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[4Sale] Sander-Protoype


#1

Are there any Orchid Subsribers Using the "Sanders-Prototype"
3-D wax machine. I have seen a few different manufacturers
machines. This one sounds like the best so far. It 's a Large
investment but I would like to talk with a someone who is daily
using one before I purchase.

I’ve seen the Art2PART system at the Vegas show, if it works
like the other Model Master product it’s not worth the money.
(any Orchid memeber like to buy a slightly used Model Master?)

Charles Eichhorn


#2

Hi I run the Rapid Prototyping lab at Loyola Marymount Unv. in
Los Angeles. I have a Sanders machine and a Stratasys machine.I
would be happy to share my experience with you. Sue


#3

PS. I have a slightly used Modelmaster system I wouldn’t mind
getting rid of myself. Too small for a boat anchor, too large
for a paperweight, and my hippie days of groovin’ on blue lights
are far in the past. Anybody interested, I’ll listen to an
offer.


#4

The original Modelmaster photosensitive polymer system was junk,
and still is (in my opinion), but the Modelmaster 3D engraving
system is pretty good, at least mine is. The learning curve is
much more than advertised, and it doesn’t do what the Sanders
system does. Still, I’ve gotten pretty impressive results from
my Art2Part system. I’ve done things not doable by hand, and
I’ve made money with it. I haven’t recovered my initial
investment, but I’m working on that, too. As far as being worth
the money, what is in this business? I guess it all depends on
what you intend to make with the equipment. From what I’ve seen
and learned about the Sanders system, you need pretty deep
pockets for a while till you get a firm grip on things. Don’t
expect people to come rushing to your door, either, just because
you have the system.

My two cents’ worth.


#5

Chuck, I have a Sanders prototyping machine and will be glad to
offer any assistance on the matter. Best Regards. Neil George
954-572-5829


#6

Try QVC, Mathew Parks
AM Gold, Ed Yosevitz 917-748-9885
Giovanni, Paul Burr 401-273-7750 x110
Michael Anthony, Jack Syrek
etc, etc


#7

I would be interested in additional such as how long
have you had the machine is this the latest modelmaker or is it a
rebuilt unit. How much are you asking for it. Could I come take a
look? Thanks Ed Katz, @Ed_Katz


#8

Aufin, I am interested in your model master machine. Now I know
the system is rather expensive, and I am not willing to pay
anything near the orignial price. Not trying to offend, but you
asked if anyone would be intested. Scott 615-481-7970
@Scott_Isaacs


#9

I’ve had the Art2Part system for almost a year. I just finished
an article for AJM on my search for a CAD/CAM system, it will be
in the Feb. issue. The Sanders unit was more than I could afford,
and really needs to be run full time to make money, which
probably means full time programmers. The Art2 Part milling
machine has increased my model output, and does pay for itself.

Richard D. Hamilton
A goldsmith on Martha’s Vineyard
Fabricated 14k, 18k, 22k, and platinum Jewelry
wax carving, modelmaking, jewelry photography,
CAD/CAM…
http://www.rick-hamilton.com


#10

Hey guys, I am hust wondering why you all hate the Model Master
so bad?? Bad results? or just the fact that you can only do one
level at a time?? I get extremely sharpe detail with mine, but
the fact that you can only do a single leveled piece is a
drawback… Now keep in mind, I only use the model master for
doing lettering, and I am not trying to make class ring sort of
pieces with it…flat things only… But I am curious to hear what
kind of bad things you guys found… I looked into all of the CNC
modeling machines and just found that in the time it takes to
design, program and then acutlly cut the model out using the
equipment, I could have done 2 or 3 models in wax by hand… Once
again, let me state, the models I am doing have no lettering,
such what you see on class rings and that sort of thing, but
doing anythingelse I just as soon do it by hand… any thoughts??
Marc Williams,


#11

If you guys would take the time to read the original post (and
reply) properly, you would be able to determine that all
Modelmaster systems are NOT the CNC system.

