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3M Micro Finishing Discs Oddities


#1

I started using the snap-disc sanders, but wasn’t wild about the
metal hub that kept dinking up my work, so I bought some of the 3 M
micro finishing discs and have been trying them out. I’m finding some
oddities and wondered if anyone had any suggestions or comments -

The mandrels that you use with them have a pretty sturdy rubber
base, and it is hard to get any flex out of them to polish in tighter
places. Has anyone found other mandrels for these adhesive discs that
are closer in flexibility to the sand paper snap-discs?

Also - when I have used one for a bit of time (at one sitting) the
adhesive heats up and the disc moves around, which lets the rubber
mandrel come in contact with the work and it leaves black boo-boos
(removable, but annoying, and it kind of stays stickier than when
originally applied). Any solutions, other than stop and start
polishing? It really doesn’t take very long at all to get the
adhesive to soften.

I’m open to other brands, etc - just want finer sanding capability
than offered by the snap discs and no metal hub.

thanks
Ivy


#2

I ran into this myself. Epoxy a 3M disc onto a snap-on disc. Use a
very thin layer of epoxy and allow to dry for an hour or so.
Overnight is plenty of time. I assemble a dozen or so at a time using
different grade discs. So far they have worked fine.

Happy sanding,
Michael


#3

Hi Ivy. There is one, but I don’t think they make them any more. 3M
called it Rol-loc. It had a base piece that fit in the flexshaft and
had a stubby plastic screw sticking up. This screwed into a
multi-layer foam head to which the discs were stuck. It had lots of
flexibility and worked great. I bought a few when I learned they
were going to stop making them and I’ve been hoarding them- they do
tend to wear out. 3M’s whole line of small pressure sensitive
adheshive (PSA) discs are are just fantastic- I use them a LOT!

Allan Mason
www.silvermason.com


#4
when I have used one for a bit of time (at one sitting) the
adhesive heats up and the disc moves around, which lets the rubber
mandrel come in contact with the work and it leaves black boo-boos
(removable, but annoying, and it kind of stays stickier than when
originally applied). Any solutions, other than stop and start
polishing? It really doesn't take very long at all to get the
adhesive to soften. 

The Microfinishing discs are designed to run without heating up the
adhesive rubber to the point were it begins to melt. However, many
Flex-shafts and Micromotors can run at extremely fast speeds. The
basic solution to this is to run them at a slower speed. They should
still be quite effective and the adhesive should not melt.

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
Fine Jewelry & Creative Supplies
www.mckinnonglobal.com


#5
There is one, but I don't think they make them any more. 3M called
it Rol-loc. It had a base piece that fit in the flexshaft and had a
stubby plastic screw sticking up. This screwed into a multi-layer
foam head to which the discs were stuck. It had lots of flexibility
and worked great. I bought a few when I learned they were going to
stop making them and I've been hoarding them- they do tend to wear
out. 3M's whole line of small pressure sensitive adheshive (PSA)
discs are are just fantastic- I use them a LOT! 

3M™ will never get rid of the Roloc™ discs as they are the
mainstay of the automotive Repair industry.

There are lots of type of roloc available including regular sanding
discs, Scotch-Brite™ Roloc Bristle Discs and Roloc Surface
Conditioning Discs (made with Scotch-Brite material).

The catch here is that the Roloc shaft is 1/4" in diameter.
Therefore, you must use a tool that can accept a shaft that large.

As you may know, we sell all 3M products from sandpaper to 3M
Post-it™ Note so if you want more info, please give us a call and
we can discuss. Thanks.

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
Fine Jewelry & Creative Supplies
www.mckinnonglobal.com


#6
3M(TM) will never get rid of the Roloc(TM) discs as they are the
mainstay of the automotive Repair >industry. 

But I’m guessing that the automotive systems are not practical on a
jeweler’s scale. The ones I referred to are the 1" PSA disc size,
and I think they have stopped making the Roloc systems for that size.
By the way, I got my previous description a little backwards- the
stubby plastic screw is on the disc-holding head, not on the half
that fits in the flexshaft.

On the subject of the 1" discs, 3M recently made a great product
even better. The discs used to come loose in a bag, but now they
switched to a very convenient little sheet that holds 10 peel-off
discs. It’s much nicer, easier to find on my bench, and eliminates
the balky tab method they previously used to peel the back off. I’m
serious, folks, if you’ve never tried these beauties, you really owe
yourself a trial. Even without the Roloc head, they’re fantastic. I’m
just a highly satisfied customer!

Allan Mason
www.silvermason.com


#7

Hi Ivy,

Sellotape make a double adhesive sided foam strip. you can stick
this down to a piece of waxed paper and then stamp out 1" circles
with a wadding punch (which you can also stamp out sandpaper circles
with, to use up those corners of sheets). Don’t know how long the
glue
will last before it softens but it gives more flex and a couple of mm
gap before you get to the black rubber.

regards Tim.


