandinavian silver, the Hill Tribe Chest pieces, Bali
Beads. Closest to my heart Naive American.

It was no surprise that I gravitated to hand fabricated organic
pieces. Took to rock field trips and followed with lapidary. Love to
move metal with fire and more recently with hammers.

My learning came from many extraordinary instructors workshops, and
I take them any chance I have. I so respect the traveling teacher
who leaves the comfort of his/her own home, studio, bed and family
to travel to distant cities to share their talents with others. I
thank them all. Some of them have degrees and others do not. All
have extensively studied the craft they excel within. They also
continue to refine their skills. OTOH, I have seen teachers who are
so locked into what they originally were taught during their college
days, shun new methods, rigidly hold onto what they are familiar
with and shut out all others. Arrogant and demeaning, speaking
poorly of “competitors.” For them, IMHO, no hope.

The creativity comes from within, the design sense developed from
open eyes and minds. Orchid opened up the opportunity to share and
care. Many have given to and benefited from participation on Orchid.
Differences of techniques and ideas are for the most part expressed
politely and claws are sheathed. The few, over the years who are
bullies by nature, neither prevail, nor survive.

Yes we may see the world differently. I may declare it day, it is
for me, around the globe, for them it is night. We both are right.
Integrity, ethics, kindness, sharing and caring are within. I
personally prefer and enjoy those virtues, and that is really what
matters. With those, I wish you all the success you can find, all
the customers you wish, the best of designs, and the life you wish
to live.

Hugs,
Terrie

39

Hi Leonid,

Who really cares how you get there as long as you get there?

You draw strange conclusions from my statement, and it’s totally
wrong btw… Did anyone else draw the same conclusions with regard to
my intent as Leonid did?

That aside.

The point is I come from several dying crafts, leather work and
blacksmithing, no one wants to learn these crafts they just want to
pay me money. I’ve offered free tuition, and support, but now one
wants to learn.

I’m just happy if people make jewellery, for me it doesn’t matter
how they learn just as long as they make.

Regards Charles A.

40 
The point is I come from several dying crafts, leather work and
blacksmithing, no one wants to learn these crafts they just want
to pay me money. I've offered free tuition, and support, but now
one wants to learn.

That is a sad comment. I can’t imagine not wanting to learn,
especially with the offer of free tuition from an accomplished
craftsman or crasftswoman, if the opportunity is there. Even if the
craft is not one you intend to really focus on in the future, skills
you learn in any field help you in ways you never expect down the
road in others. I can not see ever walking away from a chance to
develop an new skill. Maybe it is a generational thing, as I am no
young pup, but were I or any other young students I used to know
offered the chance to learn blacksmithing, or even leather working
skills (especially an offer of free tuition), in our youth we would
have jumped at the chance!