The original system marketed by Modelmaster was a box with an
ultraviolet light in which one would put in a piece of
photosensitive polymer along with a piece of transparency on
which is printed a black image of an article to be produced.
After proper exposure to the UV light, the polymer could be
washed and the image would be left to use for casting directly
or mold making. An oversimplification of the process, but that
was the idea. The results I got was marginal, at best. I’m
sure with much trial and error, one could get passable results,
but I didn’t want to spend the time and resources. So, mine is
now somewhere in a box. The idea is still a good one for doing
a basic design on a shoestring. One could get a 3D image, but
without a lot of definition. The subtle lines and depth details
can be added later by hand. A basic flat logo type pin with
text will come out OK, but I wanted more.

Modelmaster got more (much) of my money later when I bought
their CNC system. Much pleased with this system. Been working
with it for almost 2 years, now. Still hasn’t paid for itself,
yet, but that’s another story. Working on solving that issue as
well. I’m no CNC guru by a long shot, but if I can be of
service to anyone out there with an idea you can’t produce
easily by hand, such as logos, Celtic stuff, etc., I’d be happy
to give it a shot.

Maybe now I’ll stop getting emails from people wanting to buy my
CNC system. :slight_smile: It Ain’t For Sale, Guys. 'Course, I’ll listen
to any reasonable offer from anyone with a desire to try their
hand at the original Modelmaster photosensitive polymer system.


#12

The Sanders ModelMaker is the printer from your CAD workstation.
Whether you’re using the Model Master or the ModelMaker, both
reduces cost and dependence on hand carved models.

CAD enables quick response to customer changes before carving
wax or casting precious metal.

CAD allows the exploration of multiple custom design variations
without carving wax.

Share photo realistic visualization of the design to your
customer.

Recreate popular designs mithout rubber molds.

Save jewelry design features in a library for reuse later.

Work with international clients or offshore manufacturers thru
email and the internet.

The biggest challenge in this industry is whether we can
convince the jewelry designer that CAD/CAM can vastly improve
their design and manufacturing process. Teaching a trained hand
craftsman to drop their wax carving tools and pick up a computer
mouse is the greatest challenge of all.

With CAD/CAM, models that are difficult or impossible to carve
by hand are easy to create with CAD/CAM. With CAD/CAM jewelers
are able to create precise symmetry, invisible settings, pave
settings, in addition to design feature reuse, design
visualization and sharing.

The two technologies ModelMaker and ModelMaster (CNC) are not
viable alternatives. It depends what you want to do. CNC cannot
perform difficult undercuts and hollow shapes required to lighten
and reduce the amount of precious metal in jewelry. The Sanders
ModelMaker doesn’t care what you design, it builds anything.

Something everyone seems to missing, The Sanders ModelMaker
doesn’t require a skilled technician to run. We’re not creating
tool paths, the software takes a design and builds it. We’ve
stated that this machine costs approx $1500 per month and pays
for itself between 5 months and 2 years, depending on your use.
In any case if you were doing 3 models per day, you would have
saved nearly $1 million in the five years you were paying off the
lease.

We’re selling this machine because it is doing the job.
Companies are buying 2 and 3 of them.

Regards,
Rolf


#13

Aloha Chuck, First let me introduce myself. My name is Christian
Grunewald, a classically trained modelmaker / bench monkey (of
27 years). I was a end-user of these advanced technologies, way
before I became a dealer. I am an Independent Technical
Representative / Trainer for Model Master and a Technical
Education Representative for MasterCAM / Techno-Isel (for the
state of Hawaii). We sell CNC mills, Plunge EDM’s, 3D scanners,
Plastic injectors, Lasers and Sanders Rapid Prototyping
equipment to name a few. Model Master has no less than 300+
Art2Part systems, worldwide, (15 in Hawaii) with little or no
complaints. Sanders Machines are shaking up the industry. These
technologies require an attention to detail and a dedication to
the task. We stand by our products, 110%.