#8
But I'm guessing that the automotive systems are not practical on a
jeweler's scale. The ones I referred to are the 1" PSA disc size,
and I think they have stopped making the Roloc systems for that
size. By the way, I got my previous description a little backwards-
the stubby plastic screw is on the disc-holding head, not on the
half that fits in the flexshaft. 

Sorry to take so long to get back on this one. I’ve been busy
getting the website re-organized and adding a bunch of products.
Here’s what I found out about the ROLOC (twist-on) microfinishing
discs. As you mentioned, they are no longer available from 3M in any
size. However, there is another 3M ROLOC product that is available in
the 1" Size. Instead of microfinishing film, the product is called
Trizact.

For those that haven’t tried Trizact, it’s an engineered
micro-replicated abrasive that is very consistent and effective. It
looks more like a screen mesh than sandpaper. The finest grade is A6
or 2500 Grit so it does not get as quite as fine as the
microfinishing film. 3M sells this product to some pretty picky
customers including Harley-Davidson for their motorcycles. It works
very well and, again, requires no additional chemicals.

If there was enough demand, we would go ahead and stock the ROLOC
from of Trizact, but people would have to let me know if they were
interested. Right now, we do sell the very same Trizact in little
bands and discs by the grade or in kits.

Finally, since this discussion started, we are working on a way to
provide the ROLOC Microfinishing Discs once again. We’ll keep you up
to date on this via our newsletter.

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
Fine Jewelry & Creative Supplies
www.mckinnonglobal.com


#9
However, there is another 3M ROLOC product that is available in
the 1" Size. Instead of microfinishing film, the product is called
Trizact. If there was enough demand, we would >go ahead and stock
the ROLOC form of Trizact 

Michael- I love Trizact in the band form for a drum mandrel, but
didn’t realize it came in 1" discs. Does it have pressure-sensitive
adhesive (PSA) on the back? In any case, this wouldn’t be exclusive
to the Roloc system, which is a 2-part mandrel with a 2-level foam
head to which the discs are adhered. This is softer and more
conformable than the harder rubber mandrel still available for the 1"
discs. If you’re contemplating carrying the discs, you wouldn’t need
the Roloc system for the discs to be very usable.

Allan Mason


#10

Hi Michael -

I’d likely be interested in the Trizact - I was reading up on it and
like how it sounds. How is it affixed to the mandrel - do you know?
The glue on the Micro Finishing Disks gives me a problem, and I’d
like something less fragile - velcro or something like the old ROLOC
(if I’m thinking of the right thing)

Ivy S. Fasko
Contemporary Handcrafted Jewelry
http://www.ivysfasko.com


#11

Hi Allan,

I love Trizact in the band form for a drum mandrel, but didn't
realize it came in 1" discs. Does it have pressure-sensitive
adhesive (PSA) on the back? In any case, this wouldn't be exclusive
to the Roloc system, which is a 2-part mandrel with a 2-level foam
head to which the discs are adhered. This is softer and more
conformable than the harder rubber mandrel still available for the
1" discs. If you're contemplating carrying the discs, you wouldn't
need the Roloc system for the discs to be very usable.

Yes, The good news is that we already carry the Trizact discs with
the PSA adhesive backing. In fact, we have a kit on the website under
the “Kits for Jewelry” Section that contains 7/8" discs in several
grades and includes the mandrel ($14). What is not on the website yet
we still carry them are the individual PSA discs in either 7/8" or
1". You can get 100 of any grade for a very minimal price but you
would have to call for these because it will probably be another week
before the individual grades are put on the website.

A little more on the Trizact:

The kind of Trizact that we are both talking about is the Trizact
EA, the gray Triact that has a wide range of grades (grits). Note
that there is also another type of Trizact. It is the Trizact CF, the
green trizact. This form is much more coarse, has a rough texture and
is meant for more aggressive application. The selling point of this
product is that it is supposed to take down metal and polish at the
same time. Thought you might want to know in case you went to the
website because you will see both forms.

Web Reference:

http://tinyurl.com/2a3733

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
1-800-452-4816
www.mckinnonglobal.com


#12

Hi Ivy and those following this thread:

I'd likely be interested in the Trizact - I was reading up on it
and like how it sounds. How is it affixed to the mandrel - do you
know? The glue on the Micro Finishing Disks gives me a problem, and
I'd like something less fragile - velcro or something like the old
ROLOC (if I'm thinking of the right thing) 

One correction from my previous note. The 7/8" Trizact discs on
the website are the ones that mount on a mandrel not the PSA form.
However, we do carry a 1" PSA kit and that product is not on the
website. Anybody out there that wants either the kit or the
individual discs in PSA can get them by calling. We’ll put them on
the website in the next week.
*

Now on to the matter at hand. 3M does sell the 1" Roloc version of
the Trizact discs. We have not stocked them to date. However, if
there are enough people interested in buying them (people can either
call or e-mail directly), we will put together a 1" Roloc Kit and
offer the individual grades. So Ivy and others, please let me know if
you wan this. Currently, there is no Hookit (velcro) option for these
discs.

By the way,

Common Trizact EA Grit equivalents aRe: 200, 280, 400, 600, 1200 and
2500.