I am so sorry to hear you have had a problem with our product.
The Model Master photo-etch system is a very easy to use
solution. As with any process or technique, the process requires
you follow the prescribed instruction. In the case of this
system, the artwork and exposure times are critical. Basically,
if you have poor artwork or exposure times (over or under), the
result will be less than exceptable. Model Master has in excess
of 6 Technical support people to help you with you problems. We
document all conversations and tech support issues to support
and help customers with similar problems. (For example, we had a
person call us with a technical problem, tried to talk them thru
the problem and even ask that they send the artwork, to do the
job, so we could look at the art and report back what we did to
do the job, But they never followed through to let us help them,
Sound Familiar?)

If I can answer any questions about the Art2Part CNC milling
solutions or Sanders Rapid Prototyping Technology, Please feel
free to call me directly. To you and all others, we will be at
the JCK Orlando, Florida show, January 28, 29, and 30th. We (I
will be there as well) will be at the SWEST, Frie Borel, and
M2-Ssystems booths (John Mastoloni). Sanders will also be at
several booths. Please come by and say hello. Good luck in your
endeavors and Happy New Year.

Best Regards,
Christian Grunewald
Precision Modelmaking Technologies
Hawaii
(808) 622-9005
(808) 224-1115 Mobile / Cellular


#14

Edwin, he’s not selling an MM-II. Sanders is now talking to
many jewelers specifically for sharing a system. This is called
a consortium, where many users share a machine. Let us know if
you are interested. Rolf


#15
The Sanders ModelMaker is the printer from your CAD workstation.
Whether you're using the Model Master or the ModelMaker, both
reduces cost and dependence on hand carved models.

Okay, I’m ready to jump into this one (swinging screaming cat
over my head).

First, CNC milling technologies have been around for a while.
What we’re seeing here is CNC with a more “user friendly” front
end software. I haven’t priced stuff for other industries, but
I would like to see what equivalent technologies for other
industries are costing, seeing how the only ones who pay more
for tools of their trade that jewelers are medical/dental
people. I seriously doubt that this will pay for itself
unless you’re doing a lot of corporate jewelry like “class
rings”. I wonder if this technology will live up to peoples
expectations. These, like EDM and ultrasonic carving
technologies are powerful tools in the hands of the right
people, but if anyone thinks this is the shortcut you’ve all
been waiting for to being able to carve waxes like a master
artisan, well, I’m sorry to disappoint you. It takes years of
schooling and practice, and it doesn’t hurt to have some talent,
either. And there are people out there who have so little
understanding of what is involved in such work that they will
blow their money on these machines, then wonder why their
neophyte bench person can’t turn out waxes like the pros. Now,
as for the Model Master. . .about once or twice a year, I get a
call from someone to do some kind of flat logo, like a company
letterhead/tie tack or a golf-ball marker with the resort name
and emblem on it, etc. When I do, I send a black and white
image to a company that does photo-engraving, and they send me
back the metal plate, from which I make a rubber mold. Costs me
about $10-20 plus postage. I almost always get perfect results.
If I don’t, it’s something I did wrong in the graphic. Not
worth the investment for me. I’d love to play around with the
CNC stuff, but I don’t have 20 grand to experiment with. If I
did, it’d go towards a laser.

David L. Huffman, tool nut, but not too nutty, thank you.


#16

Chuck, Hand carving wax models is a very expensive and a labor
intensive process and requires many years of training and
practice to develop the skills of a master model maker. The
implementation of CAD/CAM and the Sanders ModelMaker-II is
revolutionizing the jewelry industry because it automates the
model making process. According to JCK magazine magazine the
overall retail spending for jewelry for 1998 was $1.9 trillion
and only 2% of jewelers currently use a computer for design. Hmm?