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
1-800-452-4816
www.mckinnonglobal.com


#13
3M does sell the 1" Roloc version of the Trizact discs. 

Hi Michael. Thanks for all the info on Trizact, but I’m still
confused as to what you mean by “Roloc version”. If you are simply
referring to a 1" PSA disc, then it has nothing to do with Roloc per
se, and the discs would fit any mandrel made to fit those discs.
Since the 1" Roloc mandrel is no longer made, it seems needlessly
confusing to refer to them. I do want to try the 1" Trizact discs
though.

Allan Mason


#14

Hi Allan,

I'm still confused as to what you mean by "Roloc version". If you
are simply referring to a 1" PSA disc, then it has nothing to do
with Roloc per se, and the discs would fit any mandrel made to fit
those discs. Since the 1" Roloc mandrel is no longer made, it seems
needlessly confusing to refer to them. I do want to try the 1"
Trizact discs though. 

3M has several types of attachment systems and it can be quite
confusing. The point of all of these attachment systems is to make is
easier to attach or remove a disc. Let me explain:

  1. PSA Backing - Disc with a sticky backing. Peel of the film on the
    back of the disc and stick it to the rubber mandrel.

  2. Hook and Loop - Same concept as Velcro. 3M doesn’t use the Velcro
    name because it has a trademark. One side is hooks and the other is
    fuzzy. The discs always come with the fuzzy material.

  3. Dual-Lock - This is fairly new and similar to the Hook and Loop.
    However, both sides are exactly the same. The bond is much stronger
    than Hook and Loop. It is also much more versatile because Dual-Lock
    can also stick to the either side of the Hook and Look. We sell
    strips of this material, with a sticky backing, by the yard and
    people cut it up and stick it to the back of whatever they want.
    Currently, we don’t offer any discs made with this material, but we
    may give it a try should there be enough call for it. Ultimately,
    this might end up being the best solution for a disc backing.

  4. Roloc - This refers to a system developed by the Surface
    Conditioning Division at 3M. If you spell Roloc backwards, you can
    see where the name came from. This system uses color coded discs so
    you can discern the aggressiveness of any particular disc. The
    attachment system that was built for this is as follows. Take a
    normal disc and on the back center of that disc is a plastic screw.
    The holder is a rubber mandrel that accepts the screw. It is very
    easy to just screw the disc on or off. It screws on in less than one
    turn.

These are extremely popular in the automotive and airline maintenance
industries. 3M sell millions upon millions per year-mostly in the
Bristle Disc (in this case the Bristle-Disc is not the Radial Bristle
Disc, it looks more like a hairbrush) and Scotch-Brite disc forms.
The only problem with these for the creative arts is that the
smallest they come is that with a shaft of 1/4" in diameter which may
make it hard to use with lots of tools out there. As we have
discussed earlier in this forum, you can’t get these in
Microfinishing Film anymore but you can get them in the Trizact form.
Since this would be an new investment for us to carry these, I have
requested that people let me know if they are interested. If we have
enough demand, we will introduce the little Trizact Roloc Discs.

Hopefully, this was helpful. Let me know if I can clarify further
(note that we just added this question and answer to our FAQ’s on our
website).

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
Fine Jewelry & Creative Supplies
1-800-452-4816
www.mckinnonglobal.com


#15
If we have enough demand, we will introduce the little Trizact
Roloc Discs. 

Michael- Jeez, I hope I’m not being dense on this, but I still don’t
get it. Are you referring to a 1" PSA Trizact disc? And if they don’t
make the Roloc fixture in that size any more, what is a Trizact Roloc
Disc? Apologies and thanks!

Allan Mason


#16
Michael- Jeez, I hope I'm not being dense on this, but I still
don't get it. Are you referring to a 1" PSA Trizact disc? And if
they don't make the Roloc fixture in that size any more, what is a
Trizact Roloc Disc? Apologies and thanks! 

I didn’t see this one until today so this is a delayed response. Let
me break it down this way:

Products:

  1. 3M Microfinishing Discs, PSA (sticky)- Still sold. Just press
    them on the little 1" backup pad mandrel made to accept these discs
    (mandrel comes with the starter kit or can be ordered separately).

  2. 3M Microfinishing Discs, Roloc Attachment Version - Discontinued.
    These would screw into a little 1" backup pad specifically made to
    take the screw that is attached to the abrasive. Same abrasive as
    above.

  3. 3M Trizact Discs, PSA (Sticky). Still sold. Same concept as the
    PSA Microfinishing Discs above. Kits sold on our website.

  4. 3M Trizact Discs, Roloc Attachment Version. Still sold but custom
    Made by 3M. Same screw as above attached to little Trizact Discs. We
    do not stock because of the large minimum quantity requirement. If we
    felt that we could sell these at a reasonable pace, we would stock
    them. Same Trizact abrasive-different attachment system.

Hope that helps!

Michael McKinnon
McKinnon Global, LLC
Fine Jewelry & Creative Supplies
www.mckinnonglobal.com