Why are Jewelers buying CAD/CAM now?

  1. Jewelers have a great need for CAD/CAM . 2. 3D software is now
    much easier to use. Thanks to Windows CAD/CAM software. 3. 3D
    software has dropped in price. 4. 3D graphics computers has
    dropped in price. Thanks to the Intel processors, Windows
    operating system, and strong competition between PC
    manufacturers. 5. Precise, accurate 3D model makers are now
    available. Thanks to Sanders Prototype, Inc.

Jewelry Design Seminars

Jewelry design seminars are fun and productive because jewelry
designers sense that CAD/CAM is the future for their industry and
they need to learn more in order to stay competitive. CAD/CAM is
new to jewelers, and it is important for the industry to find out
more. Seminars are being conducted everywhere, contact us to
find out when we’ll have one near you. At the seminars you will
learn how to:

  1. Designing jewelry with precise 3D geometry. 2. Jewelry design
    reuse with templates and libraries. 3. Copying repeated design
    features. 4. Reducing precious metal with thin wall features. 5.
    Creating precise design symmetry. 6. Scaling and resizing
    designs. 7. Advanced 3D design visualization and rendering
    techniques. 8. Sharing jewelry design with customers and quickly
    responding to changes. 9. Automated model making with Sanders
    ModelMaker-II 10. Surface quality verses build time 11. Nesting
    and building multiple jewelry models 12. Preparing jewelry models
    for casting 13. Reduce costs 14. Improve quality 15. Design faster
  2. Competitive advantage 17. Cost to get started

Hundreds of Jewelers worldwide are already experiencing the many
benefits of CAD/CAM technology.

Find out about a seminar near you or go to one of the many
jewelry shows.

Sanders is a successful supplier to the jewelry industry. We
have demonstrated how it will improve productivity as well as
save you thousands of dollars. We have demonstrated a tremendous
savings on a monthly lease of approx. $1550 per month. We can
demonstrate that the system can pay off in less than 6 months
while giving back hundreds of thousands of dollars during your
lease payments.

Give us a call, send me an email, but do something, the
technology is here and it will only benefit your profits.

Regards,
Rolf Hubert
Industry Marketing Consultant
Sanders Prototype, Inc.
603-429-9700 x222
www.polygon.net/~71576
www.sanders-prototype.com


#17

Rolf, My name is Scott and I am a bench jeweler in Nashville, Tn.
About 4 months ago I purchased a Model Master Cad/Cam Cnc
system. I am making money with it but no matter how hard I try I
cannot find info about this new technology to our industry.
Seminars sound great and if you can forward any information
whether it be now or in the future, it would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks, Castgold@home.com


#18

Why don’t you go to a seminar, it doesn’t cost anything. You
have absolutely no idea what the technology can do for you. I
have suggested many times, get a CAD program and try it. You
weren’t born as a master model maker, it took training and
practice. I can guarantee you, the training for CAD is much
less.

Sanders can train you to use a new set of tools in 3 days. Then
it is up to you to practice and within 3 months you could be an
expert. Of course you still need to be an artist and it
certainly helps that you are a modelmaker.

We’re certainly not talking about making a stick pin, we’re
talking about making anything automatically, overnight!

Rolf


#19

Scott, please let me know where you are located and I’ll
certainly make sure you get invited to one of the seminars. If
you plan to go to the Orlando show at the end of January, we’ll
be in the technology center at both the B&D and ModelMaster
booths. ModelMaster also sells our equipment.

Check out www.polygon.net/~71576 for some of the designs that
have been created on CAD and built on the ModelMaker. Also from
this site you can transfer to the Sanders site and see what the
technology is all about. If you get the Professional Jeweler,
Jan 2000 issue, a very interesting article written by a jeweler
using the Sanders equipment.

Hope to talk to you soon.
Regards,
Rolf Hubert
Sanders Prototype, Inc.
603-429-9700